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Jack: All right, it looks like we've got some recording going here. This is Sunday April 7th, I believe, 2013. It's a spring-like day. The birds are singing, flowers are blooming, and we're talking to the Deutsch family. Beautiful day. We have Elsie Deutsch with us. Hello, Elsie.

Elsie: Hi.

Jack: And, her son George.

George: Hey, Jack.

Jack: And Sandy, George's wife and Elsie's sister-in-law.

Sandy: Hi.

Jack: We're going to talk about some memories of farms, and talk about listening to WHAS, or just radio in general, and how it all went. Let's start with you, Elsie. I'm stepping over my bounds here by asking a lady her age, but can I do that? What year were you born?

Elsie: Yeah. I'm 91.

Jack: You were born in 1922 then?

Elsie: 1922.

Jack: And I believe that's the year that WHAS started. You don't have any memories from back then of listening do you?

Elsie: No, [crosstalk 00:00:53]. The first time I ever heard about a radio, I guess I was about... Well, no, not that I first hear about it, but the first 1:00experience I had with it was when my brother made a crystal set.

Jack: Tell me about that, will you? You grew up about the Fern Creek area, is that right?

Elsie: Right.

Jack: Tell me about your family, first of all. Was your family a farm family?

Elsie: Yes, my dad was, we called it a truck farmer. He raised strawberries, corn, grapes, all things like that that people used.

Jack: Sell to neighbors, or did you ever go to shops or stores?

Elsie: Right. Of course, then you didn't have freezers. And everything that you grew, you had to use it up right away. Didn't even have a refrigerator, except for an ice box with a chunk of ice in it. It was a lot of fun because we didn't know any better.

Jack: Were you actually out on a farm or were within Fern Creek?

Elsie: Yes.

Jack: You were out on a farm?

Elsie: We were on a farm.

Jack: And you had how many brothers?

Elsie: Well, it was about 30 acres.

Jack: You had brothers and sisters?

Elsie: I had four brothers.


Jack: Were you the baby?

Elsie: My mother and dad had four boys all before I came along.

Jack: So, you were the baby, huh?

Elsie: I was the baby, and my mother thought I was sick after having four boys. People would go by the house and she'd have clothes hanging on the line. And they'd say, "Well, I'm sure glad to see something out there besides boys pants."

Jack: You helped straighten them out a little bit. What was Fern Creek like back then? It's a lot different than it is today in 2013.

Elsie: Oh, yes. The houses were very far between.

Jack: Really? Where was the center? Was there a downtown Fern Creek? Was there a place, a store or something where everybody kind of [crosstalk]?

Elsie: Yes, yes, they had like a-

Jack: Post office and things.

Elsie: They had a Union store and they had a hardware store and a feed store.

Jack: Did you go into Louisville very often? Did you go to Louisville?

Elsie: My dad did.

George: Nicholson Hotel was there.

Elsie: Nicholson Hotel was there.

Jack: Oh, you had a hotel there? Of course, this was on Bardstown Road going out to Louisville.

Elsie: On Bardstown Road, went right through it. At that time they called it, I think, it was Bardstown Pike. And they had a street car that came out all the 3:00way to Fern Creek and went back to town. And the people really appreciated having that.

Jack: Did you ever ride that any? Did you?

Elsie: No, I didn't.

Jack: No reason to.

Elsie: When I was first born, and I remember as a little one riding to church in a horse-drawn wagon.

Jack: Really?

Elsie: Yeah.

Jack: Where did you go to church, where was that?

Elsie: I went to Oak Grove Church of Christ. My dad was a Methodist, my mother was a Presbyterian.

Jack: So you compromised.

Elsie: There weren't either one of those [crosstalk].

Jack: Oh, I see.

Elsie: And the Church of Christ was the closest at hand, and that's where his sister and the rest of the family went, so that's where we went.

Jack: Now your four brothers were pretty active in the community out there, weren't they?

Elsie: Yes, they-

Jack: They had quite an impact on that community.

Elsie: Yes, they were very active in Fern Creek.


Jack: And in Louisville and in education, and you had a brother who was a veterinarian.

Elsie: Hudson was the veterinarian, and Everett, James E, was the assistant deputy superintendent with Mr. Van Hoose. Harry, my youngest brother, had a furniture store.

Jack: And then Kenneth was a-

Elsie: And Kenneth was very active in the schools too. They called him-

Jack: I think there a building at Seneca High School named after him.

Elsie: Yes, the auditorium.

George: He was the first principal at Seneca High School.

Jack: Oh, is that right? Well, how about that?

Elsie: They called him the county's gadget man. He worked on all the televisions and any machines that needed to be worked on, he did it.

Jack: How about that?

Elsie: Although, he started out, he majored in English and started teaching at Camp Taylor. And then he went to Greathouse and to Shryock.

Jack: Made the rounds, huh?


Elsie: Yeah. And my oldest brother taught at Primrose, which was a one-room school, all eight classes.

Jack: In Fern Creek, in the Fern Creek area?

Elsie: At Primrose, it was kind of towards Floyds Fork.

Jack: Oh, I didn't know that.

Elsie: It was several miles from Fern Creek.

Jack: I had never heard of that before. Where did you go to school? Where did you go to school?

Elsie: I went to Lovvorn.

Jack: That was an elementary there in Fern Creek?

Elsie: Yes, it was. Actually, Lovvorn was the first junior high school in the county.

Jack: Is that still out there?

Elsie: No.

Jack: No?

Elsie: No, they tore it down. But all my brothers went there.

George: Lovvorn, wasn't it one through eight?

Elsie: It was. Before I started, when Hudson and Everett were going, or before, two more years were added on to it.

Jack: Did you go to Fern Creek High School?

Elsie: Yes, I did. Graduated from there.

Jack: You're a Creeker, then, huh?

Elsie: Yes. My brother Kenneth rode a bicycle from where we lived to Fern Creek.


Jack: How far was that?

Elsie: Oh, gosh, I don't know, 10 miles? You think it'd be 10 miles? Anyway, it was a pretty good [crosstalk].

Jack: He rode the bike, whatever.

Elsie: Yes.

Jack: No matter what the weather. You were going to tell me about Kenneth making a radio set. He was mister gadget man.

