Interview with Murrel Klein, December 11, 1990

Betty Abramson:

This is Betty Abrahamson. Tonight I'm conducting an interview for the family history project, the Jewish Community Center, with Mr. Merl D. Klein. Merl, would you please give your name, your address, and phone number if you please.

Merl Klein:

My name is Merl D. Klein, K-L-E-I-N. My address is 5100 Brownsboro Road, Apartment 534. My telephone number is 426-8454.

B.A.:

Merl, would you please give me some information of your family? Your mother's name, your father's name.

M.K.:

My father's name was Frank Leon Klein and my mother's name was Ida [Notovsky 00:00:48] Klein, K-L-E-I-N.

B.A.:

Were they born in Louisville?

M.K.:

My mother was born in Louisville. My father was born in Russia.

B.A.:

Okay. Do you know why your father came to the United States and why your 1:00mother's parents may have come to the United States?

M.K.:

My mother's parents came to Louisville in 1859. My father's parents came in later, in the eighties to this country from Russia. My mother's parents came to Louisville in 1859 and joined the Adath Jeshurun congregation, which in those days was known as the Green Street Shul, located on Green Street, now Liberty Street, in Louisville.

M.K.:

They were among the oldest Jews to become members of that congregation and my family still is a member of Adath Jeshurun congregation all these years.

B.A.:

What was the name of that Green Street, what was the, was it called Adath Jeshurun then?

M.K.:

It was called the Greet Street Shul.

B.A.:

Yeah?

M.K.:

They-

B.A.:

How come they settled in Louisville, Merl?

M.K.:

The reason both sides of my family settled in Louisville was that they knew people from Russia who had already come to Louisville and told them what a good town Louisville was, so they came direct from New York, direct to Louisville to live here all the years of their lives.

B.A.:

And when were you born, if you don't mind my telling you, and where?

M.K.:

I was born June the 11th, 1905. I'm 85 years old. I was- my father was in business in Indianola, Mississippi and when my mother became pregnant, she came back to Louisville to her home town. I was born here at the Jewish Hospital in Louisville on Floyd and Kentucky Streets.

B.A.:

Merl, did you, were your grandparents, did they live close by? Did you have ants and uncles in the household when you were little?

M.K.:

When we first moved to Louisville from Mississippi in 1912, we lived at 944 South Brook Street in a home which my father bought. He went into the wholesale jewelry business at that time and we lived on Brook Street until we moved back to Arkansas, Helen, Arkansas and moved back to Louisville after I graduated high school from Helen, Arkansas in 1917.

M.K.:

From that time on, I've been a native Louisvillian and I've been here all the rest of my life.

B.A.:

Where did you live when you came back from Arkansas?

M.K.:

We lived on Brook Street, as I told you, but my memory goes back that when we lived in Mississippi and came to Louisville during the summer, I remember the YMHA on 1st and Walnut, where all the Jewish people used to go to take their baths, as the people who lived on Market Street between 1st and Floyd did not 4:00have bathing facilities in their homes and on Friday before the Sabbath, they went over to the YMHA and took a bath.

B.A.:

That's, that's really great. Did they live close enough?

M.K.:

The YMHA was at First on Walnut and all the Jewish people lived on Market Street, so there was only four or five blocks to walk and it wasn't difficult to get over to the YMHA.

M.K.:

When I left, during the summertime, when we came from Mississippi to Louisville, we stayed with my grandparents on Market Street at 128 East Market Street, which is on the third floor above a shoe store owned by Mr. Weinberg.

M.K.:

On those two blocks on Market Street, 99% of the streets were occupied by Jewish merchants and they- they constituted the people who lived there. Having no banks at that time, there was a gentleman named Mr. S. Heiman who ran a junk shop, a 5:00junk store, on Market Street between 1st and Brook, and all the Jewish people at that time gave him their money and he deposited same with the German American Bank at 2nd and Market.

M.K.:

When they needed money, they went to Mr. Heiman and he wrote out a check on his personal account and gave them the money because they had utter faith in him in keeping their money. He must've had 50 people who lived on Market Street taking care of their finances.

