TekaWard:TodayisMay11th,1989.MynameisTekaWard.I'mwithRayFry.WeareatActorsTheatreofLouisvilleintheBensingerbuilding.AndyouhavebeenanATLresidentcompanymembersincethe74/75season?
RayFry:That'sright.
TW:Howdidyouhappen?Well,IknowwhatIwanttosay.Startwithyourbackgroundfirst.That'swhatIwantedtodo.
RF:Well,IgrewupinGary,IndianaandgraduatedfromhighschoolthereandwentfromtheretoIndianaUniversity,andIwasthereforayear.IleftIUandwenttoNorthwestern,andIwasatNorthwesternforaboutayearandahalf,andthenIleftNorthwesternandwenttoNewYork.Thiswasinthemid1940s,andIworkedinNewYork.Well,IwasinNewYorkthreeweekswhenIgotmyfirst
1:00 job,andIhadgonetoNewYorkwith$60andaonewayticket,soIwasverylucky.TheshowthatIwasinranthat.IgotapartinNewYork,ranaweek,soIwasunemployedandreallyhadnowheretogo,andIwastakeninbyafriendwhomIhadmet.SoIstayedwithhimuntilthenextjobcameup,whichwasabouttwomonthslater.AndthenItouredwithashowandthroughmostlyintheEasternUnitedStates,andcamebackandgotintheUSOandwentwiththeUSOcompanytoEurope.IwasinEuropejustattheendofthewar.IspentThanksgivingof1945inBerlin,andthenIcamebacktotheStates.IwaswiththeUSO,
2:00 about18months.IcamebacktotheStatesandtriedtorevupmyprofessionalcareerinNewYorkagainandplayedstock.IgotmyfirststockjobplayinginKissandTell,whichistheplaythatIhadplayedintheUSO,andthatwasattheBerkshirePlayhouseinStockbridgeinMassachusetts.AndthenIdidseveralshowsandworkedseveraljobs,andfinallyendedupintheJoseFerrer'sCyranodeBergeraconBroadway.Iplayed,Idunno,sixparts,Ithinkspentmostofmytimeoffstagechangingmycostume.ThenIwasdraftedintotheArmyandthearmyofoccupationinthePacificandwassenttoOkinawa
3:00 whereItaughtliteracytraining.IwasintheliteracyprograminOkinawa,andIwasthereabout13monthsandgotout,excuseme,decidedtogobacktoNewYorkandtrytogetmycareergoingagain.AndIwasrecalledintotheArmyandsenttoKorea,andIwasinKoreaabout14months.Iwaspartofspecialserviceandwasinchargeofanallsoldiershow,whichwasfortunate.Iatleastwasnotshotat.However,wedidplayprettyclosetoenemylines.TheycapturedsomeChinesecommunistswhohadseenourshowfromtrees.Wewerelatertold.AndthenwhenIgotoutoftheareathesecondtime,NewYorkseemedkindofhopelesstome.AndIhaddecidedafterhavingbeenintwohitsinNewYorkandplayedthesameshoweighttimes
4:00 aweekfortwoyears,thatwasreallynotwhatIwantedtodo.AndsoIdecidedtogobacktoschoolandIwenttoCollegeofthePacificinStockton,California,whichisnowtheUniversityofthePacific,excuseme.AndIwasthereayear.AndthenIwentfromtheretoSanFranciscoStatewhereIfinally,afterIthink13or14years,gotmyundergraduatedegree.AndthenIbeganworkonmymaster'satStanford,whichIdidn'tfinish.AtSanFranciscoState,Imettwomen,twofacultymemberswhowereformingaprofessionaltheatercompanyinSanFrancisco,whichbecametheActor'sWorkshopinSanFrancisco. 5:00 AndIwasaskedtobeamemberofthatcompany.SoIworkedinSanFranciscofor13or14years,andeventuallythemen,JulesIrvingandHerbertBlau,JulesIrvingisAmyIrving'sfather,wereinvitedtotakeovertheVivianBeaumontTheaterinLincolnCenter.Andtheyaskedmetogowiththem,andIdid.AndIworkedatLincolnCenterfornineyears,fornineseasons,andthenthattheaterclosedandIwasonmyownagain.SoIgotajobatPennStatethatsummer,andIwasplayingOz,OgnotOz,OgtheleprechauninFinian'sRainbow.AndIwassittinginthehouseduringadressrehearsalandhadallthisgreenmakeuponmyfaceandsequins 6:00 gluedtomyeyelids.AndIwassittinginthehouseandthismancameandsatnexttomeandsaid,mynameisJonJory.AndIsaid,oh,ofcourse,hadheardofhim.Andhesaid,howwouldyouliketocomeandworkformeinLouisville?AndIsaid,oh,sure,fine.Ofcourse,notbelievingawordofit.AndIthought,well,thisisverystrange.Thismanisobviouslyinthemarketforaleprechaun.Butwithinafewweeks,Iheardfromhimandheofferedmethreeshowsinthatseason,andthatwasFleainHerEarandBaker'sOperaandabillofoneactsinwhichIplayedinNoelCoward'sRedPeppersandChekhov'sSwanSong.AndthenheaskedmeifIwouldliketocomebackthenextseasonforthewholeseason.Isaidyes,andI'vebeenhereeversince.
TW:Whenhecalledyouupthen,youdidn'thavetoauditionorgothroughanythinglikethat?
RF:No.Yeah.
YoujustcamedownhereHehadseenalotofmyworkatLincoln
7:00 Center,soheknewwhoIwas.TW:WhatdidyoumajorinwhenyouwenttoschoolthosedifferentRF:Times?Alwaysinthetheater.sTW:AlwayInthetheater.
