Interview with Milton Metz, February 3, 2012

JF: Let's just give it a talk here. Talk to me a little bit.

MM: Yeah, well if you find out what happened at the beginning that was in 1922, a year after I was born, the station started.

JF: Okay, that's a good test. Put this over here. All right. Well this is Jack Fox. We're talking to Louisville broadcasting legend Milton Metz. We're at his lovely apartment and we're just going to visit a little bit about the history of WHAS and his involvement in it. Let's ask first a little bit Milton, about you. You're not from Louisville.

MM: No, I'm from Cleveland.

JF: Cleveland, Ohio.

MM: Yes, I grew up there, had a nice youth and went to Ohio State University and then I was in the army.

JF: From Ohio State University, what did you study at Ohio State?

MM: I was... Education, teaching. I had a radio job while [crosstalk]

JF: Oh you did.

MM: Yeah.

JF: Were you planning a career in radio or were you planning a career in teaching?

MM: No, I just fell in love like so many people including yourself, fell in love with radio early but teaching was in those days "you have something to fall back on" but I had no intention of doing that. I wanted to be a radio announcer.

JF: Really. You sound like... I heard an interview with George Clooney and his dad Nick and Nick wanted to be an actor and his dad kept saying, well, finish college and have something to fall back on. He said dad, I'm not going to fall back, so that was your approach.

MM: Yeah, to be compared with the Clooneys, they're a great family and nice people.

JF: What inspired that? What made you want to be in radio?

MM: Well I was an actor in high school and public speaking was... My high school, Glenville in Cleveland was very active in the dramatic arts. We would 2:00put on plays like classics like Our Town by Thornton Wilder, classical, good plays and one of our guys won a radio play writing contest for the American Automobile Association whose subject was safety on the road. And we were all taken to Washington and recorded a series of safety programs. I went up there as sound effects man, that was my first job.

JF: Is that right. A technical job?

MM: Yeah. I would call home do you hear that automobile screech, that's me operating it. And they gave me some parts and I fell in love with it. And then I got a job at the Ohio State University acting in plays and then got a job downtown with a commercial radio station and it continued. Of course in the army, they don't want to hear about that.

JF: So you went from Ohio State into the army?

MM: Yeah.

JF: Were you drafted or was this a time that you just joined and you...

MM: No, I was drafted.

JF: Did you see duty overseas?

MM: No, I was in the army for three years but I wasn't shipped overseas. The closest I got was guarding some German prisoners of war. It was not dangerous but it was three years out of my life and when I came back I needed a job and I answered an ad in broadcasting magazine. It's a professional...

JF: Sure I remember it.

MM: It was box number so I didn't know to whom I was applying and they, to my surprise... I sent them a big radio transcription in those days about 12 inches record, a nice big record.

JF: So you were prepared for it. You had to give them some kind of... An example of what you did.

MM: Well I read a newspaper column, a sports column and they thought I was a great sportscaster but it was just what was written in the newspaper. But the funny thing about it was they hired me sight unseen, that was their first mistake Jack. They gave me the job without seeing me and it was very strange 4:00because they never did it again that I knew of or before.

JF: Wow. You had no contact with Louisville before you knew nothing about Louisville.

MM: I didn't know where Louisville was.

JF: Is that right.

MM: Because I answered a box number.

JF: Sure. So you accept this job, how long did it take in conversation from the time they called you? Were you negotiating? Did you say the job is mine I'm there next Monday?

MM: Yeah, it was too soon. It was tough my mom because I left shortly after I got out of army. I regret that to this day that I didn't say give me a month off and I'll be back. But I was so grateful to get a job that I accepted and went right down there.

JF: What was the status of radio announcers that time? Were your parents proud of the fact that you were in radio? Did they say no, go get a teaching job? How 5:00did they feel about that?

MM: No, my father at that time was dead. Both of my parents were immigrants. My mother from England and my father from Russia and they just wanted me... They didn't know much about that kind of stuff and they just wanted to be a success. I was a teenager I went off to school and I got a job at school and my mother wished me well and my two sisters were great supporters of me. So I came here, I was a rookie and they treated me very well but it was a rickety old radio station. It was horrible.

JF: You went through several studios, where was this one?

MM: This was downtown Louisville. It was adjacent to the building on Liberty and Third where the newspaper was being published. We were adjacent to it. It was done over a warehouse and it was on the second floor, you went up, it was like a tenement.

