Interview with Mary Coy, May 2, 1989

Teka Ward:Today is May 2, 1989. My name is Teka Ward. I’m with Mary Coy. We are at 820 Perennial Drive, Louisville Kentucky. Our topic is Actors Theatre of Louisville.

Mary, you served as first Executive Secretary, and then receptionist, for Actors Theatre.

Mary Coy:Yes, that’s right.

TW:But, as we begin, tell a little about your background.

MC:OK. Well, I was a war bride, of course, and I came from Kokomo, Indiana, which was my husband’s home town, to Louisville. And I want to tell you that the culture shock is much worse if you come from a large cosmopolitan city to a little tiny town in the Midwest. It was awful. But I had three sons and one was born in England, the oldest one. I was glad when my husband was transferred to Louisville. 1:00So, then I had to find work. However, that was the time of Kennedy and I said that he was too young to be President and I was told I was too old to be typing. We were both in our early forties- mid-forties.

TW:When you went looking for a MC:So see, it was difficult for- I was lucky I got a job with Strassels, about five years. They were very good to me, especially Mrs. Mendle. Then I got so hot every summer—I hate heat, I loathe it—and I got a job at Actors Theatre and I’d always been interested in theatre: it was supposed to be seasonal. You didn’t work in the long hot summer. So I went and interviewed, and I was interviewed by Bryan, Bryan Clark, and got the job. Course 2:00it turns out they were busier in the summer than any other time. And in that old theatre, in the office anyway, there was no air conditioning. There was a fan just above me, but it only had two of the things—fins or whatever you want to call them—that riddled and rattled and I thought, “I know the damn things are going to fall on my head.” However, I loved it there. So, I worked there with Richard and all these actors at that time.

TW:This was in 1966.

MC:Was it? Ok. If you say so.

TW:So you were there in the very early days of the theatre.

MC:Yes, I was. I be there at the beginning of the second season, and I was not there for the very early when they weren’t even in the radi- in the station. You’d have to go somewhere else for that.

TW:Did you see any of the performances before you went to interview for the job?

MC:Yes, that’s what made me take it. I saw Ned Beatty in “Death of a Salesman,”—or 3:00was it “All My Sons”?—one of them. And he was so good, and the whole ensemble was good—much better than I had expected. That was the end of that season. That was why, when this came up I jumped at the chance to try and get the job. Still thinking it was seasonal.

TW:You saw an ad in the newspaper. Right?

MC:Yes. Actually that’s- Yes.

TW:So, continue with the interview process, that Bryan Clark interviewed you. Where?

MC:Well, in the old railroad station, up in the office where I was to work, which was a large room right in the front with a great big window that looked out on to a little green part, and very decrepit. But I was getting all excited, you know, because I do love theatre. 4:00And he interviewed me there, then Richard interviewed me, because I’d be working for him, of course.

TW:The same day?

MC:Yeah. Then they told me I could start.

TW:That very day?

MC:Well, I forget. I think it was a week later, probably. But I remember, the hours were supposed to be nine to five. And I had to leave at five every day because my husband used to pick me up and you know, he wasn’t going to wait outside. Oh, and that car was so hot [unintelligible] he worked for Ohio oil company, Marathon. So remember Sandy Speer was box office manager at that time, saying, ‘”How can you get away at five?” And I said, “I’ve got to, and I always will. I don’t care what happens, I’ve got to go, I’ve got three kids and I’ve got to get supper,” and so on. So, nine to five, and I was never late. And 5:00it was hot. I thought I’d really got out of the frying pan and into the fire. When it comes to heat, however, I was younger and [unintelligible] then. So, what do you want to know now.

TW:What was a typical day like?MC:Oh, well, you got there and there was always something to do and people comin’ in and long long phone calls and Richard would dictate and so on, you know, just like an office is.

TW:Who do you remember, about some of the people? Well, actually, before we do that what we should do is get you to identify, because that would be a way of discussing the people you remember. What we have here is a calendar, which first appeared- it’s a picture on a calendar, and it first appeared in- as a calendar which was being sold, but we also have it in the twenty-fifth anniversary booklet that Actors Theatre put out.