RF:IhadthoughtatonetimethatIwouldbeateacher,andItookIthinktwoeducationcoursesanddecidedthatwasquiteenoughandthatIreallycouldn'tcutthat,soIjustmajoredinthetheater.
TW:YoualsosaidthatyoumadealistoftheprosandconsaboutNewYork.Ireadthat,RF:Yeah.Yeah,thatwasafterIhadcomehereandworkedforseveralyears.Iwouldworkhereduringtheseason,andtheneverysummerIwouldgobacktoNewYorkforthesummer,whichitsoundsfoolish.Imean,anybodywhowouldgotoNewYorkforthesummeristheirelevator'snotrunningtothetopfloor.ButatonepointIdidsitdownandmakealistoftheprosandconsoflivinginNewYork,andtheconlistwassomuchlongerthantheprolist,thenIdecideditwastimetogetout,andthenImoveddownherefulltime.
TW:WhenyousaythatyouheardofJon
8:00 Joryin74,75,wasitintermsofActorsTheatreorjustRF:Well,hehadbeeninseveralplaces.Hehadbeen,ofcourse,attheLongWharfinNewHavenandhadbeenattheClevelandPlayhouse,andhisnamewasbeginningtobeCirculated.AndthenIsaw,oddlyenough,IsawtheopeningnightofTricksinNewYork.TW:Oh,tellmeaboutthat.
RF:BeforeIhadknownhimatall.Well,Iknewamanwhowascloselyassociatedwiththeproducer,andsoIwasinvitedtoescorthiswifetotheopeningnight,andIknewnothingaboutit.Ofcourse,Ienjoyedit.Ithoughtitwaswonderful,butotherpeopledidn't.
TW:Butyou'dalreadyheardofActors.WhatwasthereputationofActors
9:00 Theatre?RF:Well,itwasbecomingknownasaverygoodplacetowork,andthefirstthreeshowsthatIdidherethatoneseason,everythingseemedtogosowell.AndIlikedthequalityofthework,andIlikedthepeopleandTW:Peoplewhowere,RF:AndIwasofferedagreatvarietyofstufftodo,whichiswhatIreallylikedalot.
TW:Doyouremembersomeofthepeoplewhowerehere,sayKenJenkinsRF:Or?Yeah,andPatTovatt,AdaleO'BrienandVaughnMcBride,andIcan'tthinkoffhandnow.Oh,MichaelGrosswasherethatyear.AndJeffrey,oh,what'shis,Ican'tthinkofhislastname.ThemanwhoeventuallyplayedtheemperorinAmadeus.
TW:Ohdear.
RF:Wouldbehere.Well,Idon'tseeithere,
10:00TW:ButthefirstnameisJeffrey.RF:Yeah,well,Ihopeyoucaneditthisout.I'llthinkofiteventually.JeffreyDuncanJones.Oh,great.JeffreyJones,yes.
TW:Oh,good.
RF:Yes.Andhe'ssincethenhasturnedupinalotofmoviesandisdoingverywell.
TW:Inadditiontoacting,youalsodirect.
RF:Yes.
TW:Didyoudirect,beforecomingtoActorsTheatre?
RF:I'dhaddirectedsomewhatoffBroadwayandinregionaltheaterpreviously.Andtherehadalwaysbeensomanyproblems,technicalproblemswithsceneryandcostumesandlimitedbudgetsandprops.
11:00 AndImean,youdidadressrehearsalandeverybodywasputtogetherwithsafetypins,andIeventuallygaveitupbecauseitseemedsohecticthatyoudidn'treallyhavetimetodothecreativework.Youjustpadbysheerforcetogetitonandgetthroughit.AndthenwhenIcamehereandJonaskedmetodirectattheendofmyfirstfullseason,IwasdelightedtodothatbecauseIknewthatthetechnicalstaffherewassocapableandthattherewerenoproblems.ThefirstthingIdidherewasDearLiarwithAdaleO'BrienandBillKane.AndthensincethenI'vebeenaskedtodirectoneandsometimestwoshowsayear,andIenjoyit.TW:What'sdifferentbetweendirectingandactingforyouasaRF:Well,it'ssomewhatakintodirectingissomewhatakintoacting,towritingbecauseyouhavetodefineandanalyzetheproblems.
12:00 Whenyouwrite,youhavetoreallyexamineyourfeelingsbeforeyoucanputthemdownonpaperandsay,well,howdoIreallyfeelaboutthis?OrHowdoesthischaracterreallyfeelaboutthis?Andbyputtingitonpaper,youdefineit,andasadirector,youcanwatchanactorhavingproblemsandyouhavetodefinewhatthatproblemisinordertohelphim.Ifinditinteresting.Andinthecourseofdirecting,I'velearnedagreatdealaboutacting.TW:Whichdoyouprefer?
RF:Iprefertodoboth.
TW:Theendofthe,sothiswas75,76.Whenyouappearedinallofthemainstageperformances.Wereyousurprisedwhenheaskedyoutodothisorhadyoulethimknow?
RF:Well,we'dhadaverygoodworkingrelationship.Ididmyfirstseasonhere,Idid,ofcourse,didashowwithVictorJory,theChekhov
13:00 playSwanSong.AndIrememberIcametorehearsalonedayanditwasatwocharacterplay,andIreallyhadverylittlesay,IlistenedsympatheticallytoVictorandIcametorehearsalonedayandJonsaidtome,hesaid,IamjustsosickofhearingaboutRayFry.RayFrysaid,that'sallmyfathertalksabout.AndIsaid,Jon,youdon'treallyhavetoworry.VictorandIarenotgoingtorunofftogether.AndJonsaid,Iwishyouwould.Mymotherwouldbegreatlyrelieved.That'soneofmyfavoritestoriesaboutJonTW:Thefollowingseason,76,77,that'swhenwefirsthadtheNewAmericanWritersFestival.RF:Yes.