M.K.:

My memories in those days was [Taulstein's 00:05:38] Delicatessen at 1st and Market, where everybody who wanted a sandwich or corn beef or hot pastrami sandwiches could trade with Mr. Taulstein and he was the one, he cut the meat, he served the sandwiches, and he was the only one in the store and all the Jewish people who lived on Market Street traded in his place of business.

M.K.:

One other thing about the people lived on Market Street at that time did not have toilet facilities in their buildings. All the toilet facilities were on the outside of the stores and everybody used to use those facilities because that was all they had at that time, in those days.

B.A.:

In the backyard, I hope.

M.K.:

In the- it was all in the backyard. [inaudible 00:06:22] and all the Jewish people at [Fliggle's 00:06:25] Bakery at Floyd and Market Street and they used to get the Friday night trolley up there at [Fliggle's 00:06:32] Bakery and all the Jewish people used to go up there and buy their bread from this bakery.

M.K.:

And also, the meat market was run by Harry Klamer, whose nickname was [Yucki 00:06:41], and he and his brother and his sister ran this Jewish meat market on Market Street between Floyd and Preston. 305 East Market is the correct address, and they served all the people who kept kosher in Louisville, even in the later years, they delivered meat by wagon early in the morning so that the meat would 7:00not spoil before the dinner time when the folks would need it and they served the entire city of Louisville for kosher meats.

B.A.:

Thank you. What year are we talking about?

M.K.:

The year- the span of years that I'm talking about now runs from around 1910 to about 1916.

B.A.:

Do you remember any prices of any items at that time?

M.K.:

Oh, I don't know. Everything was cheap because the Jewish people at that time didn't have much money and they spent it wisely. In the evenings in the summertime, when it was real hot, everybody would sit out on the sidewalks and swing back and forth in chairs and that's where the [inaudible 00:07:38] used to be, on the sidewalk in the evening and during the summertime. And every, every- along every street between 1st and Floyd Street, were nothing but Jewish people sitting there talking about the events of the day.

B.A.:

Anything about family doctors?

M.K.:

My grandma's doctor was a man named Dr. Leon L. Soloman, who was her doctor and 8:00he used to come and visit her because she was on the third floor and he was the first- one of the first Jewish doctors here in the city of Louisville, and he treated all of the people on Market Street between First and Floyd, which is in my memory.

M.K.:

Dr. Soloman was their god. My mother had one brother, Saul Notovsky, who worked for Line, Lang, and Goldstein, and sold ladies skirts. My father had two brothers here in town- lived here in- that lived here. One was Sam Klein, who owned Klein Furnishing Goods Company, and my other uncle, Uncle Myer, was in business in Greenwood, Mississippi in the mercantile business. [interview cuts off 00:08:44]

M.K.:

Of all the boys and all the girls of our family, the only one.

B.A.:

You are an only child.

M.K.:

That's right. [interview cuts off 00:08:52]

M.K.:

Moved back to Louisville in 1912, but then my father had the opportunity to go in the mercantile business in Helen, Arkansas, where I spent my early youth and 9:00graduated from high school in 1921. We then moved back to Louisville in that year, and after my high school graduation, I went to Washington and Lee University in Lexington, Virginia, where I completed my undergraduate work and got a degree.

M.K.:

However, during the years where we lived in the summertime and I came here, I played baseball with the YM- in the YMHA league at 9th and Central in the old colored high school park behind the high school building, and I played baseball down there for 8 or 10 years with all of the fellas who were my age at that time in the league, which we had.

B.A.:

Do you remember any of their names?

M.K.:

Well, the fellas who played with me at that time are Harry Klein, my cousin, Abe Striker, Dr. Silas Star, Dr.- Dr. Goodman, who at that time was the oldest man in our league. He was in his 40s. He would practice medicine all day and all night and then come down and be a catcher on our baseball team and play with all these young boys.