MC:Well, how do you want me to start? 6:00If you start from the left, that’s me. Lady Muck. On the ground beside me is Lenny Baker, who in my opinion was one of the best actors I have ever seen anywhere. He was just a Journeyman. I don’t think they have them anymore. But he was great. He died. He died of cancer of the larynx. After he left Actors Theatre he did two or three movies, you know. And was on TV and was going great guns, and then he died, which was very very sad. And then there’s Jack Johnson next to him. And then there’s- I think that’s Lucy Paris, but I’m not sure. Then I think that’s Dale Carter Cooper standing 7:00there, another very fine local actress. Standing up top is Jane Singer Angenou and Max Harrod. Lenny Baker and Max Harrod did “Zoo Story” and I’ve seen “Zoo Story” a million times and their’s was the best I’ve ever seen. It was very good.

TW:Tell a little about the play, “Zoo Story.” MC:Nah TW:You don’t want to?

MC:Well, I thought everybody knew “Zoo Story.” TW:No, No. I’m supposed to interview theatre goers . That’s part of it.

MC: Well, “Zoo Story” there’s these two men sittin’ on a bench. And it’s by Albee, and the dialogue is so clever but you got to be very good at puttin’ it out, you know. They were- I can’t remember the words of course, and- Where am I now? Course, that’s dear old Richard in the front, you know that. And I’m not sure who these people are in the middle. That’s Bruce Cleveland, Public Relations 8:00for a couple of seasons. Very- Knew theatre from A to Z.

TW:Is he the one- That one?

MC:Yes.

TW:Sitting in the chair?

MC:The lord. And standing up, of course, is Sandy Speer, and Alan Longacre, General Manager. Richard brought in- I don’t know if he lasted. I think he was two seasons. I’m not sure. And over- Right on the right here is dear old John, the janitor. He died too. A special friend of mine. When he died his family came to thank me for being good to him, but it was on a Saturday and I wasn’t there. And this woman sitting here might be that actress I’m trying to remember, the local one. The one who’s little daughter played 9:00in “Joe Egg.” Anyway, she played the part- She was from the South and she was a local actress and she played the part in this southern play. We had a whole school of Black kids up in the balcony and Dale Carter Cooper was a whacky mother with a weird hat on sucking an ice cream cone—she was funny. These kids just went wild, yelling and—you know how Blacks do when there’s no audience. I love ‘em. And this some belle lady, whatever her name was, I forget, she’s still acting, she said she wouldn’t continue unless they left. Ya, did. So anyway the next day Richard Block insisted that the kids be taken to a park and the theatre furnished hot dogs and this actress had to go and help serve 10:00them. That’s what I heard.

(Static) Are we on?

TW:Oh, yes.

MC:At the top is Christine Duay, sittin’ up on the roof, and she was a au pare girl that Brook Carson brought over from England, just a young girl to look after her kids while Brook Carson was the set designer for Actors Theatre at that time. And turns out that Christine was very good at seamstress and came to the theatre regularly to help Lucy Paris, who was the costume designer. And there she met and fell in love with the stage manager who was Bob Stanton. After he got a divorce they got married and they live in Georgia. 11:00Not in theatre. They’re not in theatre any more. She of course was a special friend of mine being a kid from England. But then Susan Kingsley is not in the picture, is she.

TW:No, neither is Bryan Clark, or Jo Deodato.

MC:Well, no. He’s gone. See Bryan Clark, when he interviewed me was actor-manager.

TW:This is the 1968 calendar, and by then Jo Deodato and Bryan Clark were gone.

MC:See, there are plenty more in this picture.

TW:So, Alan Longacre took his place. OK, that’s right. He was here as actor-manager, you know, Brian Clark.

MC:Yeah, and worked hard. Now, his wife is an actress—Jo, and I forget-

TW:Jo Deodato.

MC:-and I thought she was very good actress. 12:00But a lot of people said they didn’t think so. But I’m convinced she was. She had that sincerity that Anne Pitoniak’s got. It’s difficult to describe but it’s not just acting, and I thought Jo was a damn good actress. She attended all the best acting schools, with Marlon Brando and that lot. They have four children, and they were- you know, it told you in this thing that he, his father, Bryan’s father, was a well-known pharmacist here in Louisville.