TW:AndyoudirectedReunion.
RF:Yes.DavidMamet
14:00 playupstairsintheVictoryJorywithBobBurrusandNanRay.Thatwasaninterestingexperience,butthatseemssolongago,andtheydoalltendtoruntogether,butthatwasthefirsttimethatthatplayhadbeendone,andIenjoyeddealingwiththatmaterial.TW:DidMametcomedownhere?
RF:No,hedidn't.IthinkhehascomedownheresincethenforthenewPlayFestivalseveralyearsago.
TW:DoyourememberseeingTheGinGame?
RF:Yes,yes.IrememberitvividlyandhowimpressedIwaswithit.Andthenseveral
15:00 yearslater,JondecidedtoreviveitandAnnePitoniakandIdiditupstairs,whichwasagreattreat.TW:AndthenthefollowingyeartherewasthesecondfestivalofNewAmericanPlaysandGettingOut.
RF:Yes,yes.Thatwasanextraordinaryexperience.Ithinkweallknew.Ithappensveryrarelywhenyouareexposedtoanewplayandyouhavesortofhavenodoubtaboutitsbeingsuccessful.Itwasjustaverypositivefeeling,andtheworkonitwasveryintense.AndyouknewthatitwasgoingtoworkTW:Inthe7475season,yourfirstseasoniswhenSusanKingsleyappearedinFemaleTransport?
RF:Yes.
TW:Didyouseethatone?
RF:No.No.ThatwasdonebeforeIcamehere.
TW:Itwasrightbeforeyoucamehere?
RF:Yeah.Yeah.
TW:ThendoyourecallherinGettingOut?
RF:Ohyeah.Vividly,yes.Yes.AndwelatertouredthattheUnitedStatesInformationAgency,andwetouredittoYugoslaviaandIsrael,andthatyearweopenedtheDublin
16:00 TheaterFestivalwithGettingOut.TW:Whatisthatlikegoingonaninternationaltour?
RF:Well,I'vedonealotofthat.Ihavedonefiveofthosetours.It'salways,stimulatingisnottherightword,butit'sfascinating.Andyoudealwithsimultaneoustranslatorthatisthateveryoneintheaudiencewearsaheadset,
17:00 andasyouperformtheplay,itistranslated.Andit'sdifficulttodocomedyinthatsituationbecausesometimes,wellinSlaviclanguagewhereajokeinEnglishwillbethreeorfourwordsinaSlaviclanguage,it's10or12.Sosometimesyoufinishthelineandthentwoorthreebeatslater,thelaughcomesandittakessomeadjustment.Butthemostinterestingthingismeetinganddealingwiththepeopleinthecountry.TW:You'dbeenoverseasbefore,soRF:Yeah,yeah.Well,ofcourse,Europewasmuchdifferentthefirsttime.Thatwasrightattheendofthewar,soitwasinterestingtogobackanddoitagain.
TW:AndthenIwanttoaskyou,inadditiontodoingtheater,regionaltheater,you'vedonemusicals.
RF:Yes.
TW:You'vedonenationaltours,you'vedonefilm,you've
18:00 donetelevision.Iwouldliketodiscussthose.RF:Oh,I'vedonealittlefilmandalittletelevision.Nottoomuch.
TW:Forinstancefilm[unintelligible]RF:Yes.That'saplaybyPatrickTovatt,anditwasfilmedhereforPBS.ItwasfilmedhereintownwithDeborahHedwallandKennyJenkinsandAdaleO'Brienandme.Andit'sbeenseen,Ithinkprettymuchoverthecountry,anditseemstobeaverygoodtreatmentofthematerial.
TW:Okay.What'sitlike?How'sitdifferentfrombeingin,say,livetheaterwhenthere.Doyougettodotakes?
RF:Ohyes.Many,manytakes.That'stheonethingthatIhavesomefeelingabout,
19:00 andthatisinfilm,youarereallynotincontrolofyourownperformance.Youdoallofthesetakesandthenallofthisfilmisturnedovertoaneditorandtheeditorputsyourperformancetogether.Sounlessyou'reabigstarandhavesomepoweroverthefinalcut,youhavenocontrolofwhatyourperformanceeventuallyturnsouttobe.AndIfindthatfrustrating.TW:Soit'slikethatintelevisiontoo?
RF:Ohyes,yes.Butespeciallywhenit'sonfilm.Thiswasnotlivetelevision.Thiswastaped.
TW:Soit'sthesamethingasifyouweredoingit.
RF:Yeah,yeah.It'sturnedovertoaneditor.
TW:Doyouthinkthatmakesyouperformdifferentlywhenyou'redoingitbecausesomething'sgoingtohappenlikethat?
RF:Idon'tthinkso.Ithinkthemajorthingthatyouhavetodoistodecidewhatreallyneedstobedone,whattherealobjectiveis.Andinthistakes,sometimesittakeus30seconds.