M.K.:

Well, the baseball that I played was started in 1920, when I first came back to Louisville, then when I went off to college, I would only play in the summertime. However, the baseball games- league which I played, started in 1926, which I was living in Louisville at that time after graduating from college and I played until 1931.

B.A.:

When you were back here at that time, were you in the YMHA a lot during the summer?

M.K.:

Yeah, well we went over to the YMHA to play in our leagues we had to be paid up members. We had to pay $15 dues a year to play baseball and also to play 11:0010:00basketball at times because there were no free memberships allowed for the athletes who represented the YMHA and the intramural leagues here in town.

M.K.:

A cute story to tell you about the YMHA in the early days at 2nd and Jacob - when it was at 2nd and Jacob - there was a candy case on the bar and it used to be open until one of our Louisville citizens - a fella by the name of Victor Mature - who later became one of the biggest actors in the studios at that time, and he came in and he was caught one day taking two bars of candy out of the candy case for nothing [laughing 00:11:41]. And after that, they locked the candy case up [laughing 00:11:44], but he lived over on Camp Street and he was always come over to the center and take candy from the candy case.

M.K.:

In 1919, the YMHA bought the land out on River Road for a camp, and my daddy 12:00built a cottage out there where we lived during the summer. It was quite a place and it was a place where all the Jewish people congregated during the week, and especially on Sunday, when they had meals in the main dining room. At that time, there was about 12 cottages were built and people lived there during the summertime. During the wintertime, it was closed and isolated.

M.K.:

The picnic- the YMHA had picnics at that time out there and swimming parties and everybody really enjoyed the whole YMHA camp up on the river. I learned to swim across the river at that time and it was quite a- quite a feat being there.

B.A.:

How far would it be across the river?

M.K.:

Well, it was at least a mile across the river and back, so in those days, I could do it, but not today [laughing 00:12:52].

B.A.:

Well tell me, how did you get out? You said you lived out there in the summer.

M.K.:

Summertime.

B.A.:

Did your father commute back and forth?

M.K.:

Well, we had an old Ford and he used to ride back and forth. We had one of the 13:00old tin lizzies and my daddy would use that to drive in town and at the end of the day, he would come back out there and all this pals were living out there, so he had a good time and I had a good time with the boys and the girls there.

B.A.:

Tell me about the girls. Was there a lot of [crosstalk and the interview cuts off 00:13:19]-

M.K.:

Places and then we had plays out there which I remember my mother was part of the, did an act out there, that all the members of the camp used to become participants in the plays and the picnics that they had out there. It was quite a social place.

B.A.:

Oh, were- do you remember the names of any of the people that lived out there?

M.K.:

The people who owned cottages out there was Julius Kaplan, [Amil Artner 00:13:44], Rosenbergs. I remember [interview cuts off 00:13:48]

M.K.:

Also at the cottage out there, my father-in-law, Mose Marks had a cottage out there and that's where I met my wife and we had dates and we went dancing at 14:00the... My wife. Toby's family consisted of my father-in-law, Moses Marks and my mother-in-law, Pearl Marks. She had one brother, Herbert who married Till Marcus, who was a native Louisvillian, who had come back from Cleveland, and they lived here until both of their deaths.

B.A.:

Where did Mr. And Mrs. Marks come from? Were they born in Louisville?

M.K.:

They both were born in Russia.

B.A.:

Oh, do you have any idea where?

M.K.:

No, I haven't any idea.

B.A.:

What- do you know why they came to Louisville to settle?

M.K.:

My in-laws came to Louisville because they had family here at the time and they came together to be together in Louisville and they moved from Russia. Married and -

B.A.:

What- when did you and Toby meet, about what year?

M.K.:

We met about in nineteen twenty- I knew Toby from way back in the YMHA camp from 1920 when we were out there, but during the time that I was in college, I had no 15:00contact with her. It was only after I graduated from college and she was going with a fella, and I bet him a dollar I could make a date with her, and I made the date and finally, I wound up marrying her.