TW:This is an article which appeared this morning in the Courier Journal newspaper.

MC:Well, I can remember that it was Father’s day and Bryan and Jo and the four kids and the mother, of course, took the father to a restaurant, and he dropped dead. He really did. 13:00Anyway, that was sad. I wrote them a note. But Jo I liked. I liked Bryan too. But, um- I forget what I was going to say now. Do I know any others? Um, I think you should see Lucy, and find out about this actor.

TW:We have a page of the company here.

MC:Ah, that’s it. There’s Lenny. I love Lenny.

TW:Tell a little bit about him.

MC:Lenny? Well, I tell you, he was a journeyman, which- I don’t think they have them now. That’s not an apprentice and it’s not an equity. You come in and do it so you can get y our equity, but whether they do it now I don’t know. I’ve never met any of ’em in the new theatre. And he was brilliant. 14:00He really was brilliant I thought, and very conscientious. They were doing their Irish play, oh, by Brendan- where he’s an English tommy. Oh, that was good play. Brendan Behan. Lenny was to play the young English tommy, “A Soldier in the Hostage,” by Brendan Behan, a great play, and he was so worried, how- I said, “O’ course you can play that--just a common England, innocent English boy who doesn’t understand the Irish situation at all.” And we used to talk and this and that about quite a few of his parts and he did wonderfully well in it. Course he’s been in several movies and so on. Oh, yeah, he’s on the picture. I forgot him. 15:00TW:Grant Shehann?

MC:Yes. Oh, Shannon and Paul Watson. That’s right. Oh, Lord. They went to teach, or something, at Indiana University. The two of them, they’re married. And she really thought she was- She was an actressy actress. She really thought- And she wasn’t that good, she really wasn’t. Am I on that thing?

TW:Oh, yeah. That’s o.k.

MC:Shan was. But I don’t know what’s happened to them since, but they did go to IU, I think it was.

TW:She’s not on this picture, but she’s in the calendar: Jane Singer. What did you- Did you see-

MC:Yes, there she is.

TW:Yeah. What do you remember about her?

MC:Yes, she’s in the picture.

TW:There she is.

MC:She was an ingenue. ‘Bout the same- I think she was a journeyman, 16:00I’m not sure. She and Lenny were often put together. I have a feeling she was stuck on Richard. She was Jewish. I don’t know though, of course, do I? But I do know that- See, Richard’s mother, Carolyn Simon who’s dead now, was one of my very best friends. We used to meet for lunch every week, and I think she would have really liked this [unintelligible] Anyway, that’s another person I’d like to mention, Paul O’Brian. A wonderful man.

TW:Paul O’Brian was the owner of the Normandy Inn.

MC:Yes, and the Normandy Inn was- Paul O’Brian was doing it all up you know, and-

TW:And it was close to the theatre.

MC:Right opposite. And the kitchen- the chef was Willy, 17:00my special friend, and I used to go in the kitchen and buy food for Richard and other people you know and Paul O’Brien- You know what happened to Paul: Paul was, apart from being a great restraunteur, or whatever you call it, he loved to drive a great big rig all over the place. God knows why. And then he got in an accident and got killed and Willy, my chef at the Normandy—had four or five kids, lived across the river—had a busted ulcer and died. See, I told you, I know more dead people than alive. But I did like Paul O’Brien. He was such fun. He reminded me of my brother who was in the loony bin, a gentle- “a genial giant of a man,” that’s what they call my brother in the book, 18:00and that’s what Paul O’Brien was.

TW:Concerning Richard Block: Do you remember when it- Do you remember the “All My Sons” program, and any of the controversy surrounding that, when he made a statement about cracked cylinders versus- Do you remember any of that and the Board of Directors getting upset with him, or anything about that?

MC:No.

TW:OK.

MC:I don’t think I was there then. I have a feeling that “All My Sons” was the one I saw before I went there.

TW:That’s right. Instead of- Sixty-six, sixty-seven. That’s right, you weren’t there yet. Well when you came in the sixty-seven sixty-eight season do you remember anything- a symposium which was held and Jon Jory was invited to come speak along with some other directors. Actors Theatre had become- was kind of proud of itself. So they decided 19:00to invite other theatre people to come and to show them off, Actors Theatre, and then for them to learn about how to sell tickets, like Danny Newman, out of Chicago. Do you remember any of that?

