Interview with Alexander Erlen, January 10, 1991

Naomi Pressma:

This is Naomi Pressma. I am conducting an interview for the Jewish Community Center's Family History Project. The present date is January the 10th, 1991. And I would like to present Alexander Erlen, who has consented to share his recollections with us tonight. Mr. Erlen, would you please give us your name, address, and, if you wish, your phone number and your age.

Alexander Erlen:

My name is Alexander W. Erlen. I live at 4000 Saint Ives Court, Louisville, Kentucky 40207. My phone number is 896-1136. I was 84 years old on November 1st, 1990.

N.P.:

Thank you, Al. Were you born in Louisville?

A.E.:

I was born in Columbus, Ohio on November 1st, 1906.

N.P.:

What brought you to our fair city and when?

A.E.:

I came to Louisville in August 1938 to accept the position as Executive Director of the Jewish Social Service Agency, now known as the Jewish Family and Vocational Service.

N.P.:

When you came here, what was the residential pattern of the Jews at that time?

A.E.:

Jewish people who were fairly well off live on 3rd Street, 2nd Street, from about Oak Street to the University of Louisville. Quite a few lived in 2:00Ouerbacker Court off of Brook Street. Some lived on Floyd. A great many Jewish people who were not as well off financially lived on Madison, Gray, between Brook and Preston. Some lived on Preston Street, a few lived east of Preston Street, in that area. There was a sizable group who had already moved to the highlands, which was considered to be far out at that time in terms of geography.

N.P.:

When did the mass exodus of the Jews to the suburbs occur?

A.E.:

I should have mentioned there was still a small Jewish community in the near West Side. The mass exodus to the suburbs, as we now know it, began sometime in the late 50s and early 60s, and it's continued since that time.

N.P.:

Did that have an impact on the Jewish community?

A.E.:

I'm not quite clear what you mean by impact, but it definitely changed the socialization of the Jewish community, because it meant that people didn't live as close to each other as they did formerly. We also had a great, more social activity between Jews and non-Jews because there were very few of what you would call Jewish neighborhoods as there were when I first came.

N.P.:

Was it hard or, rather, difficult for you and your family to become socially integrated in the city? I know that you came as a professional, which gave you some communication, but what happened socially, and who were some of the people that helped in this area? And did you have children?

A.E.:

I had two children, a girl who was born the year after I came to Louisville. My wife was already pregnant when we moved here from Cleveland, Ohio, where I formerly worked for the Jewish Social Service Bureau. I had another child, a son, born in 1946 in Louisville. Both of my children were born here in the old Jewish hospital. The doctor, who was very well known at that time and delivered a great many of the Jewish babies, Dr. Star and Dr. Solomon.

N.P.:

How did you get involved in the social community?

A.E.:

Because of my position, I became acquainted with a great many people who served on members of my board. They were very nice to me socially, invited me to their 5:00home, invited my wife and I to their homes, and it didn't take us long to feel that we had developed a great many friends. Among them, people I would like to mention would be Herman Hanmaker, Louis Cole, Marshall Benziger, Max Waldman, and many, many others, too many to mention. We felt a very warm reception, I must say that, and one of the reasons we remained in Louisville rather than moving to other communities as many social workers have done, was because we felt that we had established roots and didn't want to move again.

N.P.:

Well, we were lucky that you've felt that warmth. What I was really getting at, were there any interesting patterns that had developed in Louisville related to the social areas? You did have some communication with people because of your 6:00professional opinion, but did you notice any other patterns that you could talk about?

A.E.:

There was some segregation in the community depending on geographical location at that time. I find that practically all of that has disappeared. People who lived in the West End didn't have too much socialization. I'm thinking particularly of younger people, with people who lived in the Highlands. People who lived in the South End, not too far South, this side of the University of Louisville towards Broadway, seemed to be a group unto themselves too. So, we found the social patterns having something to do with the geography of where the people lived. Also, it had to do with the congregational affiliation of the people. The community was fairly well divided between the Orthodox and the 7:00Reformed, with a rather sizable group of conservative Jews, who I think at this point probably would be as large a group in the community as there is. It was not true when I first came to Louisville.