M.K.:

I was one of the original members of the Troop 30, which was a Boy Scout movement. It started at the YMHA. I remember in the early summer, when I was younger, we went out to the covered bridge at the Boy Scout camp where all the members of the Troop 30 went there and our scout leader was Oscar Leapson. I remember one particular instance, somebody put salt in his bed and he accused every one of our members of the troop as to who did it, but he never could find out, but we loved him just the same and he was quite- quite a gentleman and a good scout leader.

M.K.:

When we moved back to Louisville in 1912 from Mississippi, I attended the Louisville Hebrew school at Brook and Walnut Streets. I finished my Jewish education there and was bar mitvahed at the old B'nai Ya'akov Shul at Preston and Jefferson, where my grandfather, my father's daddy, was president of the Shul, and I said my maftir there. That was the time that I began to get my Jewish learning, which I kept up for the rest of my life, and have up until today.

B.A.:

Do you remember the rabbi at that time?

M.K.:

The rabbi at that time was a man named Rabbi A.L. Zarchy, Z-A-R-C-H-Y and he was a rabbi of B'nai Ya'akov Shul. The other rabbis in town were Rabbi Moses over at Adath Israel. I was bar mitvahed at the old B'nai Ya'akov Shul, and as usual, 17:00wore high pants- high knee pants when I had my picture taken and which my family [inaudible 00:17:07] has up today.

B.A.:

Do you remember any of the boys that were in your class in the Hebrew school?

M.K.:

The same gang who played basketball with me were all my buddies at that time, Harry Klein, Stanley Garfein, Nathan Handmaker, Milton Handmaker, Herman Handmaker, [Ed 00:17:27] Handmaker, Joe Garfein. We all were together at that time and we later became friends, which lasted over 50 years for all of us.

B.A.:

Some of the customs when you- when you were little-

M.K.:

The customs in our family on the Friday night, was [bench and lift 00:17:43] and saying the...before we ate, everybody made a [foreign language 00:17:51] we benched over wine. Just like all of the- most of the Jews who lived on Market Street were Orthodox Jews who came from Russia and they all had the same 18:00customs. On Friday night, everybody celebrate the Sabbath.

B.A.:

Did everybody basically go to shul then the next day?

M.K.:

Well, those who weren't in business went to Shul, but those on Market Street, they had to make a living. They stayed open from the dry goods merchants to the furniture merchants. My father's family, my grandmother and grandfather, on my father's side emigrated to Israel in 1923 and they died in Israel, where they're buried as of today. My grandfather on my mother's side died right after I was born in 1905 and my grandmother died in 1919 during the flu when I was in college and I came home for the funeral.

B.A.:

What made your father's parents go to Israel at that time, Merl?

M.K.:

Well, because they wanted to go back to the old country and live. They liked the 19:00old, the customs of Jews living in Israel, so they decided to go back there and live- live out the rest of their lives, which they did. They died in 1926.

B.A.:

Did they have family that lived in Israel?

M.K.:

They were there, but they had no family. They just decided to go and they picked up and left.

B.A.:

That sounds so very unusual. Did your parents ever go over to visit them? Did your father-

M.K.:

No, my father-

B.A.:

-ever go over to visit them in Israel at the time?

M.K.:

My cousin, Harry Klein, went over and visited their graves in the early 70s and we found the graves on a high mountaintop and we erected a monument for over their grave, which they still have today. Got a medal. I still got it here from the French army.

B.A.:

In World War 1, you sold bonds?

M.K.:

Yeah, we were 13. We worked. And during the- during World War 1 when I was 13 years old, we worked selling war bonds. As a result, they had a big shindig out at Central Park out on 4th Street and all of the Jewish boys who worked were 20:00given medals by the French government at that day where they had a big celebration and event for the selling of war bonds in this country.

M.K.:

When I graduated from high school in Helen, Arkansas in nineteen seven- 1921, there were three boys and nine girls in our class. There were two scholarships and the one of the boys went to Rice University in Houston, Texas, and I took the Washington and Lee scholarship was $80 a year at that time. And nobody in my family had ever gone to college and my uncle who was in Greenwood, Mississippi in the mercantile business, he sent me two suits of clothes so I would have some clothes to wear up there [laughing 00:20:49]. And I tell you, I spent four years up there, which were four of the better years of my life in my younger days of Washington and Lee. And I came out of there, I thought it was pretty good after 21:00graduating, it was a business degree.