MC:Yeah, but I can’t be very specific about anything. What happened?

TW:Do you remember seeing Jory then?

MC:Jon Jory?

TW:Yeah.

MC:No. I never went to any of those night things. It was very unusual to work in the theatre and not go, but you see I had this family to take care of.

TW:I was just wondering if you had to type up any of the letters, inviting these people to come, or-

MC:Oh, yeah, I had to do that. But talking about typing, I typed “Tricks” for Jon Jory, at least twice, the whole damned script. Yeah, I can remember typing that. That was before you had all these whatever they have now. So.

TW:When it came time not to renew- Or when they decided not to renew Richard’s contract, do you remember any of that? 20:00MC:I know I was absolutely upset.

TW:Were you surprised?

MC:I’m trying to think. Yeah, I think I was surprised. I wasn’t flabbergasted, but I was surprised, and I was upset.

TW:Did you talk to Richard about it? Or-

MC:No. I wouldn’t do that.

TW:You never said a word.

MC:Well, you know, you don’t do that do you? I wouldn’t anyway. I can remember when Jory was first there, he’d been there quite a while, and he said—we had meetings you know—and he said, “It makes me nervous, I don’t want Richard Block to keep coming in here all the time.” And I piped up and said, “Well, don’t you think I’m going to tell him that.” And I think Jory admired me for that. I don’t know that anyone told him. Maybe Sandy did. But, you know, I just thought shit, you’re not going to have me tell my late boss whom I very much liked, “Don’t 21:00come around, you’re making him nervous.” I wouldn’t do it.

TW:Do you remember the first time you ever saw Jory?

MC:Yeah, well did you know that he and Trish Pugh came in, of all times, on July the fourth? Well, and I thought, jeez. Anyway, then o’course I suppose the first time I saw him would have been July the fifth. I guess. But, he seemed to like me all right. He always has seemed to like me. And I like him, but not as much as Richard. And, I know one time he- You know the balcony was on the level of the office, there in the old building, and he took me up there and said, “Now, I’m going to pick your brain. They tell me you know.” So he asked me different things [unintelligible] And I said, “Well, you know it’s a very cliquey 22:00town.” Which it is, Louisville. He said, “Well, yeah, every place is.” And I said, “Well, you’re right there.” So that was- But then, you come into the bit where they demoted me. (she laughs) TW:Uh- No. I was going to say to you: I think we should have this clear, that from sixty-six to sixty-seven you were Executive Secretary, sixty-seven to sixty-eight Executive Secretary, sixty-eight to sixty-nine Executive Secretary, sixty-nine to seventy, seventy to seventy-one Executive Secretary, seventy-one to seventy-two Executive Secretary, then, in the program it has seventy-two to seventy-three you are Receptionist. And I was going to say, did this happen with the move to the Main Street location with someone else as Secretary and you mainly answered the phone and greeted the people. What happened?

MC:Well, I was still Secretary when we got to the new- you can see that.

TW:The Main Street location.

MC:And, I don’t know, I thought I was doing all right. I typed all right. I hoping—I might be wrong—that they decided I was better at meeting people, and greeting, 23:00and getting on with people, than-

TW:That’s what I figured.

MC:I was hoping that anyway, but whether it was that or not I don’t know. Course thing was that I always left at five, I wouldn’t stay, I wouldn’t come in, I never went to any of the night things. You know, that sort of hurts in theater. ‘Cause I really really truly believe that I could have been PR if I was of them that would work twenty hours, and- whatever.

TW:I thought maybe it was that they had so much more typing work that they needed two people, really. That they needed to separate the-

MC:Well, I didn’t do much typing. And I understand this Diana that they got, they stuck her behind glass. Well I wouldn’t want that. That I would not want.

TW:She’s the one who took your place after you left.

MC:Yeah, see she was- Once she came in to help- She was right down on her luck then and they’d send people to find jobs for these people, the welfare or—not the welfare, whatever does 24:00it—that girl, what’s her name?—supposed to have written those one-acts. She directed at Clarksville Little Theatre for a long time. She’s clever. What the hell’s her name? You don’t know her? You know those one-acts that-

TW:Yes, yes, yes.