20:00 Andifyouhavetokeepthatobjectiveinmindallofthetimesothatifyouareworkinginascenewhichisfive,sixminutes,youhavetosaytoyourself,youhavetodecideandanalyzeanddiscoverwhythesceneisinthescriptandwhatpurposeyouserveinthatscene.I'vedonesomemajornetworktelevisionandhaveneverbeenspokentobythedirector.IrememberonetimeIwasinLosAngeleswithashowandIgotabitpartinatelevisionproduction,andIdidthis,Iplayedadoctoranditwasverysmallpart,butnobodysaidanythingtome.AndfinallyIjustwenttooneofthetechniciansandsaid,afteratake,Isaid,wasthatallright?Andhesaid,oh,yeah,that'sfine.But
21:00 Ihadtohavesomefeedbackfromsomebody.AndthethingthatIreallyappreciatedwasworkingwithArthurPenninafilmcalledTargetwithGeneHackmanandMattDillon.Andofcourse,thiswasamajormotionpicture,andIhadneverworkedinthatcircumstancebefore.Andsincethen,everybodyhastoldmehowluckyIwas.ButArthurPenn,aftereverytake,ArthurPennwastherewithsomekindofinputgivingyouanewideaormakingyouawareofcertaintechnicalthingsthatyouneededtobeawareoflikewherethecamerawas.Sohewasalwaysthere,andIfoundthatgratifying.TW:Howdidallthathappentocomeabout?That'ssomething
22:00 Iwantedtoaskyou.Whenyouarearesidentcompanymember,youstilldon'treallyknowhowmanymoreseasonsyou'regoingtobesomeplace,doyou?RF:No,youdon't.
TW:There'salotofunsureness.
RF:Ohyeah,ofcourse.Well,ifyougointothisbusiness,therearesomekindsofsecuritythatyoujusthavetoforego,andthat'soneofthem.It'sveryunusual.Excuseme.It'sveryunusualtobeinsuchalongrangeprojectasIhavebeenandasAdalehasbeen,TW:Iwantedtoaskyouaboutthat,butIalsowantedtoaskyou,doyouhaveanagent?Doyoukeepyournameknowninothertheaters?Imean,howdoyougetsomethinglikeafilmoratelevision?Howdoesitwork?
RF:Well,Iwasthe83or84Humana
23:00 Festival.IwasinaplaycalledLemons,andIplayedanautomobilesalesmanwhoworeaterribletoupee,andIhadalotoffundoingit.Itwasveryfunnypart.AndIwasathomeonemorningandthetelephonerang,anditwasthisagentfromNewYorkwhohadbeenherefortheHumanaandhadseenLemonsandsaid,Iwouldliketosubmityouforamovie.AndIsaid,beingthecynicthatIhavebecome,Isaid,oh,yeah,sure.Andhesaid,ifyouwill,sendmesomepictures,Iwillsubmitthemtothedirectorandtalktohimaboutyou.AndIsaid,Ah-huh,ofcourse.Andhesaid,butIhavetohavethepicturesonmydeskbyMonday.ThiswasonFriday.AndIsaid,okay,okay.I'llexpressthepicturestoyouandaresume.SoIsentthemtohimthinkingthatIwouldneverhearfromhimagain.AndhecalledonMondaymorningandsaid,well,Igotthepictures, 24:00 thankyou,andI'mgoingtobeseeingthedirectorandI'llgetbacktoyou.AndIsaid,oh,yeah.Okay.TW:Didyoureallysoundlikethatwhenyoutalkedtohim?
RF:Yes.Becauseyouhearalotofstuff,right?AndonTuesdaymorning,thephonerangandhesaid,thisagentsaid,haveyouhadyourmorningcoffee?AndIsaid,yes.Hesaid,areyousittingdown?AndIsaid,yes.Hesaid,well,ArthurPennwantsyoutodothemovie.Ishowedhimthepicturesandhesaid,oh,yes,you'llbefine.Sothat'showIgotthatmovie.Imean,that'sararecircumstance,andyoucertainlydon'tliveyourlifethinkingthatthat'sgoingtohappenoften.Butitwasfun.Ihadagoodtime.IspentamonthinParis.
TW:Howthrilling.
25:00RF:Yes,itwasfun.TW:Didtheyhaveplacesforyoutostay?
RF:No.Imean,yougetyoursalaryandaperdiem,andtheyarrangeforhotelaccommodations.
TW:Doyoualltalkwhenyou'reinaplayorafilmoranythinglikethat?Doyouallevertalktoeachotheraboutitoutsideofbeingonthestageorinrehearsal?
RF:Ohyes.YeahTW:Withoneanother.
RF:Thegreatdangerthere,andit'ssomethingthatI'vebecomeawareof,isveryoftenpeopletendtotrytodirectoneanotheralmostunknowingly.
26:00 AndIthinkthat'sdangerous.Ithinkanactorneedsonedirectorandfellowactors,unconsciously.Unconsciously,youfindyourself,andIdon'tdothisanymore.Idon'tgouptosomebodyanddiscussasceneoutsideofrehearsal.Ithinkthatcanbedangerousbecauseunknowinglyyoufindyourselfaskingpeopletodothingsthatserveyou.TW:Iguessthat'strue.
RF:Yeah.Imean,that'snotevenanyconsciouskindofthing.ButI'vesincehavebecomeverycarefulofthat.Andifanactorcomestomeandsays,well,let'stalkaboutthis.Iusuallysay,well,let'swaituntilrehearsaltomorrow.Andthenyoutalkaboutitinfrontofthedirector.
TW:Whatdoyoulookforinadirectorifyoulookforsomething?