Elsie: Yes. In one of his classes they made a crystal set. They had the cat whisker, you know what that is?

Jack: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elsie: It's that little thing, and then it has a wire. This wire, you work it around till you get the sound and the voices. And then it works really nice.

Jack: And this was in the late '20s, middle-to-late '20s, middle-to-late '20s.

Elsie: Yes. My mother was I'll, had been for a year or two. She laid there on the bed listening to the music, and she loved the Hawaiian music. She thought it was so pretty.

Jack: How about that? How about that? Did you listen to the radio some? Of course, it was different.

Elsie: Yes, I listened to it.

Jack: You couldn't walk in every room and turn one on. Now, put it in your car [crosstalk].

Elsie: No. She let me listen to one of the ears.

Jack: So she'd listen to one and you'd listen to one.


Elsie: Well, I didn't listen to it too much because I was doing other things.

Jack: What did you have to do around the farm? Did you do anything on the farm, or did you keep the house going?

Elsie: Well, yeah, I worked around in the house. She had gotten to where she just suffered too much. And I did all I could do in the house, helped with the cooking, 10 years old, sweeping the floor, trying to. And I think about now and wondering what it looked like.

Jack: I bet it was great.

George: A lot better than it would have if you hadn't.

Elsie: I guess so.

Jack: That's right. With four boys around there, are you kidding? That's wild. Do you remember listening? When do you first remember listening to... You mentioned WAVE might have been on before WHAS.

Elsie: WAVE, that's the one that she could get with the-

Jack: On the crystal set.

Elsie: ... crystal set. I don't know if WHAS was in operation at that time.

Jack: It started in 1921, I believe, '21 or '22, so about the year you were born it was on the air.


Elsie: And it was 1937 before we even had electricity.

Jack: Is that right?

Elsie: That's right.

Jack: So that'd be important if you're going to have a radio to have some electricity. They weren't battery operated.

Elsie: Exactly. My oldest brother came out one night. He said, "Mom, I'm going to get married tonight." She said, "Oh, you are?" And she thought he was joking. So the next morning we all get up, and somebody said, "Where is Everette?" And she said, "I just don't know. I wonder where he is." I said, "Mom, don't you remember? He said he was going to get married when he left." And she started crying.

Jack: Oh, my goodness. How old were you when that happened?


Elsie: I was about nine or 10.

Jack: Interesting. Now, you met your husband, Leo.

Elsie: Leo.

Jack: Was he from Fern Creek also?

Elsie: Yeah, he grew up in Fern Creek.

Jack: Was a farming guy?

Elsie: No, not really. His dad worked for Sealtest.

Jack: The dairy?

Elsie: Yes, and so they wanted to move. They lived down in Portland, and they wanted to-

Jack: How did you meet if he was in Portland and you were out in Fern Creek?

Elsie: Well, they moved.

Jack: Oh, I see.

Elsie: They moved out to Fern Creek. We had to wait for the bus. They'd always have two rounds to go. So we all got kind of chummy and started having fun while we was waiting on the bus.

Jack: Want to talk about that any? No, nevermind.


Elsie: It was a bunch of us.

Jack: I know it was.

Elsie: We'd go over to the Union store, and they'd have the best doughnuts you ever ate, and we'd get a Coke. The kids that rode buses just went in droves over to the store to Fern Creek.

Jack: Where was this, was this on Bardstown Road?

Elsie: Right there by where the fire department is now and the community center.

Jack: Now, did I ask what your maiden name was, did I?

Elsie: Farmer.

Jack: Farmer, it was Farmer. So you were a Farmer, you were born a Farmer, weren't you?

Elsie: Right.

Jack: And you met Leo Deutsch.

Elsie: Met him at school.

Jack: How long from the time you all met before you got married?

Elsie: It was about three years. We married young, went back to the farm. They wanted him to go to UK, but he didn't want to go to school any longer.

Jack: Now you say the farm, where was farm now? Was this the farm that you all had for such a long time?

Elsie: Well, now, when they moved out to Fern Creek from downtown they raised chickens.

Jack: So they were in Fern Creek. They were out on a farm.

Elsie: Yes, and they had a little bit of land.

George: And Papa had a couple of cows there on that little spot.


Elsie: I didn't know if they gave it to him, Mr. Von Allmen gave it to him before they move to-

Jack: Who is Mr. Von Allmen, and how did he get a cow? Tell me that story.

Elsie: Well, he had a wonderful farm up at... What was the name of that? I can't think of it.

George: It's on 22. It's basically, more or less, at the intersection of Gene Snyder and I-71 now, that was the backside of the farm.

Elsie: It was Worthington.

Jack: Now, was this the Von Allmen Dairy?

Elsie: Yes.

Jack: That was the dairy. Did it become Sealtest or something?

Elsie: That's right. Yes.

Jack: So he worked-

Elsie: So his-

Jack: His dad worked for them.

Elsie: We all called him Pappy, and he worked for him.

Jack: And then Leo did.

Elsie: And so, they moved from the farm in Fern Creek. Leo's family moved down to Mount Washington Road.


Jack: So they bought the farm out there on Mount Washington Road.

Elsie: Yes.

Jack: That's where it started.

Elsie: And that is when he started working on getting some cows together. Mr. Von Allmen gave him a little black heifer calf, whose name was Eva. Every chance they got they would buy another heifer.

Jack: He was still a boy at this time or a young man? You weren't married yet.

Elsie: He was about a sophomore in high school.

Jack: You weren't married at this time.

Elsie: No.

George: I'm wanting to say wasn't he like 14 when they moved over there?

Elsie: Probably, yeah, sophomore.

Sandy: He was.

Jack: So he's living out on that farm by this time.

Elsie: Yes.

Jack: And they're raising some cows. Were they dairy cows?

Elsie: Pigs.

Jack: Dairy cows, I guess.

Elsie: Yes.

Jack: And pigs?

Elsie: Yeah. And when we got married we they were milking 13 of these cows by hand. Of course, I learned how to milk the cows.


Jack: Did you?

Elsie: Everybody likes my handshake, and I say, "That's because I milked cows for a long, long time."

Jack: How old were you when you got married? You said you were married young. How old were you?