B.A.:

Did you maintain any friendships that go back-

M.K.:

Oh, I have lots of friends and boys. Especially I joined a Jewish fraternity there. The Zeta Beta Tau and the fellas who at my age today, quite a few of them have passed away, but there's a few of us. Martin Spectro from Florida, myself, we're very good friends today. And in nineteen- my 50th anniversary when Toby and I went up there in 1975. I graduated in 1925. In 1975, Toby and I went back to Lexington, Virginia to attend my 50th anniversary of graduation and I met a professor there who was there and I walked in and had not seen him since I graduated and he says, "Hello, Lefty." After all these years. 50 years, he remembered my nickname. And he said to me, "You know, the only class you ever got a C in was my French class, but you were a good boy and I gave you a C 22:00because I liked you."

M.K.:

I still am very active in the Washington and Lee Alumni Association here in town, which we have about 400 members who have graduated from the school who live here in the Louisville area. The year after I graduated from college, I took a job working at the YMHA as a business agent for the Chronicler, which was the maga- monthly magazine that the YMHA put out at that time, and I used to go out and solicit ads for them, and be the general flunky around the YMHA. I stayed there from September of 1925 until March 1st, 1926, which I went in the insurance business, and still am in it after 63 years. And I'm still selling insurance for a living.

B.A.:

What- this is when you became active, when you were back in Louisville in the 23:00YMHA, as far as your athletics, correct?

M.K.:

When I graduated from college and worked at the YMHA in the fall of 1925, I went out for the basketball team and played from 1926 through 1931, six years in the major fall city league, as a center. I weighed- I was 5'11" and weighed 123 pounds in jump center. In those days, as a quirk, we had to go back and jump center after every basketball basket.

B.A.:

Now, the YMHA was in a league-

M.K.:

We were- the YMHA was in the fastest league here in the community, and in 1928, we won 19 and didn't lose any games and we went to Philadelphia and played in the national YMHA tournament. However, we did not win it.

B.A.:

Do you remember any of the fellas who were on the team with you?

M.K.:

I remember them all.

B.A.:

Tell me about them.

M.K.:

The fellas who were on the team with me was our coach was Poachy Marks, Harry Klein, Joe Garfein, Gus [Marglen 00:24:11], Red Marglen, Sammy Handmaker, Omara White, Dave Brownstein. In those days- in those days we played colleges like University of Michigan and U of L because they weren't in any league at that time. In my days, when I played, we played U of L three times during the six years that I played. We beat them all three times, badly.

B.A.:

Did you get to travel when you played University of Michigan or did they come here?

M.K.:

No, that was before my time. The year before I started, the YMHA played the University of Michigan. Julius Joseph and his bunch were still playing at that time and they quit and then the younger group came in, which was my gang.

B.A.:

How long did you play basketball?

M.K.:

I played basketball for the center, for the YMHA, for six years, then I got married in 1931 and I figure I better stay with my wife instead of playing basketball.

B.A.:

What date did y'all get married? What's your wedding date?

M.K.:

We got married on March the 22nd, 1931 and it will be 60 years this coming March in 1991, for us, Lord willing.

B.A.:

And you and Toby have children?

M.K.:

We have two girls, Frankie and Arlene. They both are married. Frank is married to Harold Garden and Arlene is married to Harvey Kaufman. Each of those two have two children and we have two great-grandchildren as a result of our grandson, Doug Garden, whose married to Karen Fisher, and all of our family live here in Louisville.

B.A.:

Do you know were most of them born in Louisville - your son-in-laws, were they born in Louisville?

M.K.:

All my family were born here in Louisville.

B.A.:

How many generations does that make up to be born in Louisville?

M.K.:

Well, the generations that go back as far as me is myself. My daughters, my grandchildren, and my great-grandchildren all were born here in Louisville, and all of them, even the little one, three years old, he likes - he likes the shul, Adath Jeshurun.