JF: What year was this?

MM: '46

JF: '46, okay. So the station was only 20 plus years old at that time.

MM: That's right. It was 24 years old. And it was really radio before TV had made any contact. To give you an idea it was so primitive that the walls for acoustics used those waffle undercoats for rugs and they were draped along the walls to soften the sound. It was really primitive. It was early radio, would you believe we had a religion editor full time, we had a music director full time and I didn't learn until later that money wasn't a key issue for them not for me.

JF: That was the Bingnham... This is the Bingham family.

MM: Yeah, the Bingham family were benevolent owners and they...

JF: They owned the Courier-Journal.

MM: Owned The Courier and they made money from the Courier and at that time standard [inaudible] a printing adjunct.

JF: All the Sunday inserts and things like that.

MM: Yeah and the Police Gazette and things like that. It was very prominent. But they weren't seeking to make a lot of money or make money at all at the radio station.

JF: I thought I read something that their purpose to put it on was to enrich the community with the arts and information and things like that.

MM: I read an early application Jack and it says exactly that. The management at that time in the 20s when they started said, we don't want to do any commercial stuff.

JF: Is that right.

MM: That's right. Not in that language but weren't going to do any commercial advertising. And much of that philosophy carried over.

JF: It was still there when you came.

MM: Yeah at that time.

JF: Now I remember reading or hearing a lot, in fact, when I was there at the 8:00station I think his picture was still on the wall, a fellow named Creedo Harris. What kind of influence did he have at that time? Was he the person who hired you?

MM: No but he was a manager. He was on his way out. He was getting ready to retire. I think he a newspaper friend of the Binghams and he was not a real broadcaster but was an executive. I don't think he was there much when I was there. Shortly after that Vic Sholis was appointed.

JF: Oh yes, I remember that name. So it had begun evolve a little bit by the time you had gotten there although I remember reading in one archive I think Dorothy Kirchabel, was that her name? She was a secretary to one of the Binghams or Mr. Harris, and said they referred to it, the radio station as three ring circus, does that ring a bell with you?

MM: No it doesn't but...

JF: That must have been the early days.

MM: Yeah. I don't remember that but I remember that there still talk about guys like Foster Brookes who had been active in the flood of 1937...

JF: So Foster was there when you were there?

MM: No, he wasn't but his brother was, Tom Brookes. He had been hired a little before I did.

JF: Who were the people there when you were there. Are there any names that we would recall?

MM: Well, Jim Walton was there, George Walsh who was sports director and later became program director was prominent. Pete Disney was there as a chief producer, his name was Ricardo. That was when people were sensitive about ethnic names, I don't know, Ricardo is a perfectly good name. It was good enough for [inaudible]. Anyway, an interesting thing happened, while I was there was a program director named Dick Fisher, very [inaudible] guy, big guy, authoritative. He had I think... When would the 25th anniversary have been from 10:00'22 it would have been '47.

JF: '47, yeah, right after you came.

MM: It was a big deal and I think it was a broadcast in Columbia Auditorium. At any rate we had a new manager Vic Sholis who would come down from his position as an executive of Clear Channel Broadcasting which was not today's Clear Channel Broadcasting but it was the association of 50,000 watt stations and he was the executive. Mark Etheridge who was a publisher of the Courier met him there and was impressed by him and invited him to succeed Creedo Harris. So Sholis came in almost at the same time I was and he was ticked off because the program director, Dick Fisher, didn't show up for the anniversary of broadcast. And the producer of it was Pete Ricardi... Pete Disney produced it, he was there 11:00and he succeeded to the job because Sholis didn't like that this guy didn't show up.

JF: How about that.

MM: It was a bowling night for him.

JF: Some things are important. Well now what was your role? You were an announcer, what did that entail?

MM: I was an announcer then we were with... I think we were with CBS then and they would say... And we carried a lot of broadcasts, a lot of soap operas.

JF: Yeah, I wonder what your programming was like. Was it network or local?

MM: Yeah, it was a network stuff soap operas and they would say... Today they say... CBS they would say this is the Columbia Broadcasting System and you would say WHAS Louisville and then you'd wait.

JF: You sat in a little booth to do that?

MM: Yeah, a little tiny booth. And there were tricks people played because they'd wait till the last minute and one time the microphone was on a suspension 12:00pulley and some wise guys tied it up with tape and put obstacles in the booth. There was a lot of chicanery there.