Elsie: I was 19, Leo was 17 and a half.

Jack: So this is like in the late '30s, early '40s, somewhere along.

Elsie: '41.

Jack: When did you get married? Got married in '41.

Elsie: We married in '41.

Jack: You moved out to the farm then? Did you move out?

Elsie: Yeah, we lived there with them. Well, my mother died when I was just going on 12. My dad then was by himself. And then one of my brothers moved in with him. They had a little boy. He and his wife and little boy moved in there.

After milking cows we ended up with about 20, I guess, 18 cows, maybe that we were milking by hand. And then a friend of ours, Leo got in with him, and they 14:00cut wood off of our farm and build a dairy barn. And that was a nice, big job.

Jack: How big was the farm? How many acres here?

Elsie: There was 172 when they originally bought it. And then the light utilities went through. And they called it... Remember how many acres that was?

George: Well, it started out it was 181, and Nanna and Pappy donated five acres.

Elsie: That's right.

Jack: For the [crosstalk]?

George: Five acres, and seven acres to the state for where the dam and spillway for McNeely Lake is.

Jack: Now, the farm backed up to McNeely Lake, didn't it?

George: Yeah. And then the power company took some. And the Parks Department took some, and so-


Elsie: We ended up with about 142 acres, didn't we?

George: Right.

Jack: How many cows do you eventually-

Elsie: Well, eventually, after having built the dairy barn, and then we got milking machines in there, it accommodated 22 cows, 11 on either side. We were proud of that barn.

Jack: I bet.

Elsie: It had water fountains in it.

Jack: And the guys that built it. They built it.

Elsie: It was good.

Jack: Have to milk twice a day?

Elsie: We built a silo and we had a silo right there. Yes, you milked twice a day. But, now, these milkers that we used, you had to carry to empty. We'd carry them and empty them out into the can at the end of the barn.

Jack: Later on they all went into a central system, I guess, at some point.

Elsie: They went in, yes. First we started out with cans of milk in the cooler, 16:00set the can down in the water. Then that was outlawed. Then they had ice encased in the sides of the cooler and on the bottom. As time went on they expected more out of you.

Jack: So they filled the cans, and then somebody would come around and pick them up every day?

Elsie: Actually, when it was in cans, Pappy hauled the milk to the market-

Jack: Really?

Elsie: ... as he went to work.

Jack: How about that?

Elsie: And there was a time when we were milking in the old barn, the 13 cows, that was not grade A milk. That was because we didn't have all the sanitary conditions that you see when you go into a grade A dairy. It went to a creamery.

Jack: So you were out there milking too. You were milking some [crosstalk].

Elsie: Oh, yeah.

Jack: Any techniques you want to share with us? Any secret to being a good milker, any good secrets?

Elsie: Get your thumb in there and just go to town.

Jack: That's good. Did you depend on the radio for any farming information or 17:00anything at that time? Did people listen [crosstalk]?

Elsie: Well, I depended on the radio. Yeah, we listened to it a lot for the weather and the music, the cows loved the music.

Jack: Oh, so you played it in the barn, then?

Elsie: Yes. And you had this constant noise going on. That way you don't surprise a cow. That was just my thinking.

Jack: Well, that makes sense.

Elsie: If they don't hear something and you go in between a couple of cows, you might go back sooner than you expected.

Jack: So some disk jockey had no idea how important he was to-

Elsie: That's right.

Jack: ... keeping you safe. How about that? How about that?

Elsie: Somebody like Jim Walton. They all [crosstalk].

Jack: Do you remember who you listened to back then? Of course, you listened, not just in the barn, you listened at the house and everything too.

Elsie: Yeah.

Jack: Do you remember who you listened to? You mentioned Jim Walton.

Elsie: Especially Jack Fox.

Jack: That was a little bit later. You listened to Jim Walton. You remember who else you listened to?

Elsie: Jim Walton.

Jack: Was this in the morning or at night?

Elsie: Judy Marshall was-


Jack: She was a singer.

Elsie: After Walton, I think. Randy Atcher, and who was the old guy with him?

Jack: Tom Brooks.

Elsie: Tom Brooks.

Jack: Cactus, Cactus.

Elsie: Cactus. And it was called The Breakfast Club.

Jack: So you listened to that?

Elsie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jack: What time did you start milking in the morning?

Sandy: You had to get it done before the boys went to school.

George: Oh, no, they had to have it done before Pappy went to go to work.

Elsie: Yeah, so it was pretty early.

Jack: That's 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning, something like that?

Elsie: We had to get it milked and get it cooled.

Jack: When you went out did you turn the radio on then, or was it on all the time for the cows?

Elsie: I turned it on right away.

Jack: You mentioned the weather, did they do farm reports or anything like that then? Was that important to you all?

Elsie: Yes. I think the weather was always something they could fill in with when there was nothing else to talk about.

Jack: Did they give the farm reports, how much beef was selling for and the 19:00grain reports [crosstalk]?

Sandy: When did that start? When did Barney Arnold start?

Elsie: Oh, I don't remember.

Jack: Was Barney the first farm director? Did they have anybody before Barney? I was trying to think.

Elsie: I don't think so.

Jack: So Barney was the first one. We were trying to remember the other day if there was anybody.

Elsie: And then there was that other one on, he's still-

Jack: Jack Crowner was [inaudible]. Jack Crowner, he was on WAVE, wasn't he?

Elsie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jack: Now did you listen to WAVE and HAS, or did you listen back and forth or [crosstalk]?

Elsie: Back and forth, but most of the time it was HAS.

Jack: Very good. Because WAVE, actually, they had a farm itself, didn't they? Had a farm that they-

Elsie: Oh, yes, they did.

Sandy: Still do.

Jack: Is that right?

Elsie: Uh-huh (affirmative). And it wasn't too far from Mr. Von Allmen's farm.

Jack: So they did experiments out there, or just raised things and talked about it. Interesting. Well, I'm glad to know that the radio could keep you company out there. Did you listen in the house at night or anything? Did you listen for entertainment?

Elsie: Oh, we did. We listened to... I don't remember the name of that show, but it was like a soap, like the soap operas that you have on television.

Jack: Oh, really?