RF:Well,someonewho'sdonehishomework,TW:ReadingtheplayRF:Readingtheplay,examiningtheperiodinwhichit'sdone,orthesocialsituationinwhichittakes
27:00 placewithsomeknowledgeofrelationshipsintheplay,howtheychangeordon'tchange,somesenseofcomedy.Youcanhavethebestjokeintheworld,intheplay,andifit'snotproperlysetupforyou,itisn'tgoingtowork.Agooddirectorissomeonewhoknowsthatandknowsatanygivenmoment,whoisthestraightmanandwhoisthecomicthattakessomedoingandstaging.There'salwaysthematteroffocus.Whereshouldanaudiencebelookingatthispoint?Atanygivenpoint,who 28:00 isthecenterofattentionhereandwhendoesitchangeandhowdoesitchange?Andit'sacomplexbusiness,andnotwopeopledoitalike.Notwopeopledoitalike.TW:DoyouhaveapreferenceforeithertheVictorJoryortheMainStage?
RF:Well,IenjoytheVictorJoryverymuch.Ilikeworkingupthere,andIthinkI'vedonesomeofmybestworkupthere.
TW:Whydoyoulikeitupthere?
RF:Well,it'sveryintimateandeverythingthatyoudocounts.AndIfindthatexciting.AdaleandIdidVirginiaWoolfupthereseveralyearsago,anditwaswonderfultodoittherebecauseeverybodyfeltinvolved,terrificallyinvolved
29:00 init.TW:Whenyougetaplayandyouknowthatyou'regoingtohaveapartinit,whatdoyoudo?What'syourprocess?
RF:Well,forthefirstcoupleofweeksatleast,or10days,Ireadthewholeplayeverydaytofindoutthereagain,tofindoutexactlywhatmyfunctionintheplayis,whyIaminit,whythischaracterisinthisplay.Andthenthatofcoursegovernseverythingthatyoudo.Hopefullyyouendupservingtheplaywright.ThisiswhatIfindalittledisturbingsometimesaboutprofessional[break]TW:Beginningofsidetwo,takeone.First,definewhatyoumeanbycommercialtheater.
RF:ABroadway,
30:00 OffBroadway,severalyearsago,IdidanOffBroadway.IwasinaproductionOffBroadwayofLove'sLaborsLost,andIcamebackstageattheintermissionandIsaid,whatthehell'sgoingonoutthereonstage?Everythingissodifferent.Idon'tknowwhat'shappening.It'snotreallynotwhatwe'verehearsedinalotofinstances.Andoneoftheyoungpeopleinthecastsaid,oh,well,so-and-sowasthere.Andofcourse,so-and-sowasabigagent.Andsoeverybodywasoutthereshowingoff.Ithinkthat'swhenIdecidedtocometoLouisville.TW:IsthereariskofthathappeningduringtheHumanaFestival?
RF:No,Idon'tthinkso.Idon'tthinkthathappens
31:00 becauseHumanaFestivalreallyisnotanactorshowcase.It'sashowcasefortheplaywright,andthesethingsareprettythoroughlyrehearsed.TW:Yousaidthatyouthinkabouttheplayintermsofservingtheplaywright.Doyoueverthinkaboutservingthetheatergoer?
RF:Well,thatisinevitable.Imean,that'stheonethingfollowstheother.
TW:SoyoufigureifyoujustservetheplaywrightRF:Andit'sagoodplayandit'swelldirectedandwellacted,thetheatergoerwillbehappyTW:It'sserved.Arethereanyplaysthatyou'veeitherdirectedorplayedin,actedinthatstandoutinyourmemory?
RF:Oh,well,therearealotofthem.I'vedone,attheendofthisseason,Iwillhavedone86showshereinLouisville,andIdidatleastthatmanyinSanFrancisco,
32:00 morethanthat,really.Andtherearealotofthem.TherearesomethatIwouldliketogobackanddoagain.IdidWaitingForGodotmanyyearsago,whichwasanextraordinaryexperiencebecauseoftheplayandAzdakinCaucasianChalkCircle,whichIenjoyed.VirginiaWolf,GinGame,GoldenPond.TherearelotsofthemthatIenjoy.TW:We'retalkingnowaboutthingsthatRayFryhasdirected.
RF:ITW:Wonderediftherewereanythatwewantedtomention.
RF:Well,IthinkoneofthemostinterestingandgratifyingexperiencesI'vehadasadirectorwasdoingJamesMBarry's,WhatEveryWomanKnowswithSusanKingsley.
33:00 AnditwasatatimewhenSusanwasbecomingknownaskindofacountrygirlinthetheater,andthat'swhatshewasdoingmostly.Andthefactisthatshehadaverygoodbackgroundandaverygoodeducation,hadgonetoschoolinLondonandwasabletodoalotofthingsandplayedthiswonderfulScottishwomanperfectlywithnotonetraceofcountry.AndIwassosorrybecauseI'veoftenthoughtsinceshe'snolongerwithus,whatashameitwasthatnobodyreally 34:00 evergottoseeherdothatkindofthingbecauseshediditsobeautifully.Itwasawonderfulworkingsituation.Wehadagoodtimedoingit,andshewasterrific.I'veenjoyedaCaineMutinyCourtMartialwasanextraordinaryexperiencetoo.Ihadworkedonitforabout10daysortwoweeksorsomethinglikethat,andIthought,thisisverystrange.ThisisHermanWoukfirstplay,andofcoursetheplayissoextraordinarilywellputtogether.AndIthought,howcanthisbe?Andhehasnotreallyhadasuccessfulplaysincethen.AndIwentbackandlookedatmyscriptandthereonthetitlepagewastheAnswer,TheCaineMutinyCourtMartialwasdirectedbyCharlesLaughton.Andthenwhenyouthinkaboutthat,yourealizethatTomHeggenwroteMr.Robertsandneveragainasuccessfulplay.Mr.RobertswasdirectedbyJoshuaLogan,andIthinkthesemenhadagreatdealofinputandagreatdealofinfluence
35:00 intheoriginalandtheeventualproduct.Andthatisanexcitingthinginworkingwithnewmaterialwhenyoucanworkwiththeplaywright,TW:WhichyougettodointheHumanFestival.RF:Yes.Yeah,that'sexcitingandthat'sfuntodo.