JF: When you came you were the new kid on the block, did old timers have advice you or anything?

MM: No, but they were very nice to me. Very good. There was Jim Walton and a guy name [inaudible 00:12:24] and Jack Wilson was there and some guy name Ward. It was convivial.

JF: Now did they also do live band broadcasts, orchestras and things like that? Did they have some house orchestras?

MM: They eventually did. They were doing...

JF: But not at that time.

MM: The big live one was Renfro Valley Gathering that they did remote and that was carried... I don't know if it was carried nationally or not but we were very well known. John Lair, he handled a lot of country singers that later became stars. Later we had a house orchestra of 14 pieces and at one time we had an 13:00afternoon program we eventually called it Matinee with Metz, I was the host for it. We had a girl singer and a boy singer and 12 or 14 piece orchestra.

JF: Who were the singers, do you remember who the singers were?

MM: No I don't but they were nice people and it's inconceivable these days that a station a could afford to have that.

JF: They were on staff there.

MM: On staff, yeah.

JF: Wow. What hours did the station broadcast? Were they round the clock or from early in the morning till the evening, do you recall?

MM: Yeah. They had an all night program Kentucky Calls America.

JF: Really?

MM: Yeah. It was heard widely because there were fewer stations then and they were broadcast all over.

JF: Now this is quite prestigious, a 50,000 watt radio station, wasn't it.

MM: Yeah.

JF: Now, Milton, when you went there... When was you last broadcast at WHAS, what year was your last broadcast?

MM: Probably 2003.

JF: 2003. Did you have any idea you would be there... Were you planning, well this is home I'll be here the rest of my life or did you think I'll get by I'll go here and I'll get to New York or LA or something?

MM: No I made a couple of ventures out of the city but I had no long range plans. I liked what I was doing. I met a wonderful girl here. I had a great life here.

JF: So you met Marion here?

MM: Oh yeah. My wife was a native. She was on the cover of [inaudible] magazine and Mrs Metz didn't raise any dummies and I had a chance for a blind date with her and we lived happily ever after.

JF: That's great. One son.

MM: One son.

JF: Great, very good. So didn't think you'd be there. What were the studios like? You mentioned you had a little booth, was that pretty much the radio station?

MM: Yeah, it was like an enlarged phone booth but it was big enough because there wasn't a lot of live stuff that they did.

JF: Did the local newscast and things like that.

MM: They did the local newscast [inaudible] but the big newscast was at 10:00PM. 15:00A man Pete French was the number one newscaster in this area and he was on and he would always say... He was interesting guy. He had a certain style that may not have gone today but it was very popular then and he would stop in the middle of a commercial and say, I'll be back but here is Milton Metz again. So I said my name is not Metz-again so the next time he said he said here's Milton Metz again again. But with [inaudible].

JF: Sure. Now you mentioned the program Kentucky Calls America that was on overnight, did you say?

MM: Yes it was.

JF: That wasn't a call in type program.

MM: No it was music.

JF: Music. It was recorded music or?

MM: Yeah. It was all that. I was on the all night one for about three days and I didn't hack it. I didn't like. I wasn't well.

JF: What were your hours when you first went there.

MM: Oh no whatever they gave me. Probably weekend shift.

JF: So you did a shift then.

MM: Yeah, it was regular and the guys were very helpful, it was very nice. They all came to my wedding. The joke was that we had a... It was a warm day I think I got... I can't remember. A warm day in May and the windows were open and as the rabbi said do you take this woman, you know that, Arthur Godfrey's radio program was broadcast in through an open window and he was CBS and the guys swear that instead of saying I do I said WHAS Louisville because the broadcast said this is the Columbia Broadcasting System.

JF: And that was your cue.

MM: That was my cue. And they said, I never said I do.

JF: Well whatever, it worked out in the end.

MM: They were very collegial. It was a lot fun.

JF: That's good. The station seems to have a history of that. When I came it as very much that way with you and Bertie and Malloy and all the people, it was great. It was a great time. Well we'll get back to some more radio stuff but I want to ask, you were there when television came along then, that was in the early fifties at some point.

MM: Yes.

JF: Now how did the guys who were already established on radio, were they excited about television?