Elsie: I can't think of the name of it. It was some woman, and she had the whole family. It just went on and on, and you'd listen to it every night.


Jack: So you got caught up in it, huh?

Elsie: It was great.

Jack: You got caught up in all the characters and everything.

Elsie: You do, just like I do with these books I listen to now.

Jack: Oh, yeah? She listens to the recorded books you get from the state library.

Elsie: Uh-huh (affirmative). I said I'm listening to Jill now.

Jack: That's my daughter, Jill.

Elsie: I know.

Jack: Her eyesight is fading a little bit, so that's just good to know you can fill in the gap there, huh?

Elsie: Right.

Jack: That's good.

Elsie: I can't read at all, except unless the letters are big. I can read if they're big.

Jack: Well, you raised a couple of boys out on that farm too, didn't?

Elsie: I did.

Jack: Were both of them born? You lived out there when both the boys were born.

Elsie: Yes. George and Bill.

Jack: Bill is your oldest.

Elsie: And Bill was the first grandchild, and I said, no, he was not spoiled. And then when George came along, no, he wasn't spoiled either.


Jack: All the grandparents out there, of course, everything.

Elsie: That's right.

Jack: In fact, I know that farm has been developed now, but wasn't there a little log cabin or something right there where Bill was born, wasn't it?

Elsie: Yes. Well, Leo and I slept back there until George was born.

Jack: How about that?

Elsie: And the cabin wasn't big enough for three beds.

Jack: Was Bill actually born there? Was he born in a hospital?

Elsie: He was born in Saint Anthony.

Jack: So both of the boys were.

Elsie: Both of them were born in Saint Anthony. My daughter-in-law, Bill's wife, said that she wanted recipes from the family, and so that's what got me started writing-

Jack: We were talking earlier.

Elsie: ... all this stuff down.

Jack: That's good.

Elsie: I've got one of them ready. And if you guys want to see it before they take it to [inaudible] look at it.

Jack: Now, what was like here? You're on a farm, you're helping to milk, you're raising two boys now. And you've also got to cook and do all that stuff. What was that all like? Kept you pretty busy, didn't it?


Elsie: Yes. We were busy. At first, before we married, Nanna went out and did... She milked, she helped with the milking.

Jack: Nanna is your mother-in-law?

Elsie: Yes. And helped feed the pigs.

Jack: What were your in-laws names, by the way?

Elsie: Pappy's name was Berthold.

Jack: Berthold?

Elsie: Berthold William. And her name was Stella. And, of course, she called herself Granny to Bill. And it ended up being Nanna.

Jack: Nanna.

Elsie: And then when we got married I didn't know what to call Pappy because I still had a dad. So, Pappy just fit. Everybody called him Pappy. Did it stop?


Jack: No, no, we're doing good. I'm just checking to make sure we're doing all right here. We're just rolling along.

Elsie: And Elaine said that she wanted to hear things that went on at the farm on Walnut Hill. She said, "I don't care if it's good, bad, indifferent, whatever it is, I want to hear it."

Jack: So that was the name of the farm, Walnut Hill?

Elsie: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yes.

Jack: Right off Mount Washington Road, or on Mount Washington Road.

Elsie: Yeah, that's right.

Jack: Your house was right across the road.

Elsie: There was a hen that is in the hall of fame at University of Kentucky because she was the layingest chicken.

Jack: Is that?

Elsie: Right. Doctor Ireland.

Jack: From your farm?

Elsie: No, it wasn't our chicken. But Doctor Ireland had this flock of chickens.

Sandy: That's the people that owned it before Nanna and Pappy bought it.

Jack: Oh, I see.

Elsie: Of course, he was never there, and the people that worked there said they were the ones that raised the chickens. You know how that goes, and they didn't get the credit.


Jack: Did you enjoy farm life? Was it a good life for you?

Elsie: Yes, I loved going down to the barn and smell that feed as those cows were eating that silage, and put this grain on there and get it all mixed up. It smelled so good, and the radio was playing.

Jack: Good atmosphere.

Elsie: I really got a lot out of it. I enjoyed it.

Jack: Now Leo also became kind of an innovator too, wasn't he, as far farming, agricultural methods and things like that?

Elsie: Oh, yes. I'll let George tell you about that.

Jack: Well, let's talk about George. George, you were born. You grew up on that farm out there, didn't you?

George: Right.

Jack: What are your earliest memories of the farm there on Walnut Hill or Mount Washington Road?

Elsie: Probably plowing when you were nine years old.

George: Well, just the daily chores, milking the cows.

Jack: You started early. As early as you can remember, you remember a few things like that?

George: Well, I was just like our kids, Jack, when we went to the barn with Mom and Dad. I, evidently, used to be hard to put to sleep for naps and stuff. Papa 25:00would take me out on the tractor and ride me, and I'd go to sleep when the-

Jack: How about that? That's a lullaby, huh?

George: Yeah.

Jack: Do you have to start a John Deere now to go to sleep?

George: Well, John Deere was a dirty word back then.

Jack: Oh, is that right? Tell me what was [inaudible]?

George: Allis-Chalmers.

Jack: Oh, your dad was a dealer, wasn't he?

Elsie: Yes, he was.

George: Not at that time, but eventually he was.

Jack: You went orange instead of green and yellow.

George: It was just like what you did.

Elsie: He got out there. The boys got out there and worked all the time.

George: You talked about Barney Arnold, and, of course, kids being what they were, my brother and I called him Arnie Barnyard, was [crosstalk].


Jack: Arnie Barnyard. I wonder if he ever knew that.

George: I doubt it very seriously.

Jack: He would have smiled at it, though, I'm sure. Bill is how much older than you?

George: Four and a half years older than me.

Jack: Was that a help to you or a hindrance to you on the farm with an older brother?

George: Well, Bill was a reader. And we would be down in the barn milking the cows, and he couldn't milk the cows without a book in his pocket.

Jack: That's kind of hard to do.

George: And if there was two minutes idle time some place, well Bill had a book out. And that was kind of frustrating because he'd supposed to be doing something, and then he'd be reading.

Jack: Now, Bill didn't stay around the farm. Bill became a minister and things like that, didn't he?

Elsie: Yes.