B.A.:

And you belong to Adath Jeshurun, right?

M.K.:

I belong to four congregations here in town, but Adath Jeshurun is my main one, having been a president there in 1938 when I was 33 years old. When Toby and I got married at the Kentucky Hotel in 1931, we had five rabbis there. Rabbi Gitelman, Rabbi [Mendulbaum 00:26:42], Rabbi [Zarchy 00:26:43]. Rabbis, the one from- one from Adath- from Anshei Sfard congregation and the other one from the Green Street Shul at 11th and Jefferson. [interview cuts off 00:26:56]

M.K.:

The first board of directors that I went on was in 1927 at the Jewish Hospital, 27:00which today I am a life member. Then I became active in our Jewish congregation, the Adath Jeshurun congregation in 1931, when my father passed away and I went there for Yahrzeit. As a result of that, being on that board, in 1938 at the age of 33, I became the president of the congregation.

M.K.:

In 1934, the first year the United Jewish Campaign became effective in Louisville as a result of Colonel Fred Levy and Charles W. Morris. I took cards and worked on them, and I'm the only Jewish person in Louisville who has worked on every campaign since 1934 and it's 1991 today.

M.K.:

I also was on the U of L Athletic Association, the National Conference for 28:00Christians and Jews, the Standard Club, which I became a member in 1937. I've been on their board of directors.

B.A.:

Tell me about YMHA. Were you ever on their board of directors?

M.K.:

I was on the YMHA board, too. And I got many honors being Man of the Year and Bond Salesman of the Year, and a lot of other things that are too numerous to mention.

B.A.:

What do you remember, say about the YMHA was much of your social life - did it revolve around the YMHA?

M.K.:

In the early days the social life was all at- it was the only place the Jewish people could go was there, especially during the war when they had all the soldiers would come in and stay there and the young girls would have dances there every Saturday night for the soldiers.

B.A.:

World War 1, World War 2?

M.K.:

World War 2.

M.K.:

Upstairs in the gym, they would put beds and the boys would sleep up there so they wouldn't have to pay money to go to hotels, and they had the brunches in 29:00the morning on Sunday mornings downstairs in the basement. Lots of women who worked as volunteers, including my mother, who was quite an active person there, as well as my mother-in-law, and they would furnish the boys with a good hearty breakfast and especially a lot of the boy soldiers who came there were non-Jewish boys and after the war, many of them remembered that the- how wonderful they were treated in Louisville by the Jewish people. And they sent letters and money to the YMHA. [interview cuts off 00:29:26]

M.K.:

Louisville, to be a good person, you have to belong to a different organization. You go from the Mizrachi up to the Mizrachi down. Any woman who belongs in Louisville belongs to eight women's organizations besides the congregations that the husbands belonged to.

M.K.:

If you're of the orthodox faith, you go to the Mizrachi, the Hadassah, et 30:00cetera. If you belonged to the temple, you belonged to the Jewish Council of Jewish Women and the- the other affiliate organizations, but Louisville in my opinion has the best women's record of people who belong to different organizations here and who give the greatest amount of money in proportion of any city in the United States, as a result of the women's organizations in the United Jewish Campaign.

M.K.:

In 1970... I've also been on the board of the Jewish Community Federation, and in 1970, I was president for three years. Having been chairman of the UJC drive in my life, once in '44 and once in '75.

B.A.:

Anybody particularly in Louisville, any men, women that were your role models?

M.K.:

One of my role models was Charles W. Morris, an attorney who was a partner of 31:00another lawyer here in town, boy named Frank [Garlove 00:31:08], who we were kids in Mississippi and who helped put me in business with my partner, Bob Apple. Charlie Morris was the man who started the Jewish Community Federation here in town and got all three of the different sects, the Orthodox, the Reforms, and the Conservative Jews, all to come together - and that's a formation - in '34. And that's when he started the Jewish Community Federation.

M.K.:

His main theme was, don't argue. Everybody be together. Have kosher meals and raise money for the Jewish organizations.