MC:Well, and nobody ever knew who wrote them.

TW:Oh, You mean Jane Martin.

MC:No. Well, that was the pseudonym- that was the pen name. But this was the real girl.

TW:You mean the real Jane Martin?

MC:I think so. But you don’t know her?

TW:No- I mean- No.

MC:I can’t think of her name. Roz Heinz still sees her. She was supposed to bring her round to see me. You should talk to Roz Heinz. She’s PR at the Art Center. 25:00TW:OK, I’m going to call her.

MC:You tell her you talked to me.

TW:I will. I’ll call her at the Art Center. Now, OK, so the person who wrote the one-acts is the person who somehow knew Diana Johnson, or she-

MC:Well, Diana Johnson was- She was doing something at the theatre then. What it was, whether she was writing, or doing the help with the apprentices, she’s a theatre girl, not married, and sent Diana Johnson, for which she got minimum wages, you know, and then when I left- They knew I was going to leave. I was riddled with arthritis anyway. Maybe that’s why they did it. I don’t know. Anyway so, you know, how ‘bout her doing it? And I said Yeah, she ought to be able to do that, and so she did. So she left [unintelligible0 TW:How did 26:00things change at the theatre after Richard left and Jory came on?

MC:Well, he brought Trish Pugh in. Well, everything became more frantic. That’s about the only difference. And he would not hire any of the old people.

TW:You remained as the receptionist until the seventy-eight seventy-nine season.

MC:Yeah. Then I retired. I wasn’t asked to go. In fact, I tried to get out the year before but they talked me into staying and said I could leave at four. And I had a ride, lady who worked around the corner and lives down the road. So I stayed another year. You know I was getting very crippled.

TW:Back to the earlier days: 27:00Recall a little bit about Susan Kingsley and her early position and what you remember of her.

MC:Well, haven’t I already told you that she came straight from UofK? Oh, she came from U of K, she and another young woman, I forget her name, theatre majors. And they were both put in the box office. And Susan worked the box office, no acting. She used to look, and everything like that, you know, learning. And until she- And she was married, married Lamuth Kingsley, of course- I forget whether she met her husband in Europe where he had an award, and they quarreled- Eventually she had an award to go to the London Academy, 28:00Dramatic Arts. And she was in London when I took Janet Leavy and went home to England and Sandy Speer and Lee Anne, no, not Lee Anne, Rowan and the Victors.

TW:Oh, the Victors, Rowan.

MC:Sandy Speer and the Victors were in London and we all met. But Susan couldn’t meet with us, she was too busy. Had a good time. We met Richard’s father, the dentist, at a magnificent pub on the river bank.

TW:Tell me about Ann Pitoniak and your relationship with her, a little bit. Because she’s one of your friends too. Now this is jumping ahead to actors and actresses who came in later.

MC:Ann Pitoniak- Wait, what year did she come in?

TW:I don’t know what year she came 29:00 in.

MC:Well anyway, she’d been in the theatre before I left at least three seasons, maybe more. And she is a lovely lady, she really is. She’s one of these people that loves everyone, you know, and doesn’t have a nasty word about anyone, and she’s about five years younger than me and she has taught school in England. Yeah. She taught English in England, at very posh schools. So of course she knows all about England and so on, which helped. And she has done some wonderful work in movies and small parts, and I just got a little letter from her where she sent me some books. She’s going to be in- I think it’s a TV movie, and Lee Grant is producing and directing. You know how good 30:00she is. And Ann will be in that End 1990.122.22.1 Begin 1990.122.22.2 TW:Beginning of Side 2, Tape 1.

MC:Her mother, who was ninety-odd, and who could speak six languages, finally got Alzheimer’s disease and finally died this Christmas, which was a relief of course. Wonderful woman though, from Yugoslavia. And I guess Ann must have been married to a Frenchman once, because when she first came to the theatre she had a definite French name, then changed to Pitoniak. She has two children, a boy and a girl, grown up of course. And a grandson which she’s very proud of. And she comes to see me all the time when she’s here. And I miss her.