George: Interesting enough, he couldn't wait to get away from the farm. And then after he became a minister his first church was a little place out in Gibson, 27:00Iowa. In fact, it was so small that he had service at the one church. And while they had Sunday school at White Oak, and then he'd jump in the car and run those about 10 or 12 miles down the road to the other one and do it all over again.

Elsie: It was a mother church and then a satellite.

Jack: But he could understand a farm community, couldn't he?

Elsie: Oh, yeah.

George: And when he got out there, well, he couldn't wait to get... We started hearing about, well, he was helping this guy or that guy plow or plant corn or doing this. It turned out to be a real good thing for him because he understood, he could relate to those people. And instead of waiting for them to cast a shadow on the church door, he would go out and-

Elsie: And they appreciate his knowing how.


Jack: I'm sure that's true.

George: ... do things.

Jack: So you were helping him prepare him for his ministry.

George: But, any rate, that-

Jack: Well now, George any books you were reading probably had to do with agriculture because it was in your blood, wasn't it? You enjoyed it, didn't you? Did you ever think about wanting to get away from the farm, or you always wanted to be there on it?

George: Always wanted to at the farm. Jack, I read real slow, and so reading was frustrating to me. I hated school. I hated school from the very first day of first grade until I graduated from high school.

Jack: [crosstalk ].

George: But then I ended up going to UK where Sandy and I met.

Jack: You went to UK and majored in agriculture and very bright-minded agriculture.

George: Did well there, but by that point in time I had a purpose to work through. School was like a dose of medicine to me. I wanted to be out on the farm.

Elsie: His first grade, people, friends would say, "How does George like school?" I said, "Oh, he's doing good. He likes it real well." Well, after 29:00hearing that several times he called me to the side, he said, "Mom, I do not like school."

Jack: Six years old.

Elsie: And then when he gets to UK, he comes home talking about Sandy this and Sandy that. We took some grits some place [inaudible] farm, was it called [inaudible]?

George: It was [inaudible].

Elsie: And I said, "Who is Sandy?" "Well, it's a girl that's working there at the dairy center."

Jack: Well, let's bring Sandy into this. This is-

Elsie: So I found out that she could milk cows and wash dishes, both.

Jack: Sandy, your first name is Alexandra.

Sandy: Yes.

Jack: Alexandra, but you're Sandy to everybody.

Sandy: Yes.

Jack: So you came from a background where you were washing clothes and milking 30:00cows, right?

Sandy: No.

Jack: No, no, no, you came from where?

Sandy: Actually, I came from Washington, DC, and I came from a newspaper, radio, TV family.

Jack: Tell me about that family a little bit.

Sandy: Well, it was the Noise family, my dad's mother's family. My grandfather, my dad's father was actually a reporter from London, England and the London Times. And he had an office in my dad's mom's family newspaper. And that's where his office was and how they met.

Jack: Which newspaper? This is in Washington, DC. What newspaper?

Sandy: Washington Star.

Jack: Washington Star.

Sandy: And WMAL TV.

Jack: Really?

Sandy: And also the radio station was WMAL.

Jack: The family owned that?

Sandy: Yeah. And he knew the Binghams and was friends with the Binghams.

Jack: How about that?

Sandy: So that was interesting when I came down here because he says, "Now, don't forget, that's where the Binghams are from, and you need to listen to WHAS and stuff."

Jack: How about that? And did you get to know the Bingham family some here?

Sandy: Yes.

Jack: Did you have any contact with the Bingham family?

Sandy: Yeah. Eadie and I actually both went to the same high school because-

Jack: In the DC area there?

Sandy: In the DC area because her family, the Stenhouse family, was from DC.


Jack: Is that where Barry met her when he came up here to work, or did he know her before? Do you know?

Sandy: I'm not sure.

Jack: Because Barry Junior was in that area.

Sandy: Eadie is Barry's second wife, and I'm not sure. I never thought to ask Eadie that.

Jack: How about that? So, you come down to Kentucky to be in the newspaper business and the radio and television business. No?

Sandy: I had dreams of coming down here and being a veterinarian.

Jack: Really? So you came to vet school. You were going to [crosstalk].

Sandy: Well, I was going to be in pre-vet school at UK.

Jack: Why UK?

Sandy: I loved horses, and that was horse country. But then I decided I didn't want to study that much. So I changed and just got an animal science major, and then met George.

Jack: How did you guys meet?

Sandy: At our Block and Bridle, which is our animal science club and doing 32:00activities there.

Jack: How about that? How long from the time you met did he take you to the farm over on Walnut Hill from that time?

George: Long time.

Sandy: It was three years.

Jack: Oh, really?

Sandy: It was our senior year before.

Jack: Oh, really?

Sandy: Yeah. We were both dating other people.

Jack: Let's see, this would have been in the early '70s. When did you go? You graduated from high school in 1970.

George: We first met in the fall of 1970.

Jack: You had gone to UK, and you were down at UK. So you graduated from Southern High School in 1970, George?

George: Yes, that's correct.

Jack: And what high school did you go to in-

Sandy: Holton-Arms.

Jack: Holton-Arms. Very good. What was it like to come to Kentucky from that Washington, DC area?

Sandy: It was good. I enjoyed it very much. I was, I don't know if you want to call it the oddball or the black sheep because I liked the farming background and didn't like the city part. By the time I was in elementary school mom and dad had moved out into the rural community around DC.

Jack: What was your dad doing? He was-

Sandy: He was the business manager of the newspaper.


Jack: Of the Washington Star. But you were into horses and things like that. You had horses.

Sandy: His best friend had-

Jack: I saw a great picture of you.

Sandy: ... blank Angus cattle.

Jack: How hold were you in that picture I saw?

Sandy: 17.

Jack: 17 and a horse and a couple of dogs around. You were right at home.

Sandy: His best friend was the farm manager for the farm that was right behind us.

Jack: Is this in Maryland?

Sandy: In Maryland. And he kind of raised me.

Jack: Did you know about UK?

Sandy: Actually, he was married to Eadie's sister, and so that's how I got to know-

Jack: Eadie Bingham. Did you know about Kentucky, or did you just want to come to Kentucky because the horses were here? Were you considering other schools?