B.A.:

What -do you have any special memories about the flood, Merl? Tell me about some of them.

M.K.:

In 1937 during the flood, our office was in the Starch Building, so we moved it 32:00over on 7th Street in the building that my Uncle Harry Marks owned and we operated our insurance agency there. I worked for father up at Saint Francis of Rome. I carried supplies for him and worked up there for the whole time during the flood. It was quite an event.

M.K.:

Everybody was riding in boats and everybody was worried about the whole city being flooded, but after The Brown Hotel on 4th and Broadway, got six feet of flood, and then it kind of slowed down and then the town started coming back normal. But during those years, everybody would work together and we were - had to take supplies and medical supplies all over town and I worked up at Saint Francis of Rome. I was very familiar up there for having played basketball for the YMHA up there, and I knew the Father and all the boys up there, so I was 33:00right in home.

B.A.:

You like sports pretty well, don't you, Merl?

M.K.:

Yeah. The man who created the Jewish Community Center to where it is today out there on [interview cuts off 00:33:20] Lane, was a man by the name of Sydney Apple. He was the brains behind it. He was president of the center and notwithstanding all the other presidents and everything, it was in his mind to build a new building because the one at 2nd and Jacob was getting old and getting too small.

M.K.:

Ben Washer, an attorney who was a benefactor of the YMHA, offered them a piece of property at 5th and Kentucky and after looking it over, it was decided it was too small. Then a committee with Abe Berman and Sydney Apple and Joe Kaplan and 34:00several others, they went out and selected a site out on Dutchmans Lane, which was unoccupied at that time and we decided- they decided along with the other fellas who were on the building committees to put it up out there because most-E90% of the Jewish people at that time lived in the East End and it made it more accessible to go to this new building, which would be on Dutchmans Lane than to be at 5th and Kentucky and have to go all the way downtown.

B.A.:

Were you- do you remember anything about raising the money for the new center?

M.K.:

We all worked on the campaign to raise the money and we did it without any difficulty and the building was built. Then later, in the later years, we just completed the other $5 million addition, which I also worked on for them, and we have one of the outstanding Jewish Community Centers in the United States today. I hate to mention this, but I have two daughters who have been president out there.

B.A.:

Really? Tell me about your daughters who are president [laughing 00:35:03] .

M.K.:

My oldest daughter, Frankie Garden, became the first woman president about four or five year ago and she's been a constant worker out there. Also helping them with their bingos on Thursday night. This is- she's in her eighth year as head of the bingo. At the present time, my younger daughter, Mrs. Arlene Kaufman, is now president out there and in my opinion, the Jewish Community Center is becoming quite an attraction here in the community.

M.K.:

Doing things that have never been done before and creating quite an interest for all the people and people are really loving going out there.

B.A.:

During the flood, where did you live? You and Toby.

M.K.:

[inaudible 00:35:53]

B.A.:

Tell me about the places that you and Toby have lived since you married.

M.K.:

In 1931, when Toby and I got married, we lived in an apartment, in a Douglas Apartment, on the third floor. We lived there for about three or four years. We 36:00then moved over on Douglas, further down, in the 1800 block where we lived. My mother came to live with us and we lived on the second floor of a dwelling on that street. Then later, we bought a house on Eastern Parkway, where we lived for about eight years and then I bought a house over on Woodford Place, where we lived after my mother passed away. We lived there until 1980, where we moved out here to the condo in Glenview.

B.A.:

Many of your neighbors were, were -they're many people who lived around you at these various places, that you became friends with?

M.K.:

It's ironical to say, that any Jewish person who lived in the East End of 37:00Louisville had friends who lived in approximately close by and within driving distance. Distance wasn't a factor as far as friendship was concerned in the city of Louisville if you were Jewish and lived in the East End.

M.K.:

The people who lived in the West End started to migrate up to the East End, if I may use that word, migrate. And as a result, today, I would say 99% of the Jewish people live in the East End of Louisville, or its vicinities.

B.A.:

I don't want to put you on the spot, but could you tell me something about your friends and you and Toby and your friends that have been life-long friends that you're close to?