A.E.:

The young people who came to the YMHA, as a matter of fact the YMHA served pretty much as a milling ground for the Jewish community. There were very few non-Jewish members, perhaps less than five to my recollection at the time when I first came. The only place in the community where the total community came together was at the YMHA. Otherwise, the congregational activities were pretty 8:00much separated from each other, even as they are now. The Beth Israel was a Reform congregation, and the Rabbi was Rabbi Joseph Rauch. But later, he accepted an assistant by the name of Dr. Herbert Wahler, who came in between 1945 and 1950 and later became the Rabbi of the congregation.

A.E.:

The Conservative congregation, Adath Jeshurun, at that time was on the corner of Brook and Jacob, Brook and College. And the Rabbi was Rabbi Gittleman, who'd had been there for many years, and served for many years after that. He later accepted an assistant by the name of Simcha Kling, who became Rabbi of that congregation.

A.E.:

The three orthodox congregations at that time was one on the corner on 11th and Jefferson, which did not have a Rabbi except for a short period of time. I don't remember his name. Services were conducted by the congregation itself. It was not a very large congregation. The largest orthodox congregation was Keneseth Israel, which was located on Floyd and Jacob. They had a number of Rabbis, and I believe the Rabbi when I first came was Rabbi Brilliant, but I'm not certain of that.

A.E.:

The second largest orthodox congregation was Anshei Sfard, which was located on 1st Street near Walnut. The Rabbi when I came was Rabbi Chavel, later succeeded 9:00by Rabbi Roodman, who served for many years.

A.E.:

The second reformed congregation was Brith Sholom, which was located on the corner of 2nd and College. The Rabbi when I came was Rabbi Solomon [inaudible 00:13:26], who went into service during the war years, came back for a year, and then was succeeded by, I believe Rabbi Martin [inaudible 00:10:36], who served for a long time. There was an interim Rabbi during the war years. His name I do not remember, but he was a pretty good golfer.

N.P.:

Al, tell us something about the political situation as you saw it through the years?

A.E.:

When I came to Louisville, there was a Democratic mayor who had just succeeded a very popular Republican mayor by the name of Harrison. The Democrats pretty much dominated the political scene during most of the time that I've lived in Louisville. I do recall that, either in the late 40s or early 50s, I'm not sure of the timing on this, a prominent Jewish man by the name of Sidney Rosenblum was asked to run for mayor on the Republican ticket. He was very popular, probably could have been elected, but he was afraid that the fact that he was Jewish would not enable to him to be elected. So, he did not run. Some time in that same time period, Dan Bick, another prominent Jew, served as the President 11:00of the Board of Aldermen. There was a great deal of social and political furor around the Civil Rights movement, which began in the early 50s, perhaps even in the late 40s, I'm not sure of the timing on that, which preceded the Brown decision in 1954, which called for desegregated schools.

A.E.:

There was a Kentucky law called the Day Law, which forbade the schooling of black and white children together. It was mandated that they have separate schools, and that's what did exist here in the school system. There were a number of good black schools, but they were only for black children. There were a number of good white schools. They were only for white children. The residential pattern was segregated, partly because of the schooling and partly 12:00because of the fact that people in certain areas would not sell to black people.

A.E.:

There was a certain discrimination against Jews in terms of real estate. As a matter of fact, there was no law prohibiting the use of restrictive covenants, which were fairly widely used, particularly in the East end of Louisville, which was later struck down by the Supreme Court. The political situation remained fairly constant in terms of control by the Democrats as I mentioned earlier.

A.E.:

During the early 1950s, there was a good deal of excitement about the integration of black and white community efforts to sell real estate to blacks. It would cause some difficulty in the community, as a matter of fact, a great 13:00deal of difficulty in the general community. Jews participated in this to a large extent on the side of the breakdown of the barriers between the whites and the blacks. Prominent among these people was Arthur Kling, who helped establish the Kentucky Civil Rights, Kentucky American Civil Liberties Union chapter, sometime in the 50s.