Sandy: I did. Well, my parents considered other schools. They had me apply to two other schools, and I picked Kentucky.


Jack: Parents are kind of like that sometimes. So you're on the farm now. You got married, you're on the farm. What's it like to get on the farm out here on Walnut Hill? What were you jumping in and doing?

Sandy: Milking cows.

Jack: Milking.

Sandy: As soon as we got married we expanded the dairy herd.

Jack: Had you milked before? Had you milked?

Sandy: Yes, I worked for the dairy center at UK.

Jack: Oh, sure, UK.

Sandy: And everybody always told us that George got me to learn how to milk cows up there so I could kill their cows and not his cows.

George: Funny thing about that, Jack, is that the students that worked at the dairy center at UK, basically, it was a year-round job. But some of us didn't stay year-round because we needed to go home to the farm and stuff.

Elsie: He came home every week and worked.

George: When I left the of my junior year to come home, I stopped by Sandy's apartment and told her that the herdsman was really trying to find summer help 35:00out at the dairy center and coaxed her to go out to the dairy center and get a job. And so when I came back in the fall Sandy was there at the dairy center, and she had been milking cows and breeding calves and all summer long.

Jack: Getting her ready for that farm life.

George: That's right. Later on we took a lot of razzing over that.

Jack: I'm sure that's true. So we know that Elsie liked to walk in the barn early in the morning and George loved it. How about you? Do you enjoy the atmosphere around the barn, around the farm, Sandy?

Sandy: Oh, yeah, I really did.

Elsie: I loved working with the calves too. It was fun.

Jack: Well, let's go back to Arnie Barnyard for a minute here. George, you guys, as a boy I'm sure you said that jokingly. Did you listen to the radio station very much at that time or growing up, or just because it was on in the barn, or 36:00did you?

George: Well, it was on in the barn, but in the younger years Barney would talk about things. He would talk about things that were going on in agriculture and stuff. It would perk my interest-

Jack: Really?

George: ... to listen to the things that he had to say and what was coming up and stuff like that. And then, of course, he did the market report every morning of the previous day's market. And then, again-

Jack: Was that important to you?

George: Well, sometimes it was because-

Elsie: It was.

George: ... if we were going to sell calves or hogs or corn or buy corn or something like that.

Jack: He gave you local information of the stockyards or something?

George: That's right. And we'd get the grain reports.

Jack: Grain reports.

George: Of course, back then it would take just for the beef report, it would 37:00take seemed like forever because there's so many different categories.

Jack: [crosstalk].

George: Right. But we'd tune-in, and sometimes what he said would make a difference, "Well, we need to get busy and send some cattle to market," or, "No, we don't need to do that. We need to wait," or whatever.

Jack: So it was a vital part of it, then.

George: Sure.

Jack: It isn't just routine and entertainment, it was vital information.

Elsie: Oh, yeah.

George: That's right.

Jack: Now, do you subscribe to Elsie's theory that the music helped the cows calm down, or would you get kicked by a cow even if the music was [crosstalk]?

Elsie: Oh, yes.

George: You'd get kicked anyway, but it's kind of like background music in a baby's room or something like that. It didn't really-

Elsie: A sudden noise or [crosstalk].

George: It didn't really matter a lot what was going on, but it was something else that was more or less constant.


Jack: So your years on the farm were really growing up in the middle to late '60s on up through your adulthood, then. Is that right?

Elsie: Yeah, he was born I '52. He was about...

Jack: From 1959, '60 on you were pretty involved in the farm.

Elsie: When you were about three, four years old you were spending as much time in the barn as the rest of us were.

Jack: You enjoyed it.

George: I guess the only bad time I can remember on the farm when I was a little kid, Jack, was Mom's one brother, Uncle Hudson, was a veterinarian, and I was probably about four. It was a traumatic experience or I wouldn't remember it, obviously. But they had a sick cow. I don't have a clue what was wrong with it, except that Uncle Hudson had to operate on that cow. And while they were 39:00operating on the cow a thunder storm came up and the electric went off.

Elsie: Bad storm.

George: And it was warm weather and they had the windows out of the barn for ventilation. And it was blowing rain plum through the barn and lightening and thundering. And I was screaming bloody murder because I was scared to death. But that's the only bad experience I can remember of growing up on the farm.

Elsie: We were down there holding the cow.

George: At, any rate, the...

Jack: Well, let's talk about the radio part for a minute here. That changed a little bit too from the time you were a boy to the time that you finally left the farm. When did you sell the farm? Or you began to develop it, what year was that? It was about...

Sandy: '97.

George: '97.

Jack: '97. But even what was delivered on the radio was different from that time from when you started. Talk about that transition a little bit.

Elsie: Things changed. Things changed a lot.

George: Well, in the beginning, for me, it really wasn't beginning, but I can 40:00remember when Barney would be off, and I'm having a senior moment here, now.

Jack: Fred Wiche?

George: Fred Wiche was Barney's relief guy. And so early on, well, maybe once every week or once every two weeks, well, we would have to listen to Fred instead of Barney.

Jack: Now this is when you're a kid, or you're an adult back on the farm now?

Sandy: An adult.

George: Well-

Elsie: He was young.

Jack: Even as a kid.

George: Early on.

Jack: Because Fred came there in the '60s sometime.

George: As a teenager and stuff and as a young adult.

Jack: How did that affect you?

George: Well, Fred would try to give the same stuff that Barney did, but it just-


Elsie: He just didn't have the voice.

George: It just came in a different way. All of us are different. And so it was just you knew what you wanted to hear from Barney, and you knew when he was going to get to it and stuff. But you had to listen a lot closer to Fred in the beginning. Fred, he was a great guy, but he never filled Barney's shoes, as far as I'm concerned.

Jack: Those are big shoes to fill. Those are big shoes to fill.

Elsie: Difference in the delivering and the voice, tone of his voice.

Jack: Well, and the type of information changed too, didn't?

Elsie: Right.

Jack: Society changed. Your farm became more and more communities around. It became more urban out in that area, didn't it?

Elsie: Yes.

Jack: The listening audience changed somehow, but the farm audience began to dwindle a little bit, I guess, didn't it?

George: I'm sure, yes. By that time though, Jack, HAS was the blow torch.