TW:Sowe'llgobacktoyourbeinganactorandyoureadtheplayeverydayfortwoweeks,thenwhatdoyoudo?
RF:Well,it'sveryhardtotalkabout.
TW:That'sokay.That'sperfectlyokay.
RF:Icantalkaboutwhatyouhopetheendresult
36:00 oftherehearsalperiodwillbe,andthatisthatyouaresowellacquaintedwithyourownidentityasthecharacterintheplay,thatyoucanstepoutthereandreacttothefirstthingthathappenstoyou.Andthenfromthenon,it'sjustaseriesofreactions.It'smyactingteacher.IstudiedwithatrulygreatactingteacheratNorthwestern,awomannamedAlvinaKrause,whoisquitewellknown,andsheusedtosaytous,wheneveryoufeelunsureofyourself,thebestwaytoovercomethatistoconcentrateonsomeoneelse.Andshesaidthatgenerallywillserveyoubetterthananythingbecausewhenyouconcentrateonsomeoneelseandreallylistentowhattheyaresayingtoyou,youwillhavenodoubtaboutwhatyouhavetosayback,butbyconcentratingonsomeoneelse, 37:00 itmakesitanoutgoingprocess.Andifyouknowwhoyouare,youhavenoproblems.Youjustknowwhoyouareandreacttootherpeople.Actingreallyisreacting.Iknowthat'sacliche,butit'strue.TW:Whendoyouallhaveyourfirst,whendoyouallhaveyourfirstreads?Howdoyoudothat?Wheredoyougo?Andyouallstandthereandreadtogether,don'tyou?Isn'tthat,whatyoudo?
RF:Weusuallydothataroundatable?
38:00TW:Oh,yousit?RF:Yeah,withadirector.Adirector.Sometimeshe'llexplaintoyouhowhefeelsabouttheplayandwhathehopestodowithitandwherehehopestogo.Andsometimesitdependsupontheplay.Sometimesyoucouldspendawholeweekdoingtableworkandsometimesyourehearse.I'vebeendoingthismoreandmore,andIpickedthisupfromJon,whichisveryvaluable.Yourehearsefortwoortwoandahalfweeks,andyougetthethingonitsfeetandeverybodyknowswheretheyhavetogoandwhattheyhavetodo.Thenyougobacktothetableandyoujustconcentrateonthematerialandontherelationships,andthatcanbeveryvaluable.
TW:What'sitlikehavingworkedwithonepersonlikeAdaleO'Brienoveraperiodoftime?Thatwouldbeuniqueamong,RF:Yeah.Yeah.Well,ofcourse
39:00 it'suniqueinthiscountry.It'snotuniqueatallinBritainwheretheyhaverepertorycompanies.Well,it'sgratifyingbecausewhenyougointorehearsal,you'realreadytwoweeksahead.Youdon'thavetofigureoutwhatthisactorisgoingtodo.Youcanjustrelaxandsay,well,Iknowwhatevershe'sgoingtodoisgoingtobeallright.It'sapleasure.TW:SaywithAutumnElegy,whichwasinthislast13thfestivaloftheHumanaplaysyouallgetto,didyouworkwiththeplaywright?DidyouallRF:Yes.Shewashere,shewasheretheentiretime.
TW:Nowhaveproduction,drama,churchinvolved.Whatwasthatlike?That'sabeautifulplay.
RF:Yeah.Well,itwasveryinterestingandextremelyproductive.
40:00 IthoughteveryonewasveryopenaboutwhattheythoughtandwhattheyfeltTW:Givingherideas.RF:Andsometimessheacceptedthemandsometimesshedidn't,butwhenshedidn't,shewouldgiveyouverysoundreasonwhy.Anditwasveryopen.Itwasaveryopensituation.Everybodytalkedveryopenlyandveryfreelyandeasilyaboutit.Andtherewasatributetoher,theplaywright,becauseshewastheonewhowasresponsibleforthatatmosphereandthedirector.
TW:IntermsofTheHumanaFestival,Iwantedtodiscussitsimpactonavarietyofthings.Theplaywright,theateratlarge,Louisville.
41:00RF:Well,ithasbeenprimarilyforplaywrights.TheHumanaFestival,asIsaidearlier,andIthinkthatit'shappened,peoplewhocomehereareproducersandagentslookingfornewtalentandnotnecessarilyactingtalent.Andthewaytelevisiondevoursmaterialthesedays,they'reherelooking,Imean,JohnPatrickShanley,themanwhowroteMoonstruck,hadoneofhisfirstsuccesseshere,whichwasaplaycalledDannyIntheDeepBlueSea.ThatwasJohnPatrickShanley.Andseveralwritershavegoneontowritefortelevisionbecausetelevisionjustitsappetiteformaterialisjustendless.It'sabottomlesspitandsometimesit'sarealpit.TW:Doyouthinkthatregional
42:00 theaters,residenttheaters,needtohaveanidentityinordertobeasuccess?Ordotheyhaveidentitiesnomatterwhat?RF:Oh,Ithinktheydo.Nomatterwhat,Ithinkregionaltheateris,regionaltheater'sidentityisdefinedbythecommunityinwhichitexists.Ithink.OneofthereasonsIwassoimpressedoriginallywithATLwasbecauseofitsrelationshiptothecommunitythatIrememberwhenIfirstcamehere,yougooutintothecommunityandpeoplewouldtalkaboutourtheater.Theywereverypossessiveaboutit,andthatdidn'thappen.Didn'tjusthappen.Imean,therewasagreatconcentratedeffort
43:00 onthepartofJonandhisstaffinthoseearlydaystoreallyrelatethetheatertothecommunityandmakepeoplefeelthatitwastheirsandtheybelongedhere,andtheycouldcontributetoit,whichtheydo.TW:Sothatacommunitymightmore,atheatermightmorereflectthecommunitythansay,theartisticdirector.