TW:We have a newspaper article, and it was written MC:I want to mention Lee Anne, because my first vision of Lee Anne I’ll never forget. 31:00She was so young, and she used to come in to visit Jon from the New York stage, where she was in “Play it Again, Sam.” And the very first time- She was lovely, I mean she really was, a lovely young woman. The very first she came she picked up the mangiest dog I have ever seen in my whole life and brought it and lay it on the grass in front of the office window, you know that piece of grass there. And this lovely little starlet sat beside this mangy, horrible dog all on a very very hot afternoon, stroking its head and trying to make it drink water. And I had to keep calling the Humane Society to come, which of course they never did. Finally I got someone [unintelligible] to be put down, because it was full of distemper 32:00and—it was sick. But you know, I thought, well, there’s not many of those really beautiful little starlets who would sit with that—there wasn’t any publicity to it, you know. I liked Lee Anne very much.

TK:And what about the Jorys? Do you remember them?

MC:Yeah, I remember the Jorys. Course I was quite fond of Jean-

TK:Jean Inness.

MC:She was a tough old bird, but ‘course she had to be. She was a darn good actress and I liked her. ‘Course I used to argue with her about Nixon, who I detested and they liked. And the old boy was very loving to me, you know, he hugged everyone anyway, and I know- I was leaving early to go to a dinner that my husband’s company 33:00was having. Petroleum people, you know. And Jean Jory, with a devilish gleam in her eye offered me this Nixon metal [unintelligible] I said, “Stick it on the walls”—didn’t say that. We were always kidding each other, about things like that. She was nice. When Victor first arrived in Louisville he managed to flush his upper plate down the toilet in the rented cottage where he lived, and he was due for a press conference. So they got a great Louisville dentist to make him a new lot of teeth in time. So there he was with his new teeth. But then he was doing “Tobacco Road,” –that was a good play—and he fell at the appropriate 34:00moment and promptly broke the other teeth. And he always said that the money he earned in Louisville went mostly to dentists.

TK:He would say that to you all?

MC:Yes, he always said that.

TK:Can you remember hearing him say that?

MC:Oh, yes. I can remember that. But see I didn’t see any of this. ‘Cause I wasn’t at rehearsal and stuff.

TW:But he would come through and make jokes about it.

MC:Oh, yes. Talking of “Tobacco Road,” I really- the thing I remember is that first part that Sue Kingsley really dug into and showed her metal. She, I believe, is one of the best actresses I’ve ever seen. I’d like to mention Kurt Wilhelm, costume designer for many seasons of the new theatre when I was there. He was so good, 35:00and he knew so much about theatre and ballet and opera. He wasn’t very old. He was a graduate of University of Cincinnati and his mother and father both died at the same time, of cancer, in the same ward. So he was an orphan. But he was nice looking, very gifted, and his wife’s name was Geneva, and they had a- Geneva had a boy by her first marriage and he went swimming one weekend, the boy, and drowned. He used to- He was a busboy or waiter or something at Myra’s restaurant, it was very sad, that. He’d given them quite a bit of trouble and he was just beginning to straightened 36:00out- wasn’t much older than Kurt. Anyway Kurt came for one of the theatre festivals here in Louisville and dropped dead. The last I heard of Geneva she was working at the museum in New York City. You know, the big one. But that was another tragic loss for the theatre when Kurt died so young.

TW:I wanted to ask you if you remember Gloria Donaldson who was in charge of the Starving Artist, which was the restaurant downstairs at Actors.

MC:Yes, I know that. In the first place I’d like to say that I thought the name was absurd, The Starving Artist. They had a contest for that. Trish Pugh picked that name and at the time I made myself very unpopular. I said, “What a dumb, stupid name.” I see they’ve changed it now, which makes sense, to Downstairs 37:00at Actors. Anyway Gloria Donaldson managed the downstairs bar at the new theatre for many seasons. She was a good friend of mine. We always embraced. She was vivacious, she was colored, she was very popular. She knew how to run a bar. She was a lot of fun. And she lived in the east end here. Anyway, I couldn’t believe it: one day she was out driving her car, fortunately she had a friend with her, a female friend, and she suddenly had a stroke. And they took her to the hospital but she died. She couldn’t have been much more than forty, I doubt she was that. 38:00All these young people—that’s what gets me down. Don’t mind the old so much, but the young.