M.K.:

My life-long friends most was Nathan Handmaker who passed away. Red Garfien, who was friendly with me. Harry Corn, who was athletic director at the center, Harry Linker. Today, our friends, all of us, we live in the condo and all my friends 38:00live here; the Garrens, the Ziegers, et cetera. We all get together. Dr. Ringo, my dentist, we all live here and as I stated before, distance is not a factor as far as friendship here in Louisville. We all are close to the Jewish Community Center and if you don't go there, you go to your synagogue and that's the story.

B.A.:

Are you interested in any sporting activities?

M.K.:

The only thing I do today is play golf and I'm very poor. I used to have a 17 handicap. Today I have a 29. I know where the ball is supposed to go, but at 85, I just can't hit it where it's supposed to go.

B.A.:

Do you attend any sporting events?

M.K.:

Which ones don't I miss? That's the deal. I go to all of them. The football- I'm very active at U of L football, U of L basketball, the Jewish Community Center sports, the Louisville Baseball Redbirds. Now that we got hockey in Louisville, 39:00I'm getting ready to go see a hockey game. Having been- having seen the hockey team when it was here 10 years ago and enjoyed down there then at the Armory.

B.A.:

Do you ever go to a horse race?

M.K.:

That's one of my vices. My buddy, Dr. Gerald Marx, M-A-R-X, and I go to Keeneland. We go to Turfway. We go to Ellis Park. We go to Churchill Downs. We are [inaudible 00:39:32] of the racetrack and are known by all the people on the front side and the back side, but we go there and we bet very smart and we don't lose lots of money, although we don't win anything.

B.A.:

Have you been to Israel, Merl?

M.K.:

I've been to Israel three or four times. My first time I went there was in 1970, right after the war. I went over with a group of five fellas here from Louisville. Lewis Cole, Sam Fishman, Bernard Berman, Waldman and myself. We were 40:00there for 8 days. We visited the [inaudible 00:40:10], flew around in a Sidley English airplanes. The Sidleys, they were 50 years old and we flew around in Israel. We visited all around and we stayed at the Hilton Hotel there in Jerusalem. We had a wonderful time, saw all the sites, and really enjoyed it and went back the second and third time. It's a wonderful place to go if you've never been.

B.A.:

Did Toby ever go with you?

M.K.:

Toby never went. Toby- the only trip Toby ever took was to Italy and England and France in the earlier days right before we got married and I used to get letters from her there.

M.K.:

During the 6- right before the 6 Day War, a group of us made a trip to England, France, and Italy, where we spent 10 days. While we were in Paris, staying at 41:00the Continental Hotel, we came down on the elevator one day and there was a Jewish fella operating the elevator and he says to me, "Israel is at war." I said, "What do you mean?" He says, "War has been declared." And that was the first thing we knew about it, that war had been declared. We found out in Paris.

B.A.:

Oh how did you find- could you speak French? Did you understand?

M.K.:

This, this fellow -we spoke Jewish [laughing 00:41:47]. That's how we knew we were, me with our guttural Jewish and he with his Jewishness, we got together and did very well. There's an old adage, the Jewish people who pray together, stay together, and that's what I try to do to get my family and I've been very successful. We all get together on the holidays. We get together on Friday nights and that's what's keeping us going.

B.A.:

That's beautiful. I mean, do you spend the time with your children on Friday nights?

M.K.:

On Friday night, it's a rule. All my family have to be together. We eat together and we pray together and it's been very successful over the years. Even the younger ones like it. The grandchildren, the great-grandchildren, the son-in-laws, the daughters, my wife and I, everybody loves to be together on Friday night. We have a regular Jewish meal.

B.A.:

Thank you, again, Merl. It's really been great. You have done so much for Louisville and I can tell the pride that you've got in Louisville. It's shining in your eyes all the time, both you and Toby. You've been involved in so many things, and it's an asset to the Louisville community that you are part of it and I'm so glad that I have known you over the years.

B.A.:

Thank you so much.