Jack: 50,000 watts. It went all over.


George: And it went all over.

Jack: That's true.

George: And a lot of places even the local stations were real small, and some people out in the country didn't have access to the market reports until-

Jack: Sure, and before computers.

George: ... days later, unless they got it off of WHAS.

Jack: The signal getting out across the stage.

George: After Barney left and more and more, of course, Fred was an avid gardener. And more and more, as you appeal to your audience you cater to your audience, and so more and more Fred catered his shows to the homeowner or the gardener. He still gave the market reports, but the extra information moved towards the backyard gardener, really, which, he was great at that.


Jack: All the information is available now on a smartphone or whatever just like that. So that, in deed, has changed. But your listening habits changed a little bit too. You began to depend on the radio, not just for information, but even for entertainment at some point too, didn't it?

George: Maw Perkins, that was the name of that-

Jack: Maw Perkins, that was it. I knew [crosstalk].

Elsie: I used to listen to it. I knew it'd finally come. It was a good show.

Jack: But you got to where you could listen to the radio in the house, in the car. I'm sure that changed your listening habits a little bit too and what you listened to. You'd listen to guys like Wayne Perky in the morning and not just the farm stuff. You caught up, I guess, every now in the conversations he was having and the sports reports and things like that.

Sandy: The radio station changed its focus too because it used to be that we actually had somebody playing music on it. And then it turned to totally talk radio.

Elsie: I was just going to say, we had Judy Marshall, and there was another girl 44:00that sang, I don't remember.

Jack: Joanne Hale, maybe?

Elsie: Yeah.

Jack: Joanne Hale.

Elsie: Joanne Hale.

George: Was Phyllis Knight, was she ever on the radio, or was she just [crosstalk].

Elsie: She was on the radio.

Jack: She was on the radio, yeah.

George: Well, Jack, when I first met you in person, we had listened to you on the radio long enough that it felt like-

Elsie: We knew you.

George: ... we knew you when we met.

Jack: HAS was kind of like that, wasn't it?

Elsie: Yes.

Jack: That's an idea about the change in style, though, too. The radio even became more personal by that point, and you kind of took it with it.

Elsie: Not as formal. Everything was so formal.

Jack: And you kind of took it with you throughout the day. You took it with you. It wasn't just in the barn in the morning, but you took it with you throughout the day. Information became more applicable to your daily stuff, even traffic reports, trying to get to the market or something, I guess. Well now it's interesting because today your dairy farm is not there anymore, but you're farming out in Spenser County and you're raising the type of stuff that Fred 45:00would be talking about.

George: That's right. He would be proud of us.

Jack: So Fred was just ahead of his time, that's all.

Elsie: Yes.

Sandy: And now I read Janine Wiche's things.

Jack: That's Fred's daughter.

Sandy: Yes.

Jack: She's involved. And your kids grew up on the farm. Tell me about your kids, became very involved in everything too.

Sandy: Well, our oldest daughter, Nancy, actually went to school for three years in California studying dairy science with a minor in business. And she's not used that degree because she married a Marine, and ended up following him around the world.

Jack: She was very active in the farm community.

Sandy: But she was very active in the farm community before.

Jack: Showing cows and things like that.

Sandy: Because she was out of college for six years before they actually got 46:00married. She taught school during that time, and worked on the farm, and also helped us startup our vegetable sales and stuff.

Jack: I bet she can milk with the best of them too, I bet, couldn't she?

Sandy: Yes. Actually, we would leave her in the parlor to milk the cows starting when she was 11 years old.

Jack: Bright girl.

Sandy: And go out and be doing other work and stuff.

Jack: Your daughter Chrissy now is working with your farm markets.

Sandy: That's right. She sells, helps bake bread and stuff and sells at the farm markets with me.

Jack: So what do y'all do at the farm markets? That's become a whole niche thing for you. What are you doing out here?

Sandy: We raise fruits and vegetables and bake breads and make jams and pickles and things like that, and sell them at four different markets five times a week.

Jack: And we can't leave your son Franklin out of this. Franklin, he's a farm boy.

Sandy: He is. He comes home and farms after he does his job with Johnson Controls. And so he-

Jack: He raised some tobacco for a while, didn't he, for a cash crop.

Sandy: Yes.

George: He did.

Sandy: Now he helps with the pumpkins and sweet corn.

Jack: Good.

George: Franklin is a good sales person, Jack.

Elsie: He does really good.


George: I've heard him comment several times that there's nothing he would rather sell than a fresh peach because, of course, most people today, unless they raise peaches in their backyard or whatever, don't really know what a fresh-picked peach is because you go to grocery store and they've been picked for a while. They were picked just when they would turn colors, and there's no comparison, really, of that peachy and one that...

And that's one of the things that we try to do is provide fresher, ripened-on-the-tree fruits. You take one of our peaches and if you bite into it, well, juice is going everywhere. Where I started with this was Franklin said 48:00that there's nothing he would rather do when selling something is that he takes a knife and cuts open a peach and juice squirts everywhere, just to watch the look on the people's face that him showing them that.

Jack: I think through you Franklin just sold a bunch of peaches right here to our listeners. I want some of that stuff. Well over the years WHAS has been, really a part of your life, your farm community and even now.

Elsie: Oh, yes, it has.

Jack: You listen now. Well, how do you listen now? Do you listen some now? Mostly in the car.

George: In the car, mostly.

Elsie: Yes.

Jack: Traveling around.

Sandy: Exactly right.

Jack: You do a little traveling here and there.

Sandy: And it's interesting because we know with part of the state when we're traveling to different farm meetings and stuff, we know how far we can get in the state and still be able to get HAS on our car radio.

Elsie: All around.

George: Some places a lot further than others.


Jack: Well, in today's [inaudible] iHeart Radio now, you can get it on your computer or wherever-

Sandy: That's right.

Jack: Live streaming and everything. It's changed a lot, but it's still a vital part of everything. Good. Well, any other stories we've left out here about farm life on the Deutsch family and farm and HAS?

George: Well, WHAS TV is still mom's go-to station.

Elsie: Oh, I do.

Jack: All right.

George: Even though it's changed.

Elsie: Because I know them.

George: They changed.