N.P.:

Did you notice a lot of anti-Semitism?

A.E.:

There was little overt anti-Semitism, but there was a great deal of social discrimination. Jews were not acceptable in some, not too many to this date, Louisville Country Club, Pendennis Club, River Valley Club, [inaudible 00:14:53] would not accept Jewish members, or did not accept Jewish members. I don't know if there are that many in those organizations today. I believe the Pendennis may 14:00have one or two Jewish members, but I'm not certain. I believe the others still do not have Jewish members.

N.P.:

If I recall, Al, it seems to me that you did a great deal of work in the schools regarding this matter. Can you talk a little bit about that?

A.E.:

I was active with the Civil Liberties Union because of my interest in the development of opportunities for all people, regardless of religion or race. When I was Secretary of the YMHA during the war years, we had a young group worker by the name of Robert Weiner who came here from Cleveland, Ohio and stayed here for a few years. He made a great many efforts to bring some activity between the Jewish youth and the black youth in the community, and was able to 15:00develop a forum, which involved some of the prominent local speakers. We made an effort at that time to secure Male High School as a place where the forum could be held. Because of the Day Law, which I previously mentioned, the Board of Education refused to do this.

A.E.:

We enlisted the aid of Barry Bingham and the Courier-Journal, who was very helpful in bringing pressure to bear on the School Board to permit these interracial activities after school hours at Male High School at that time. We also had a number of black basketball teams come and play games against our young people, even though some of our Board Members objected at the time, the majority were very much in favor of this activity.

A.E.:

We had an interfaith, an inter-religious, interracial activity, social activity between black and white adolescents, and we wanted to hold this in one of the 16:00public parks, which was forbidden at that time. Parks were segregated. There were parks for the white people, and there was one park, Chickasaw Park, for the black people. We were able to get the permission of the Board of Aldermen after a great deal of debate, and this took place some time in the early 40s to hold such a picnic of black and white youth, probably the first time this had ever been done in Louisville and was not done for quite a few years after that.

A.E.:

An interesting sideline on the general attitude of the community about political situations in the world, was that I recall when I was secretary of the YMHA, a very, very, strong and even bitter debate about the admission of Arthur Kling to 17:00the Board of Directors of the YMHA. He had been elected or nominated before his election, and he had run for Socialist Mayor of the community in the early 1930s. In those days, people equated Socialists, Socialism with Communism. There was a great deal of negative feeling about Communists in this country. That was a very interesting experience that I had. In the end, the more liberal people on the Board prevailed, and Arthur Kling was elected to the Board and became, of course, very effective, and later went on to become President of the Board, in addition to many other communities, community activities that he did, in terms of bettering the life of people who were not as well off as some.

N.P.:

We were indeed lucky. Arthur was one of our great statesmen. Al, since you were 18:00here after World War II, and took part in working with some of the great wave of German immigrants who arrived, can you talk about that, please?

A.E.:

The Jewish Social Service Agency was the organization in the community that had been designated to accept, work, resettle the people who came out of the concentration camps. We settled several hundred of the people who had been fortunate enough to survive the concentration camps, then a few years of being in transit camps, either in Germany or in Italy. When they came to this country, the majority did not speak English, so we had developed programs to help them do that.

A.E.:

The vast majority remained in Louisville, but a substantial number moved to other communities to seek better employment opportunities, or to reunite with relatives or friends whom they finally located after they had been in this country for a number of years. There's still quite of few of the children of those people in this community who are providing substantial leadership in some areas and who accept, who were born in this country after we had a number of marriages, and so on. But a number of the people came who had married after they had been released from the concentration camps and met each other in the transit camps.

N.P.:

Those experiences are reminiscent of the great wave of Russian immigrants we're having today. Talk about the differences, because it is quite different.

A.E.:

The same agency, the Jewish Social Service Agency, now the Jewish Family Vocational Service, is responsible, bears the main responsibility for helping resettle the Russian immigrants who began coming in the 70s. I was also involved in the early ones who came here in helping them to resettle.