Well when we first moved to the new theatre my responsibility didn’t change at all. In fact there was more of meeting people and long distance phone calls, and stuff like that and so on. The office wasn’t very nice. It had big windows, which I liked, and I filled the office with plants which did remarkably well. And there wasn’t too much difference. I still left at five every day, and I still had to go upstairs all the time, and all the time my arthritis was getting worse. But it didn’t change- I took dictation from Jon, and then, gradually they added people because they got bigger and bigger. 39:00Maybe that’s why they demoted me, I don’t know.

TW:What about the Humana Festival of New American Plays? What do you remember about all that?

MC:Well, I thought the first one was very exciting. I was thrilled to bits. As a matter of fact, I think the first- one, two, three had the best plays, I really do. I wasn’t keen on those one-acts that they went into. I wasn’t-

TK:Oh, the shorts, known as the shorts. So you remember- Did you see “Gin Game”?

MC:Yes, uh-huh. But it was good, except- That was on in London with those two great stars, ah-

TK:Hume Cronyn and Jessica Tandy.

MC:And I said to my relatives, it shows you we’re not theatre people, I can get you in there—cause you see I had talked to Hume Cronyn, got him in the Galt House—and they said, “Oh, we don’t want to see that.” It was a good play but- Would 40:00you like to know the plays I remember the best?

TK:I would love to!

MC:“All My Sons” was very good, and “The Hostage” was very good, and “All the Kings Men” was good. And “Miss Julie” was good. ‘Course I don’t remember them all. “Tobacco Road” was good, then “Agnes of God” was good, and “The Runner Stumbles” was good. “Getting Out” was good. But I’ve always enjoyed, it seems to me, the play they did up in the Victor Jory theatre than the ones downstairs, and I don’t know why. I can’t remember all my favorite plays of course. I can remember 41:00a lot I didn’t like, but I’m not going to mention them.

TK:When you went to these plays-

MC:Well, we were supposed to go- I mean they liked us to go, we didn’t have to pay of course, because especially in my particular situation I would need to know what I was talking about if someone called on the phone and I would say that the entire box office staff should know too, about the play. So, of course I went to the plays. I never went to opening night. In the beginning opening night used to be a real lavish affair, you know—parties and dress, they used to dress nicely and everything, and very nice, and I had to be home, you know, like I told ya. So I never went to any opening nights. Then I don’t think opening night is as exciting now as it was then. 42:00Course I don’t know because I’m not there.

TK:Did you see “Crimes of the Heart”?

MC:Yes.

TK:Did you like that one? It was later made into a movie with Diane Keeton-

MC:Oh, yeah, I didn’t like that. I didn’t like that. Yeah, silly Southern women and one was supposed to have murdered her husband, and all that stuff, yeah. Did well though.

TK:Mary Coy and I are looking at an article by Jean Dietrich and the headline is, “ATL’s Gentle Backstage Voice.” It’s the Courier Journal and Times Sunday edition, August 29th, 1976. That was your ten year anniversary at the theatre.

MC:Yes, that was- I might mention that Jean Dietrich was an old friend of mine, because she and my cousin, who’s a theatre director in England, 43:00met in Dayton, Ohio when they were both young, and then Jean came to Louisville and so we got together and she remained my friend until just before she died. Anyway, this ten years was very nice. The directors and staff hosted me to lunch at the Jefferson Club, and you know, everyone was there and other people sent flowers for a centerpiece. It was really very nice indeed. That’s what I remember. Well, talking about the directors, I’d like to point out that when I first went to work at the old theatre I was about the oldest person there, I’m sure I was. These were all young people. They’re now tycoons, most of them. They seemed to be the offspring of people who were running the orchestra 44:00and the opera and, no, not the ballet. And now there’s Dan Ulmer and Grissom, and oh, I don’t know, all big shots. And of course Dan Byck who married Marsha Norman, and here I was—I think I told you I was in my early forties, too old to type. Kennedy was too young to be president, they said. I thought, How weird. Of course I’ve come across a lot of weird things and I just felt as though I was the mother of the group, more or less. Anyway, another thing I’ve suddenly remembered about the old theatre, I don’t think I mentioned it before, some of the young—most of the actors were young and journeymen—went on top of that flat roof and painted Kennedy on the roof in white and Richard 45:00Block was furious and made them take it off. I think it was because, of course we had lots of Republicans on the board, you know politics are not supposed to enter into the theatre. Especially this type of theatre. But they did. I remember that.

