Interview with Louis Schwartz, August 20, 1990

Betty Bronner:

Good evening. This is Betty Bronner. It's August 20th, 1991 and we are conducting an interview for Jewish family history at the Jewish Community Center this evening.

B.B.:

I have the pleasure of presenting Mr. Louis Schwartz who has consented to share his recollections with us. Mr. Schwartz, would you give us your name and if you like your present address?

Louis Schwartz:

Louis Schwartz. 5100 Highway 42, apartment 514, zip code 402401.

B.B.:

That's good. I thank you, and could you tell us how your family originally came to Louisville?

L.S.:

We came by way of Cincinnati, from New Jersey and I had a brother in Cincinnati. We went into the men's shoe business together. He being experienced in ladies shoes and within 13-14 months I came to Louisville and opened up here too.

B.B.:

And before your family was in Cincinnati, where did they come from? Europe then? Were there those who came from Europe a generation ago or two generations ago?

L.S.:

No, I'm talking about my present life. What brought me to Louisville.

B.B.:

Itself right.

L.S.:

But my folks came over in the 1890's or 1880's.

B.B.:

In the very early wave of immigration?

L.S.:

Yes, from Vilnius Lithuania... by way of Germany.

B.B.:

Which is-

B.B.:

Oh, by way of Germany?

L.S.:

Mm-Hmm (affirmative) and they settled in New Jersey. Paterson, New Jersey.

B.B.:

Was there someone in New Jersey that they came to that place?

L.S.:

I do not remember that, of having them come or somebody sponsoring them. But, probably someone did because emigration at that time was quite open.

B.B.:

I didn't realize that in the late 1800's... The quotas were not so stringent.

L.S.:

No they weren't. And they settled there and they opened a grocery store.

B.B.:

That's wonderful.

L.S.:

And as a matter of fact, catering to the Jewish families in Paterson, they were the outstanding store.

B.B.:

That's marvelous.

L.S.:

They carried very high grade merchandise, fresh fish that came from the [inaudible 00:03:21] every week. The people would come and select, and it would be delivered to their homes, or they could take it with them. They would place an order.

B.B.:

We don't have that anymore.

L.S.:

No, it's old fashion.

B.B.:

That's right, and when you came then to Louisville, can you tell us something about what Louisville was like at that time?

L.S.:

Well, it was not a cosmopolitan city, but it was getting there. I think today it is a cosmopolitan city and... It was in 1941 that I opened the store here.

B.B.:

You want to give us the name of the store?

L.S.:

It was Jeff's Men's Shoes Incorporated. In fact, we were incorporated in the Ohio Cincinnati store, under Ohio laws. And within a very short time, I brought my family from Cincinnati to Louisville.

L.S.:

At that time it was very hard to find an apartment and homes were scarce too, because it was just the beginning of the Cold War.

B.B.:

Mr. Schwartz, I understand that you had some interest in an apartment at one 5:00time? And what year was that?

L.S.:

It was 1941, I didn't have an interest in the apartment, but I was looking for an apartment, and they were as scarce as hen's teeth. At that time, at the beginning of the Cold War... And I finally knocked on somebody's door and I asked if there's any apartments vacant? And he said "no," he says, "however, I'm moving, I'm being transferred by Ford motor company to Detroit and this one will be available".

L.S.:

He recommended me to the landlord, the owner of the apartments, and the owner came to visit me at my business and walked out; didn't say boo to me. Two days later he called and told me to pick out my wallpaper [Wellandor 00:06:02] 6:00Brothers Publics in Wellandor, which was right next door to my store and to pick out wallpaper and have it decorated.

B.B.:

And there was no limit to-

L.S.:

To the amount of the wallpaper, in other words, there was no limit, and they painted the apartments, and it was just immaculate when they got through with it, which is something they don't do today.

B.B.:

You definitely don't find that now.

L.S.:

I experienced the same thing in my business when I leased the [inaudible 00:06:44] store. They asked me what they could do for me? I said, well, I'd want to fix it up, the walls, the heating, it was an old ramshackle cafe and restaurant.

B.B.:

I didn't know that.

L.S.:

So they split it up. There was a hole in the wall where one could walk through 7:00the other. They patched it up, and they gave the contract to Ailey Bornstein, who later, I became a very good friend. We became very good friends, and they did a beautiful job, did everything I asked him to, the windows, the measurements, and everything as I asked. So, everything was done, which again you don't find today in today's business.

B.B.:

No definitely not.

L.S.:

They lease to you and you do the rest.

B.B.:

That's right. Would you tell us please about your finding your way to Louisville, so to speak?