A.E.:

The major difference was that the Russian people who come here brought many skills that were useful in this country. They were not fleeing the kind of terror, although they were fleeing some oppression and some suppression of personal liberties, and came to this country in much better condition and better prepared to make a quick adjustment to this society. The people who came out of the concentration camps had been through several years of tremendous torture, pain, agony, despair, loss of people close to them, maybe the only survivors of 21:00large families, and it was a totally different problem in helping them to resettle, while it was amazing how quickly many of them made good adjustments, and we can be proud of the fact that this community did its full share in not only accepting, but helping these people to feel that they were accepted into the community, the congregation, the YMHA, now the Jewish Community Center, the Federation, formerly Conference of Jewish Organizations, all played vital roles in helping in this program.

A.E.:

I should mention that there were a large group of immigrants who came to this country in the middle to late 30s, who had been able to escape from Nazi Germany and get out before the Holocaust reached its fullest extent. They were a sizable 22:00group in the community. As a matter of fact, for a number of years, they had a German club at the old YMHA, which helped them to socialize among themselves. They were quickly assimilated into the general community, and, of course, most of those people are not alive, but their children are here and are active participants in the affairs of the community, both politically, socially and economically.

N.P.:

You've just spoken about the Jews that came before the war, and those who came after the war, and it seems to me that through the years, different waves of immigrants have had, correct me if I'm wrong, sort of in bunches. For instance, the Poles came over at one time. Can you talk a little bit about how we accepted those people?

A.E.:

There was a large immigration of Polish people who came after the 67 war in Israel when Poland had attempted to expel the Jews who had returned there to live. They who are living in this community now have made an excellent adjustment. Their children are accepted in all social activities, are active in the community. Many of them are economically successful, and they made a very quick adjustment.

A.E.:

I found that the people who lived in Louisville for each of these way of immigration, were very warm and very accepting and developed many programs socially, religiously. Our religious institutions have a great deal to do with it, as they are now doing with the Russians, and were very helpful in helping these people make a quick integration into the general activities of the community.

N.P.:

Al, you're professional position allowed you to work with so many of the Jewish 24:00families in Louisville. Can you talk a little bit about how our society has changed in regard to the family unit?

A.E.:

When I came to Louisville, the extended family was an accepted fact. Relatives would meet fairly regularly together. On holiday occasions, family units would get together. Some of that still exists, but a great deal of that has disappeared as we found less and less identification by many Jews with the total Jewish community. As I mentioned earlier, there's a great deal of social activity and social interchange between Jews and non-Jews in the areas, particularly in the Eastern part of the community, where neighborhoods are primarily, are not primarily Jewish as they were when I first came to Louisville.

N.P.:

How about the children, the transportation? What I mean by that, how the children get around, riding, all the things that involve children.

A.E.:

Today, most people transport their own children. The buses for the school systems did not exist, of course, when I came here. Children had to get, to find their own way to school. The majority of children went to school in neighborhoods where they could walk, except when they got to the High School level. That is not true anymore.

A.E.:

Many Jewish people are now using private schools, something which did not exist when I came to Louisville. All the Jewish children that I can recall went to 26:00public schools. I believe the attitude towards the public school system was that it was a pretty good one.

A.E.:

That attitude still prevails among a great many people even though the people of means are very apt to select privates schools, feeling that their children might get a better education. I'm not sure they're right.

N.P.:

Al, you've talked about the children, the family unit. How about the elderly? How did families deal with their parents and grandparents through the years?

A.E.:

When I came to Louisville, the general pattern was, if an aged person could not manage by themselves, they moved in with one of the children. There were a number of reasons for this. I think families felt closer knit of the responsibility. The social patterns were different. The opportunities in the community for any type of care outside of the home were negligible, and those 27:00that did exist were very poor, and nobody wanted to put any of their members of their family in those kind of places.

A.E.:

As a matter of fact, early on, when I came to Louisville, this seemed to be one of the very striking needs that the community had, someplace where Jewish people who were old and in need of special types of care, which really couldn't be provided in the home was not available. The few nursing homes were old homes that were badly run, poorly supervised, and people were very reluctant and did not use them.