Well, seeing that it’s Derby time, I forgot to mention the thing that really thrilled me, one of the things at the old Actors Theatre was that there’s a railway behind it and Derby time came with a private train, full of rich and glamorous and notable people with their own train, and I just thought that was so wonderful.

TW:Adele O’Brien and Ray Fry.

MC:Adele O’Brien, oh, she’s wonderful. She really is. She’s so versatile, 46:00she can play anything, I mean she can even still play young girls if you want her to. And she always could play older people, and young. Pretty, she can look pretty, she can look awful. She has kept in touch with me up to a point. She wrote me a lovely letter for my seventieth birthday and mentioned she remembered me telling her to dress properly the old theatre. Which embarrasses me no end, I can’t believe that I did say that. And then, she can’t be beat, really. She’s so versatile. And then Ray Fry, he’s been there for years. Did you know he was originally from Indiana? Yeah. Then he was in New York for a time and he too can play practically any part. But to me he was always Ray Fry, which with Adele it didn’t—I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong—but 47:00he is a very good actor, and a very nice man.

TW:Why do you think that Actors Theatre of Louisville is the success that it is today?

MC:Well, in the first place I think that the main reason it’s a success is the people of Louisville. They’ve stuck by it and tried and come back for more even when it wasn’t so good. Which isn’t very often. I mean it’s generally very good. And then of course a good strong Board of Directors, young people that were keen on it. They wanted to show their Mas and Pas that they could do it, I think. And of course a good producer and director. Jon Jory is very good at picking the right people for the right parts. That is good. And the business—I mean Sandy 48:00Speer is a very good business manager. And that’s it as long as they can keep up the good work, which I think they will, I hope they will. I passionately desire that they will. I wish them the very best of luck. I can remember at the old theatre, and I’m talking about Richard—I think it was Richard Block’s time, I’m not sure, I know Bruce Cleveland was still there—every night they had to appeal for support and money. I, as I have told you, left at five. But this one night was my night to watch the show, so I said, “Alright, I’ll go out there and make a spiel.” So I did, and I pointed out to them, with tears running down my cheeks—I can do that—that I was from Kokomo, 49:00Indiana, which was a desert, and I’d been told Louisville was a place of culture and forward looking, and please don’t let us down, please don’t. You know, and well, we did very well from that one thing. And after me saying that, and after it Bruce Cleveland said, “My god, were you really crying?” And I said, “Hell, no. I can do that.” Another thing I really would like to say: In my opinion acting is one of the hardest jobs in the whole wide world. One thing that Brian Clark would remember was when I was sitting at the back desk in the old theatre and a woman calls and says we’re having an afternoon social and we’d like your actors to come and entertain us and Brian applauded me. I said, “Do you realize that they work all day long rehearsing, all night long on the stage, they have one day off a week, 50:00which is Monday, to wash their clothes and see to themselves, and you think they can come out there and sit around entertaining you one day?” Oh, Brian’s clapping his hands. I did tell her. We never got any more requests. I mean they did think that. They thought, Oh, let’s get a bunch of actors out here. We didn’t have many actors here then, we needed them all, you know, we couldn’t send one like- I can just see Brian then. It is hard work, I mean I tried it in England for a bit and I thought I was pretty good—naturally I would—but it was too damn much hard work. You got to learn all that stuff and spat it every night and- It is very hard work, acting. Did that- Was that on there, because I’d like that to be on there.

TW:Oh, it’s on there. Do 51:00you have anything else you’d like to add to this interview?

MC:I can’t think of a thing. I think I’ve talked myself out, and I think you’ve got too damn much. You’d better cut some of it out, of me anyway.

TW:I’d like to thank you for your time.

MC:Oh, thank you for bothering to come, love.