MM: No, they took it as a matter of course. I wanted to be on it and I thought I wondered how I would do. And I conceived on weather show with the help of my wife. And then things were primitive, you pointed to the map, this is Ohio and that's California and it's going to rain here and it's going to be sunshine there. So I thought of getting a magnetic board and I learned that Kool Cigarettes was looking for a televised program, that's when you could advertise 18:00cigarettes. So I devised a number of symbols with the Kool Cigarette penguin, do you remember it?

JF: Sure the little penguin, yeah.

MM: And I would show a penguin with vertical stripes or diagonal stripes to indicate rain and then a penguin with a sun over him and different ones. So then I would... I knew they were coming down and I prepared an audition, they let me do it, so that as you said rain is forecast you would put up the magnetized figure of the penguin holding an umbrella and it would stick to the map. Not the dumbest idea.

And they came and it was 8 o'clock in the morning for the audition and since I was the only one prepared I got the job. And then my wife had devised something 19:00known as the magic weather writer. The magic weather writer was a box with mirrors in it and so when an unseen hand would write on it the camera would zoom in on it and it would seem like it was invisible writing saying partly cloudy and sunny. And instead of it being backwards which it would be they had the mirror, two mirrors. Until a guy spelled cloudy with a misspell, he left out a letter here or there but it was...

JF: Partly "clouy."

MM: Cloudy, yeah that's right. But it was effective. For that time it was.

JF: And your wife devised that?

MM: Yeah. She did and they built it. I'm always sorry I never kept the thing. I think they tore it up for kindling wood or something.

JF: So you were one of the guys that saw a future in that. You thought there's something here.

MM: Well, I wanted to be a part of it and the great opportunity was that you could do radio and TV at the same time so I did a number of things. I had Ask 20:00the Mayor and that kind of thing.

JF: You were one of the first weather guys I guess on television.

MM: Yeah, Ray Sheldon, I think Ray Sheldon may have had a step in there first too.

JF: But you were noted for... Weren't you the one that would pick out Caribou, Maine or something?

MM: That's right. That was my slogan. At the end I would say and in Caribou the temperature is 25. And people would say why the hell... Why are you mentioning Caribou. Well of course it didn't matter what's in Caribou but it was a funny name and it was always colder than the devil and so I used it as sort of a trademark. Harmless.

JF: How many years did you do weather on television, for a long time?

MM: Oh I forgot.

JF: Yeah, a long time.

MM: I think maybe 19 years.

JF: Yeah, you were well known for that.

MM: I had a theme song, weather, weather, everybody talks about [inaudible 00:20:54] that's the things about the weather here comes the weather man.

JF: Did you sing it?

MM: No, I didn't sing it.

JF: Well you've got talent.

MM: It was a recording of a jingle. It's somewhere in the archives.

JF: Very good. Well now you also did...

MM: Oh I'll tell you what I did once. I said you know [inaudible] they don't always get close up, I said. You don't what I look like because they're distance shots. So I arranged to have a close up and I put a picture of Robert Redford like this, that's what I look like.

JF: Well you know they said television ruined a lot of good radio announcers because... He looks like that. That's what he looks like. But you thrived on it, that was good.

MM: Yeah, a lady wrote me once [inaudible] she said oh I know what you look like. You're a plump little fellow with blonde curls. I said oh yeah, sure. That was before I got on TV.

JF: You did of course weather but you did the program Ask the Mayor but you launched the program Omelet too didn't you? That was one of the first talk shows like that.

MM: Yes, with my partner Faith Lyles and Dave Jones who was the producer. We did 22:00that for nine years in the 70s, it was great.

JF: You had some memorable moments there, do you remember some of the people you had on there, some of the guests, famous guests? Anybody who came through town you had them.

MM: Yeah we had Vice President Bush at that time, senior Bush. Manilow, country singers, anybody who was anybody came by.

JF: I would be on the radio at noon and your program, let's see what time was your program, Omelet was on at what time?

MM: Well, it varied.

JF: I remember one time, I would be on at noon and I would get your guests after they came to you, I got the leftovers they would come to me and I would... But we had Muhammad Ali one day and it was great. I had a throng out there of people just packed, pulled up in front with a police escort, the mayor was with him and everybody was there.

MM: Ali was on my radio program five times and couple of times on TV. I liked him very much. He's just a charming handsome guy and he got in the ring too much and wound up with Parkinson's.