L.S.:

Well, We were in business, my brother and I in Cincinnati. And we made new 8:00friends there. I was a stranger to Cincinnati. He lived there, and they suggested, we can look at Louisville. So he got in touch with his brother-in-law who lived in Louisville, happened to be named Harry Resnick, who was very active in the Jewish community. So, I looked around and, looked around, and I finally found the spot I wanted, which was just a short distance from the 100 Percent Corner of Louisville at that time. And I have leased the... I mentioned this story didn't I?

B.B.:

I think, yes.

L.S.:

That's how I arrived in Louisville was through Lewis Click who was married to 9:00Sylvia Click of the...

B.B.:

Can you tell us something about Fourth Street which was such a busy street in those days?

L.S.:

Well in those days there was Jewish merchants galore. In fact, they dominated more of downtown then I would say the Gentiles. And it was [Bic's 00:09:46], Apples, Salomon's, Helfman Strauss, [Levy Brothers 00:00:09:59], Lovin' Hearts, Younger Furrier's, the [Bonton 00:10:00], [Lipshitz Bookstore 00:10:06], which was quite famous and [Mosin 00:10:03] King, Ben Singer furniture, Will's Sales 10:00Furniture and numerous others too numerous to mention.

B.B.:

That's quite a few. You were talking about lighting.

L.S.:

Oh, when Bruce Hoblitzell was mayor of Louisville, there was a new light, an arch type light came out. And he told us that if we raised a certain amount of money, he would match it with city funds, which was to take care of Market Street.

L.S.:

I was on a committee of these to solicit funds, the matching funds. My territory 11:00was between Liberty and Market Street. One of our leading merchants would not contribute. So, during the committee meeting. I mentioned that fact and someone suggested contacting Mary Helen Beck which I did, and she talked to this merchant and he gave a very fine contribution.

L.S.:

So, Mary Helen Beck really had some clout and she was a lovely woman. The president of B'nai B'rith at 1942 was Milton Pearlman. And he came to me, and 12:00asked me if I would share the bond drive, the war bond drive in the World War Two. And I said I would. And we raised millions of dollars for the bond drive for several years. And of course we were acknowledged by Henry Morgenthau who happened to be the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States.

L.S.:

And we worked with people at Fort Knox on this deal. They were very helpful and B'nai B'rith did a wonderful job. I had a committee that did a wonderful job. You can understand that raising several million dollars was no easy task for 13:00just the Jewish faith.

B.B.:

And for a city like this one.

L.S.:

And a city of this size. Yes. Then later on I was asked to become treasurer of B'nai B'rith, which I was for several years. And I worked on all kinds of drives, UJC and United Jewish Appeal. I mentioned that... And the United that Appeal out of the area.

B.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative) like Metro.

L.S.:

Metro United Appeal, it wasn't called Metro in those days, it was United Appeal and B'nai B'rith was very active-

B.B.:

It was.

L.S.:

...in civic affairs.

B.B.:

Do you have any idea what the size of the Jewish community was in those days?

L.S.:

At that time I was told I was around 1200.

B.B.:

So that was a lot of work for a few people.

L.S.:

Yes. And raising that kind of money amongst that group of families was no easy task.

B.B.:

No, I'm sure it wasn't.

L.S.:

The Rabbi... I was a member of Out of Israel, which had our synagogue on Third Street between York and Breckenridge. And Dr. Rao of course was an avid Zionist. 15:00He was against the state of Israel in the beginning. However, after one visit to Israel he came back and told me that he has changed, and he made trips there every year. Usually he'd come in and get a new pair, rubbers, before he went to Israel. Always had rubbers, rubbers and an umbrella.

B.B.:

I guess he needed it.

L.S.:

Yeah. And when he came back, he would stop in the store, and we'd sit down and talk about his experiences. And he was amazed of how the changes were being made in Israel.

B.B.:

So by going back he saw so many.

L.S.:

Yes, and he was a wonderful person and a very dear friend.

L.S.:

I was born in Paterson, New Jersey in 1903 and the city at that time was quite a bedlam, in bedlam because of the strike situation. The IWW Industrial Workers of the World were trying to organize the silk workers, which was called, Paterson New Jersey, was called a Silk City of the world. And, it was rather a hectic town at the time of this organization work.

L.S.:

And, as a little fellow, I went to school, which was a couple of blocks away, 17:00public school and we were more or less in the neighborhood of, you might call it the ghetto. However, we were only two blocks from the Main Street, and we had a mixture of Irish, Italian. As a matter of fact, Abbott and Costello of Abbott and Costello, his father had a restaurant right around the corner, and it's quite a mixture of people and merchants as it was in Louisville.

L.S.:

As a youngster I grew up and I guess you'd never heard of a child being run over by a horse and wagon? And I was, however, I was on a bicycle and I ran into this horse and wagon and they ran over me.

B.B.:

Oh my goodness.

L.S.:

However, when I got home that night, there was no damage to me, but I was spanked by my parents, by my father.