RF:Well,Ithinkit'samatter,asmostthingsinthetheaterare.It'samatterofgiveandtake.It'satwo-waystreet,thecommunityandthetheater.
TW:Atwhatpointdoyouknowwhatplaysaregoingtobethenextseason?
RF:Well,Imean,thatvariesfromyeartoyear.Doesthere'sno,yes.Whentheybeginthesubscriptiondriveforthenextseason,theyhavetoannounceaseries.Andwedon'talwaysdothat.Imean,wedon'talwaysdowhatwesaywe'regoingtodo,andit'schangedavailabilityofactorsanddirectorsandmaterial,andalotofthingscanhappeninacoupleofmonths.Timetochange.
44:00TW:DoyouthinkthattheActorsTheatrerespondstowhatisgoingon,say,attheKentuckyCenterfortheArtsortheKentuckyContemporaryTheater?Istherearesponsetothatperhapsinthechoicesofplaysthatwehavetomake?Entertainmentasopposedto,RF:Well,Idon'tknow.IthinkDerbyDinnerTheaterdoesappealIanddoesitconsciously,andI'msuretheywouldnotdenyittoadifferentkindofaudience,someofthesame,butprimarily 45:00 adifferentkindofaudiencethatwhatyoualwaystrytodoisIthink,istrytoofferaswideavarietyasyoucan.Andnomatterwhatyoudo,noteverybody'sgoingtobehappy.That'sarealitythatyoulearntofaceinthetheater,nomatterhowwellyoudoaplay,howwellyouplayapart,howbeautifulthecostumesare.There'salwaysgoingtobesomebodywhodoesn'tlikeit.TW:Whichleadsmetoreviewsandcriticsandtheirroles.Howdoyouperceive?
RF:Well,thereagain,Imean,thatisoneman'sopinion,andtheonlydifferenceisthatitappearsinprint,whichgivesitsomeweight.WhenIwasinNewYorkandwasworkingatLincolnCenter,IwaswalkingdownSixthAvenueoneday,andthismanapproachedmeonthestreetandhesaid,Idon'tcarewhatJohnSimonsaysaboutyou,Ithinkyou'rewonderful.Well,Ihadn'tseentheJohnSimon
46:00 review,andIwasalittletakenaback,andIdidn'thavethecouragetolookatitforseveralmonthsandasksomefriendsaboutit.AndIsaid,isitreallybad?Theysaid,oh,no,it'snotreallybad.It'sjusthisopinion.EventuallyIdidlookatitandhesaid,thenaslongastheLincolnandCenterRepertoryTheaterwasgoingtohirenon-actorslikeRayFry,theyhadnofuture.SoImean,he'scomedownonalotofverygoodpeople,soIfeltIwasingoodcompany.TW:Doyoutendtoreadthereviews?
RF:Yes,IreadthemTW:Likethedayafter.
RF:Yes.Yes,Ido.AndIdon'treallythinktheyaffectmeTW:Inawhatusedtobeatwonewspapertown.Nowit'saonenewspapertown,whatusedtobeatwocritictown.Nowit'skindofonecritic,andthenafewweregettingturns.That'salotofpowertowield.
RF:Yes.Well,that'strueofNew
47:00 York,TW:Andthat'swhatIwasgoingtosay.IsitlikeNewYork?RF:It'sFrankRich,it'stheNewYorkTimes.
It'samakeorbreaksituation.It'stoobad.Itusedtobeinthetheaterthattherewasamiddleground,thatitwouldbeaninterestingplaywright,maybenotoperatingatthetopofhisform,butstillinteresting,oritwouldbeastaroranappealingandinterestingactororactress.Anditwasn'tagreatsuccess,butitcouldsurviveforawhilebecausepeoplewereinterestedandtheywouldgoandsupportthis,andpeoplecouldmaybemakesome,ormostoftheirmoneybackinvestorscould.Nowit'shitorflop.
48:00 AndthereisnomiddlegroundTW:EitherinNewYorkorinLouisville.RF:Oh,inLouisville.Itdoesn'tmuchmatterthatway.Imean,wearesubscribedhereveryheavily,anditdoesaffectattendance,Ithink.Butyoudoitanyway.Andifthecriticdoesn'tlikeit,that'shisprivilege.ButIfindmostoldtimesubscribersinLouisvillewanttocomeandmakeuptheirownmind.
TW:WhatabouttheClassicsinContext?
RF:Well,Ithinkthat'sanincrediblystimulatingideaintheprocessofdeveloping.
49:00 Ithinkitissomethingreallyinteresting.Itwouldbenice,ideally,ifitcouldallhappenwithinamonthiftheorchestraandtheoperacompanyandtheballetandthetheater,andifwecoulddoamonthorsixweeksoftheVictoriansoroftheRussians,thatwouldbenice.AndIthinkeventuallyitmightcometothat.TW:DoyouthinkthattheClassicsandContextwillbekindofliketheHumanaFestivalforActorsTheatre?