A.E.:

This led to a development of a group of people in the early 40s who, primarily led by Mrs. Barnett Linker and Mrs. Shapiro of the Shapiro family, I don't remember her first name, I don't remember her first name, were very active 28:00leaders in this group. Later on, Herbert Hanmaker became a leader in the group. They organized to the point where they appeared before the Conference of Jewish Organizations, which is the forerunner of the Jewish Community Federation and asked them to help develop an institution of some type where people could receive this type of care.

A.E.:

The Conference of Jewish Organizations felt that it was not in a position to develop such an institution, and, as a result, the Jewish Social Service Agency, whose President at that time was Herbert Hanmaker, he [inaudible 00:29:58]the community for a mass meeting at the YMHA, which was held sometime in 1945. At 29:00this mass meeting, it was decided to form an organization called the Louisville Hebrew Home, and Carl Hellman was elected as its President. This later became the organization, which developed Four Courts, which was, I believe, opened in 1949 after a very successful community drive for funds spearheaded by Carl Hellman, Herbert Hanmaker, and many others. The organization today is being operated by the Jewish Hospital and is a very modern, excellently run institution for the care of older people who cannot live at home or live by themselves.

A.E.:

The pattern in terms of family responsibility really hasn't changed that much in terms of the feelings of the family, but the way that it's carried out is 30:00totally different. As I mentioned earlier, when I came in the late 30s, early 40s into the 50s, it was accepted that, if there was a problem of health or need for care for older people in the family, they went to live with a member of the family.

A.E.:

That is very much in the minority today, insofar as the procedures, and probably for the betterment of the family. It created many tensions in the families, which have led to difficulties between other members of the family, between the children and the grandchildren, which we felt was not very helpful to anybody, including the older person. The responsibility and the feeling of responsibility was such at the time that people did this regardless.

A.E.:

Today, the feeling of responsibility may remain the same, but the facilities that are available, and the use of them, is totally different.

N.P.:

Al, would you say that our Jewish community is a wealthier community now?

A.E.:

That's a difficult question to answer. I think you ought to ask the [inaudible 00:32:20] and insurance people that question.

A.E.:

I have a feeling, and I don't know this for a fact, that the middle class is better off today in the Jewish community than it was, merely in terms of the lifestyle. I really have no idea whether they have the resources to provide that lifestyle, but I have to look at the way they're living, and I would say that we have less people in the so-called poverty level, more people in the middle class level, and more people in the wealthy level. That's an opinion. I don't know if 32:00that's factual or not.

N.P.:

It's my opinion that we've always had our Jewish poverty. But, in the olden days, as the kids say, your agency, Jewish Social Service Agency, played a big part in taking care of these people. Do you think that still exists?

A.E.:

When I came to Louisville, the primary function of the Jewish Social Service Agency was to work with people who did not, who were in financial difficulty. Along with this, of course, we worked with social problems, emotional problems, but the [inaudible 00:33:45] organization did not employ people who had the skills to really work with people who were troubled emotionally and mentally.

A.E.:

As we developed a program for service, which was above that of just the people 33:00who did not have enough money to live on, there became more acceptance of the fact that the social agency such as the Jewish Family Vocational Service today, has a very important service to offer to people who have family problems, who have problems of adjustment to life unrelated to money. They're providing a very extensive service in that area now.

A.E.:

In addition, in the early 1940s, something I probably should have mentioned earlier, a committee, an ad hoc committee of people who were interested in providing better vocational opportunities for Jewish young people, came together on a voluntary basis. The leader of this group was Moses Masters, Arthur Kling, Joe Kaplan. They met a number of times and prepared a program, which they 34:00presented to the Conference of Jewish Organizations for the establishment of a Jewish Vocational Service in Louisville. The Conference did accept that responsibility, and sometime in the early 40s, the organization was established.