JF: We'll talk some more in a minute about your radio program, just a few more 23:00things about television. You mentioned that at that time there was a great collegiality between WHAS radio and TV, can you talk about that some more? People went back and forth, many people went back and forth with different jobs.

MM: Yeah, because we were in the same building, floor.

JF: And all in the same company.

MM: Yeah and if you had a good idea, I had an idea once for a safety program and they were more liberal in accepting your ideas, you could be entrepreneur. Not that you would get paid extra but if you had a creative idea and I had an idea for doing a safety program for the auto club and got some filming and did that kind of stuff. They did a... They wanted to do a program with mayor and they built a whole set around it, that was when Harvey Sloane was the mayor and I was the MC and it was called Ask the Mayor probably. The only trouble was the mayor 24:00was there to launch great ideas about the future of the city and most people asked him how they get rid of the dog messing up their yard [inaudible]

JF: And you had to control that. But you were always great at that. That was great. So that collegiality continued for many years there. Same building and it crossed over.

MM: And it was a good opportunity if you had a good TV idea, you could do it. And the same thing with radio. I once went... You want to talk about TV now first?

JF: Sure, let's talk a little about TV, sure.

MM: It was interesting. When I was filming they had to develop the film for news that was [inaudible]

JF: You saw a lot of changes there, didn't you?

MM: That's right. That was before TV was very big. In the beginning you had opportunities to try new things and doing commercials was a very big part of it 25:00because it was live and that was before teleprompters and that was really...

JF: That had to give some interesting moments. Do you remember some things there?

MM: Oh really.

JF: Any embarrassing moments that you had?

MM: The worst thing that ever happened to me and all these mishaps were because of live television. I would say that's how you judge a guy, how he does when there's no script. How good they are, a woman or a man, if they can handle themselves all right that's pretty good. So I'm doing a commercial for Pepsi Cola and I said Coca Cola and it was a Friday night and there was no way I could get out of it. And I was just embarrassed and I couldn't wait till Monday. I called one of my bosses Friday night and thanks to him, he said, it's all right I'll see you Monday. It made me feel all right but it was terrible. Once I had... This was live and live would kill you.

JF: No going back. No editing the tape none of that.

MM: The worst thing was pouring a beer on commercial because they wanted a head on it and that's when you could do beer commercials. And they not only want a foam on top they wanted it curved on top, so you had to make a perfect pour. And some poor guy he's reading, not a teleprompter he's reading a paper that's glued to the camera and he's looking and reading it and he's pouring it and suddenly looks down, he's pouring it on the desk, he missed the glass entirely.

JF: He's reading the script.

MM: It was just terrible. And there was one guy Lee Jordan who later when to CBS he would put his, it was like typewriter paper and he pasted it all together. He 27:00had a long cue sheet that he pasted to the camera but it was so long that it went down to the floor. And as he read it instead of them pulling it up so it would be at eye level with the lens he was looking down at the floor by the end of the commercial. Those things happened.

JF: Teleprompters helped a lot of people.

MM: I had to do one on Triple Tilt storm windows. Easy jack a child could do it. And as I said a child could do it, it got stuck. Halfway in and halfway out. And there was no way out of it and the blood drained from my face. Those were the horrible moments of live television.

JF: Yeah, nothing like that anymore, is there? Did you have experience with the teleprompter after that? How did that go? Did that go smoothly?

MM: The teleprompter came later but you'd find that would pin it on, you would write in on your wrist or...

JF: Everything. Learned all the tricks.

MM: But it was chancy though. It was difficult without cue sheets, when the cue were there.

JF: When you were doing the weather do you recall who some of the anchor people were on television?

MM: A guy Engel, I think. I'm sure, I don't remember who it was.

JF: Yeah, it's hard to remember who would've been through there during that time.

MM: [inaudible] was back there he was a good newscaster and I enjoyed it. It didn't have the prominence that it does now. Nowadays you have a storm coming and everything stops and you're the meteorologist. They don't say meteorologist they say meteorologist, Jack. A meteorologist would take over for three hours it's like they were waiting in the wings for bad weather to come.

JF: Praying for it.

MM: There's a cloud out there and I'm going to spend three hours telling where 29:00it is and where it came from. Let's face it, weather is all right but it's not warfare.

JF: One the differences between radio and television was of course, television you're on camera you have to be aware of your appearance, radio was a little more laid back although I think in the early days and when you started and up to a long time even announcers then were pretty professionally dressed, weren't they?