Elsie: I'm familiar with them.

Jack: [crosstalk] ownership.

George: CBS and ABC, they swapped there and stuff, but when they swapped it didn't matter to Mom. That channel 11 WHAS-

Jack: The local people are still there.

George: ... TV was the go-to station on the television. Of course, growing up we had one television when I can remember. I was a little kid. We had one TV. It 50:00was in the kitchen. And, of course, it sat in a big old-

Jack: It was great, big console.

George: ... console thing and stuff.

Jack: Had the rabbit ears and all that stuff, antenna outside.

George: And so it's change so drastically because most homes now have got TV in every place and everything. But it was some place they had first the radio and then the TV. The family would gather around that. Of course, when I was a youngster we got two stations on the television. We got WHAS and WAVE, 3 and 11.

Elsie: And it wasn't covered the whole day.

Jack: Oh, no.

Elsie: It had those empty spots.

Jack: Had the test pattern. You remember the test pattern?

George: Yep.

Elsie: Yes.

George: And I remember when Bill was still in high school and he had a science 51:00project one year that involved some kind of electronics thing. And so he used the stuff he had from that and put a convertor on the television so we could get channel 32 at one point.

Jack: UHF.

George: Of course, if you left it on it messed up the signal and would mess the channel 3 and channel 11. My father liked to have died because he thought that it messed up the TV. "No, you just have to turn this switch off, Pop."

Jack: Technology.

George: That's right.

Jack: Have a little trouble with smartphones today.

George: That's right.

Jack: That's funny. Anything else you want to add to all this? We've had a good time talking. Anything?


Elsie: It has been fun.

Jack: Nothing else?

George: Well, it seems like we were in the barn forever, it seems like. What just popped in my mind is Metz Here. And he'd come on in the evening, Metz Here, because we would usually still be in the barn late in the evening when he would come on.

Jack: You mentioned the weather information while ago. Of course, the tornado just about this time of year, April 3rd, 1974. You're right in almost the middle of it out there where you were in your farm. Did you get any information from the radio? You listened afterwards, I'm sure, to see what was going on.

Sandy: George and I were both at UK at that time.

Jack: Oh, that's right, '74 [crosstalk].

Sandy: But we listened to WHAS so that we could find out what had happened back home because the phone lines were bad, and we couldn't get through to find out.

Elsie: It actually didn't touch our farm.

George: But I couldn't find that out. The telephone lines were all down, and so Sandy and I were there in Lexington. In fact, Jack, it was really funny. It was 53:00kind of eerie because we were finishing up the milking at the dairy center, and Sandy and I were going to have dinner at the beef herdman's home on the other side of the farm there at Cold Spring that evening.

And it looked like this terrible storm coming up, and it barely rained, but the rain drops were huge. They'd hit on the black top and it's be big around as a softball, just one drop. And that's all the rain that we had there at the dairy center, was just a few plop, plop, plops. If one hit you, you would get soaked.

And so we got finished up with the milking and cleaning up. We went over to Dale Moon's house, and we were sitting there eating supper. And the chandelier in the dining room, the lights started just getting dim and dim. It was, of course, an 54:00old regular old screw-type light bulb in there. For a long time it never went out. For a long time it just kept getting dimmer and dimmer and dimmer. And the first I've ever really sat there and watch a light go down to where the filament was just glowing a little orange glow in there.

And about that time the phone started ringing and Dale, being the beef herdman, he had guys working for him. And his guys that were students were all scared to death listening to the radio and stuff. And we didn't know anything about it. And, of course, by this time the electrical wasn't working. So Dale and I went outside and sat in his truck and listened to the radio. And the first thing that 55:00we heard when we turned the radio on was the Red Cross in Lexington asking for no more people to come give blood because they had a four-hour backlog of people waiting to give blood. And we thought, "My goodness, what's going on?" And so we had to listen a little while longer to find out. I don't know what station Dale had on in his truck, but they got a little piece of WHAS's-

Jack: The helicopter report?

George: Yeah.

Jack: Dick Gilbert in the helicopter.

George: Dick Gilbert and stuff. They were talking on the radio, they were talking all about how bad everything was in Jefferson County. So I waited till 56:00daylight and told Sandy-

Jack: But you said you didn't know about home then [crosstalk].

George: No. And I waited till daylight and told Sandy, "I'll be back when I get back." Told the boss at the dairy center, "I'll be back when I get back." So I went home, didn't have any problem, they didn't have any problem there. But things sure were a mess between there and on the way home between Lexington and Louisville.

Elsie: It was terrible.

George: The big signs twisted up like pretzels.

Jack: Amazing, wasn't it?

Elsie: Houses cut in half in Cherokee Park. Did you see that?

Jack: Yeah, sure did.

Elsie: Oh, my goodness. The furniture sitting there like it could just fall right out, walls off, big trees.

Jack: I had forgot about it, but I remember the signboard across on Interstate 65 across from Freedom Hall, which got hit. But that signboard, huge metal girders were just twisted like a pretzel. Interesting.

Elsie: The fairground was all messed up. I could see how you'd be worried because we're kind of in line with the fairground.

Jack: Sure.

George: Well, and the fairgrounds, that's what Dick Gilbert, when they were 57:00talking about when the tornado hit the Freedom Hall and messed the roof up at Freedom Hall. That's not far from home.

Jack: That had a big impact too on your farming community too right through there with all the shows that went on. Great. Very good. Well, thanks for taking time out of a spring Sunday afternoon when you could be out doing something.

Elsie: It's been fun.

Jack: Planting some strawberries or something, or cutting some fresh peaches open. No, the peaches won't be in for a little while will they?

Sandy: No. They're just starting to bloom.

George: Just starting to bloom.

Jack: Good. Well, thanks for sharing. I'm glad that HAS has been a little bit a part of your life, hasn't it?

Elsie: Oh, it has.

Jack: Good. Thanks.

Elsie: I loved your voice, and I still love your voice.

Jack: Well, I'm glad.

Elsie: I just am always talking about Jack's voice.

Jack: I'm glad we could meet in person and it wasn't just over the radio.

Elsie: And I wanted to see you so bad. The first time I saw you, I guess it was Crusade for Children. You worked on that.