L.S.:

We had our customers, as I grew up on election night, we gathered all the wooden barrels in the backyards of people of the homes, and we started the fire right in the middle of the street. That was always an election ritual. And, that was part of our custom and every year, and of course, we had fights with the different neighborhoods, different people. The Italians they were just a block away from their neighborhood. And then the Irish and Jew's seemed to get along 19:00pretty well.

B.B.:

Is that right?

L.S.:

Yeah. The synagogue was about three blocks away. My folks were very Orthodox. I went to the private, had a private tutor, and the one thing I can remember, he used to feed me a piece of bread to keep me interested. And that was every afternoon after public school.

B.B.:

About what age was this?

L.S.:

This was around 10 and 11 and so on. And he was one of the foreigners from the old country. But he was a very gentle man, and the world of patience.

B.B.:

And he came to the house?

L.S.:

No, I came to his place.

B.B.:

You went to his home.

L.S.:

Yes, where it was quiet, and we had appointments. At that time there was private, each person had his own appointment.

B.B.:

And was there Sunday school?

L.S.:

Yes, there was Sunday school. And I remember one event on Yom Kippur of course, the older parents went to synagogue, and they stayed there all day. And, one year I did not show up to kiss my father and greet him as all the young people were supposed to do, and he wouldn't talk to me for weeks. And that was my 21:00punishment for not coming to see him that year. Well, I never missed a year after that.

B.B.:

It worked.

L.S.:

It worked. Horses pulled the streetcars.

B.B.:

The horses pulled the streetcars?

L.S.:

Right. In the early years.

B.B.:

And were are they on tracks?

L.S.:

Yes, they were on tracks and one horse would, because the wagons were small. Horse and wagons and a driver, and then there was a conductor, as you might see on Fourth Street Today. However, it's a one man deal on Fourth Street and they were on tracks... There were automobiles, but they were in their infancy and 22:00along about, 1908 or something like that or a little earlier than that, there were some automobiles coming out and the horses became bewildered when these things came by them.

B.B.:

I guess so.

L.S.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, along Fourth Street, there were wells, and many other streets in the downtown area. And some of the buildings here got their water supply from these Wells.

B.B.:

I didn't know that.

B.B.:

And they must've been quite deep?

L.S.:

They were very deep. And, there were stories about streetcars falling into the wells.

B.B.:

I remember cars did that.

B.B.:

And was that water connected with the river? Did it flood when the river flooded?

L.S.:

No, this was wells, pure wells not from the river. I don't know where the water came from-

B.B.:

Maybe artesian wells.

L.S.:

Probably. I know the Seelbach Hotel used to get their... They would sell the steam to other buildings from the water through their boilers. They supplied many buildings with heat.

B.B.:

I never knew that. And what were the hotels that were here? The Seelbach.

L.S.:

Well, you had the Seelbach, you had the Brown Hotel, and what... and the 24:00Kentucky Hotel and there was one at 6th and Main Street. There was a hotel there, which later became a restaurant.

B.B.:

That wasn't the Milner?. There was a Milner.

L.S.:

No, the Milner was at 3rd and Market Street and those were the only ones that I remember.

B.B.:

Right. But they were going pretty well then, downtown in those days?

L.S.:

Yes, yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

B.B.:

Unlike today.

L.S.:

And I don't know whether, some of you people, there was a basement in the Seelbach Hotel. It is a very beautiful place. As a member of the Downtown Retail 25:00Merchants, we used to hold meetings there, and we'd have dinner.

B.B.:

That was the Rathskeller?

L.S.:

The Rathskeller, that's right. And, later on as a member of the Louisville businessman's club, which was a different club than the downtown merchants. We used to hold our meetings at the Seelbach at one time, and then Kentucky and the Henry Clay Hotel, which was owned by the Weyland brothers at that time.

B.B.:

I didn't know that.

L.S.:

Yes.

L.S.:

At Derby time these trains used to come from all over the country, and they 26:00would back into the tracks there at 10th and Broadway and they were sleepers, pullman cars. The people slept right on the trains during their stay here. Downtown Louisville, Fourth Street in particular was just a hub of people from all over the world, that would come to the Kentucky Derby.

B.B.:

Pretty clothes.

L.S.:

Beautiful clothes and as a merchant we had some of our biggest days around Derby time. They came from all over.

B.B.:

And how did they get to the track?

L.S.:

By the buses or trolleys.

B.B.:

The trolleys ran all the way out there?

L.S.:

Yes. Forth Street trolley ran all the way out to the track. [inaudible 00:27:08]

B.B.:

Right. I want to thank you so much for all of your time given to help us and to do this valuable tape, which I know will be wonderful for your grandchildren from now on.

L.S.:

Thank you very much, Betty.