MM: Exactly. We wore a jacket all the time, and a tie.

JF: Even on the radio, yeah.

MM: Yes. And we looked pretty good. I don't remember when that changed but I all of sudden realized a colleague of mine, who shall remain nameless, came in February he was wearing shorts, he's got hairy knuckles and he's wearing sandals, he's got hairy toes, very unappetizing. And now suddenly they're wearing... A sweater was big deal. But it was nice to be dressed up.

JF: It was a profession. It was very much a profession, honored profession. 30:00Anything else about television you can think about, that comes to mind?

MM: No, but we didn't realize we were sort of pioneers, they were doing big things. On the network they were doing wonderful dramatic things and they didn't get too far afield. Then crusade for children came and more sophisticated things came.

JF: You were involved in the early ones of those, weren't you, the crusade?

MM: I only missed one in the last 57 years. But I loved the assignments on derby day, that was good.

JF: Oh. Let's talk some about derby day. You did that for radio and television but you were at Millionaire's Row, did you do that one?

MM: The first time I did the derby was the in field. That was like going through World War Two. Nowadays it's pretty raunchy but then it was [inaudible]. Behind every bush you didn't know what kind of act was going on that I can't mention 31:00this is a family...

JF: Was this radio or television.

MM: This was radio. The first one. And I survived it. And the TV guys saw that I got out with life because you get sophomores who are beered up and they want to jump on the mic and half dressed women were waving their bras around. That was kind of wild there. And I couldn't enjoy the sights because...

JF: You were working.

MM: I devised a good system. I tried to find somebody who had an accent or something not just some mouthy kid who wanted to say hi mom on it. I wanted to get somebody interesting who'd come from Panama or Spain or England and I would listen to them and it would make for a good broadcast. So it was difficult, it was very trying, it was a good test. The next year they put me on TV and that 32:00was even tougher because in the i- field that was really, really something to get somebody because there's always clowns who wanted to get in so you had to fight your way through it. But if you worked hard you would get some interesting things out of it, people with a beard or facial hair and even the men.

JF: You were waiting for that one.

MM: Yeah, set you up.

JF: Good one, still got it. That's great.

MM: But then I got promoted and working with guys like... Wonderful guys like Cawood Ledford, the best man I ever worked with and I worked with some good talent. He was one of America's... I'll tell you why he was so good. He did basketball, football and then the third one, thoroughbred horse racing. I don't know another newscaster, a sportscaster in America who was an ace and he was an 33:00ace in all. And when he shared the microphone with you, not everybody I did... Some people were piggish that I worked, who shall remain nameless, who didn't like to share the microphone. He was a gentleman. Even though he had more knowledge than most of us he never spoke down to you and he gave you your time on mic and it was a very collaborative thing. It was a privilege to work with him, Cawood, whom I dearly loved. Then I was promoted to do my favorite all-time favorite and difficult one was interviewing celebrities on derby day.

JF: Tell us about the difficulty. Most people think that would be a plum assignment, and it was, but what was the difficulty of it?

MM: The difficulty was that they were there to play, they weren't there to do... And some of them had "their secretaries" with them. They happened to be 22 years 34:00old and very beautiful and they want to make a big deal out of it. They wanted fun, they wanted the trip and want to have a drink and weren't ready to talk to you so you had to be careful how you did it.

JF: So you could when you got ready to approach somebody.

MM: Well, it helped me if I knew the host. That helped me. They would introduce me. It was doubly difficult because at that time I did radio and TV at the same time. I was holding two microphones. They were simulcast.

JF: Wow, that's how you did that.

MM: Yes, it was done... So you had to know that what you were saying made sense to both media. And so you had a sound man here and then you had a cameraman there and producer, so you traveled with a team and it's very crowded up in Millionaire's Row. So you have the logistics of working with crowds and you want to go up and speak to a guy like Walter Cronkite or President Bush, if he was 35:00there, or Morley Safer from CBS or Mary Hart.

You had two things to think about, one you didn't want to go up there as some hill Billy shuffling your feet and say shucks ma'am can I have a word. You don't want to play that country rube kind of thing. On the other hand you didn't want to be brash and a smart aleck. And it was only two minutes, about two minutes, maybe a minute and a half to three minutes. And what helps was if you knew something about the person.