RF:Ohyeah.IthinkwhenJonstartedtheHumanaFestivalhere,well,itwasn'ttheHumanaFestivaleventhen.ItwasjusttheGreatAmericanPlayContestthatwasratherrareinthecountry.Andnowlotsandlotsofresidenttheatershaveanewplayprogram,andsomeofthemaredoingfestivals,butsomeofthemincludeatleastonenewplayontheirseasonschedule.Ithinkthat'sveryimportantTW:Asaresult,youthinkofwhatwe'vedone?
RF:Oh,Ithinkso.Ithinksodirectly.
TW:DoyouthinkthatLouisvilleisculturally
50:00 richcomparedwithothertownsyou'vebeenin?RF:Oh,yes,Ido.Ithinkit'sremarkable.
TW:Iwonderwhyit's,RF:Well,alotofithastodowithcorporatesupport,certainly.AndcorporationswiselytryingtoattractthebestgradeexecutivetalentthattheycanfindareinterestedinofferingthemsomediversityintheirlifeinLouisville.AndIthinkit'simportant,andtheyfortunatelyhaverealizedthat,butit'sremarkableforatownthissizetohaveafirstrateorchestraandaballetcompany,anoperacompanyandseveralprofessionaltheaters.It'samazing.TheonlytownthatIcanthinkiscomparablewouldbeSeattle,
51:00 whichhasanenormoustheatercommunity.IthinktherearenineprofessionaltheatercompaniesinSeattle,andtheSeattlerephas27,000subscribers.TW:IunderstandthatatActorsTheatre,wehaveopenrehearsals.Areyoucomfortablewiththat?
RF:Oh,yeah.Thatdoesn'tbothermeatall.Itdoesbotheralotofpeople,butIdon'tthinkthatyoushouldbeafraidtomakemistakes.AndImean,that'swhatrehearsalsarefor.AndIthinkfortheapprenticecompanyhere,Ithinkit'saveryvaluableexperienceforthemtobeabletocomeinandwatchrehearsals.Andconsideringallofthehardworkthattheydoforus,Ithinkistheleastwecandoforthem.
52:00TW:Haveyou,overtheyears,workedwiththeapprenticecompaniespeople?RF:Yeah.
TW:Whatkindsofthingsdoyoualldowiththem?
RF:Weveryoftengoinandhavesortofquestionandanswerperiods,andsometimesdirecttheminmonologuesorinshortplays.
TW:Andyou'vedonethat?
RF:I'vedonesomeofit,yeah.
TW:NowwhataboutAChristmasCarol?You'refamousforthat.Youhavetobesickofdoingit,butit'sverypopularhereinLouisville.Andtheotherthingthat'sbeenpopularhasbeenPeter.Oh,thatwonderfulRF:GifttotheMagi.
TW:Yes.
RF:Yeah.Idon'tknowwhattosayaboutChristmas,Carol.Ididn'tdoitforfiveyearsbecauseIfeltthatIwasreallysortofburnedoutonit.AndI'vedoneitnowthelasttwoyears.AndIdon'tknow,Ijust,TW:Louisvillelovesit.
RF:IknowTW:Mynephews,RF:Itrytryveryhardtokeepitfreshandtokeepit
53:00 alive.AnditbecomeshardworkTW:Beingaresidentmember.Youdon'thaveto,that'swhatyouweretalkingaboutinNewYorkdoingthesamethingforalongperiodoftime.Yeah.Youdon'thavetoworryaboutthathere,doyou?RF:Well,IdowithChristmas,Carol.
TW:Well,notcountingthat,notcountingthatone.
RF:Yeah,that'strue.
TW:Andthat'swhatyoulikeabouthavingbeenaresidentmemberforsolong?
RF:Yes.See,IwasintheverybeginningoftheresidenttheatermovementinSanFrancisco.Atthattime,therewasn'tevenacontract.Lord.TheLeagueofRegionalTheatersdidn'texist.Andweworkedonanoff-BroadwaycontractinSanFranciscoforanumberofyears.Atthattime,therewasTheArena
54:00 inWashington,TheAlleyinHouston,andSanFranciscoActorsWorkshop.Therewerethethree,itwasevenbeforetheGuthrie.Theywerethethreemajorresidenttheaters,regionaltheatersinthecountry.ThethingIlikedseveralyearsago,JohnHousemanwasononeofthosemorningshows,theTodayShoworsomethinglikethat,andaninterviewersaid,tellme,everyoneisgoingaroundsayingthatthetheaterisdead.Whatisyourreactiontothat?Andhesaid,well,yes.Hesaid,thetheaterisdeadinNewYork,butit'saliveandwellelsewhereinthecountry.AndIthinkthat'sverytrue.TW:DidyouallasyoungpeopleinSanFranciscoforeseewhatwasgoingtohappenallovertheUnitedStateseventually,doyouthink?
RF:No,Idon'tthinkso.Idon'tthinkso.Weworkedforanumberofyears,Ican'trememberexactly.AndtheneventuallytheFordFoundation
55:00 gotintotheact,McNeilLowry,andweweregivenagrantsothatwecouldquitourpart-timejobs,andweweregivenalivingwage.Andthatofcourse,iswhenreallywhentheregionaltheatermovementbegan,it'swhentheFordFoundationmovedinandnurturedit.TW:Anditdid.
RF:Yes.Itwaswonderful.
TW:Isthereanythingelseyou'dliketoadd?
RF:No,notparticularly,exceptthatIenjoyandappreciateworkinginLouisville.AndLouisvillehasbeenverygoodtome,andIwouldliketothankallofthosepeoplewhohavebeengoodtome.
TW:Thankyouverymuchforyourtime.
RF:You'rewelcome.
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