A.E.:

At that time, they brought a professional Executive Director for the organization who had experience in this field, whose name I'm having difficulty with right now, but I'll think of it in a minute, who worked a few years and was later succeeded by David Dobson, who built the organization into a rather substantial one and provided tremendous service in determining of school opportunities, helping test people about their abilities, counseling them about what their career goals might be. Today that is carried on through the merger of the Jewish Social Service Agency and the Jewish Vocational Service into the 35:00present Jewish Family Vocational Service.

N.P.:

Al, several times you've alluded to the fact that you were the Executive Director of the Jewish Community Center. When did that happen, and why did that happen, and did you also run the Jewish Social Service Agency?

A.E.:

I believe it was in 1942 that Lawrence Kirk was drafted into service. At that time, he was the Executive Director of the YMHA, the forerunner of the Jewish Community Center. I was asked if I would take the job on temporarily until a return from his service in the war. I agreed to do this, and I continued to serve as Executive of the Jewish Social Service Agency, and all I did was put in some 12 to 14 hour days, but I had a good time doing it.

A.E.:

It lasted about four years. During that time, we had a number of interesting activities, one of which I mentioned earlier, about the interracial programs 36:00that we did there. We also reestablished something that existed in the community here earlier, but had ceased to exist, and that was the Jewish Public Forum, which was community-wide in its nature. We brought outstanding speakers, we met at Adath Israel, we had substantial audiences of three, four or five hundred people from the general community, as well as from the Jewish community.

A.E.:

It was an interesting experience for me. When I left the YMHA on a part-time basis, the Conference of Jewish Organizations asked me to serve as Community Coordinator, along with my job at the Jewish Social Service Agency, and I served in that capacity for a good many years.

N.P.:

Al, we've come a long way, but I want to know, once again, what influenced you to take this job in Louisville and leaving Cleveland, a big city with so many opportunities?

A.E.:

A number of factors, of course, influenced me coming here. The first and major was the job opportunity that was presented to me, but, also, the people who interviewed me for the job, I've mentioned Victor Berger, who was President of the organization at that time, Herman Hanmaker, Max Waldman, among others, were very, very warm, cordial, and gave me the opportunity to do the kind of job that I felt that I could do here. But one of the things that really influenced my thinking, if I might have been on the edge, and I'm not sure that I wasn't on the edge at that time, was I came here in May for the interview, early May, just before Derby time, and they drove me through the parks, and everything was so beautiful. I remember the dogwoods were in full bloom, as were the redbuds, and 38:00I said to myself, "A city that has parks like this must be a pretty good place to live in." That really was a strong motivating factor, even though it was not the dominant one, of course.

N.P.:

That is such a beautiful thing to hear. I feel the same way. Al, we've moved along quite a bit. One last question. Can you tell us anything about your favorite memories, or what stands out in your mind about Louisville, and, also, if we've left anything out that you think is pertinent?

A.E.:

My favorite memories really have to do with people. I think of the great, great people who gave of their time, and their effort, and their concern, and their 39:00skills to help develop the Jewish community into the fine community it is today. I begin by thinking of Charlie Morris, of Charles Stroh, of Lewis W. Cole, the President Lewis Cole's father, of Herbert Hanmaker, of Max Waldman of Marshall Benziger. These were people who had real social concerns. Arthur Kling, his brother Morris Kling. Sidney Appel, who was the President of the YMHA during the 40:00years I served as Executive. Sam Briarfield, Will Heidelburg, people with real leadership ability who helped develop the present institutions we have, who deserve a great deal of credit should not be forgotten. Abe Berman, Fanny Rose, Rosenbaum, Helen Hellman, Betty Jane Fleischaker, women who played important roles in the development of our social institutions.

A.E.:

I'm sure I'm leaving out a lot of people that I would wish later that I 41:00mentioned, those are the ones who come to my mind at the moment.

N.P.:

And I would be remiss if I did not end this interview by also talking about what a great influence, positive influence, you had. These leaders all worked with you, were guided and directed by you, and we're happy you made, like our parks and came to our city. Thank you, Al, for a most interesting account. We appreciate it very much.