I met Steve Lawrence and Edie Gorme, remember them? The big singing team on the Tonight Show. I happened to run into them in the hallway. So you didn't always plan it, sometimes you knew where they sat and sometimes you didn't. And I said how about you give me a couple of minutes. And they were a very nice young couple and it was like serendipity. I found somebody who was really famous 36:00because that perked up the broadcast and I got a good line. I said to Edie Gorme I said, you've been married a long time, what's the secret? She said oh [inaudible]. In those years we've never had a serious conversation.

So if you get people like that they make your broadcast and I've got both radio and TV at the same time so you're maneuvering around. It was very exciting. And then if you knew something about them, for instance I knew that Steve Lawrence was a singer but also he was very good in comedy skits. He did a good german accent. Got a lot of laughs.

JF: [inaudible]

MM: No, they were I think at [inaudible]. So he appreciated that I said, I didn't say you're a good singer, I said I love your work on your comedy. Well, 37:00he lit up because that was something else. I did my homework. I knew the more I knew about somebody the more likely I was to get a nice response and not ask... Learn don't ask question that can be answered yes or no you'll be dead.

JF: That's kind of your philosophy of interviewing.

MM: Yes, I have a strong philosophy of interviewing.

JF: Tell me a little more about that. You said some things about it, tell me a little bit about that.

MM: Well I wrote a code for myself. I made a couple of talks about that. Don't ask questions that can be answered yes or no, with rare exceptions. Do your homework. Learn what you can about the party you're going to interview because you don't always have a paper in front of you. Third, maybe first, is listen. The guy says, yeah, I chopped up my mother with an axe and then you say well how many kids do you have. You don't do that. You listen to what they say.

And then, and you hear this all the time, don't parrot them. You say where are you from? They say I'm from Sandusky, Ohio. Sandusky, Ohio, how many kids do you have? I have three. Oh three. And you find a lot of interviewers doing that. Even Leno does that sometimes as good as he is.

JF: This is [inaudible] but I always considered Johnny Carson a good interviewer [inaudible]

MM: Absolutely. Carson was good. He did my...

JF: Same type of thing.

MM: Well he let people, his guests shine.

JF: That's the key to it, I guess

MM: You can't be egotistical and make the show about yourself although some people do.

JF: Well, let's talk a little bit more about some of the guest you had on Millionaire's Row. You mention Walter Cronkite a while ago. It went beyond meeting him on Millionaire's Row, you guys became friends for a long time, played tennis together.

MM: Yeah, I was never a confidant of his but he was one of the genuine persons and the maybe most important nice person I met and I met a lot of them.

JF: Very influential guy at that time, wasn't he.

MM: When I met him he came here the first time he was getting... He had two hobbies, sail boating and tennis. I learned about that. And he was here...

JF: From your homework, yeah.

MM: Yeah. And he was then the most respected man. I once asked him, I said is it true you're the most respected. He says to me my wife would raise an eyebrow to that. He was just a modest guy and could come along with you. So he was going to get an award from the coast guard for his water works and safety or something and they sent me out to do an interview out at the Executive Inn near Freedom Hall. So it was a beautiful day, I said Walter, and he didn't mind my calling 40:00him his first name, let's go outside and do it. We perched on a stone fence, I've got a picture of it on my wall here. We were just sitting there and he was so gracious we went on for 17 minutes.

So it was so pleasant and it was so nice and I got autographed picture of him where he's looking up at the sky and I'm looking thoughtfully and he says, I didn't think your question was all that thoughtful Milton. It was just a side of Walter. He was just a wonderful guy. So I said, Walter, I understand you play tennis. He said, yeah I do. I said would like to play. Yeah he goes. I said you want to play this afternoon or tomorrow morning. He says how about both. Now, he said but I don't have any tennis garb, no clothes. So I wanted to play tennis with the most... And that was at his height the most respected voice in America. So I got a pair of shorts for him which he promptly, he was a little plump and he promptly split [inaudible].

A girl I knew gave him a racket and I got an 84 WHAS T-shirt. To this day I 41:00don't... I've got a picture of Walter Cronkite wearing an 84 WHAS T-shirt and they never put it on a billboard. What could be a... I've got it in my scrapbook but the station, the dummies, didn't know enough to know they had this great guy with this... So we go out to play, he's wearing all borrowed stuff and we were at the nearest court and it's a public court near, I think it was the municipal courts on Illinois Avenue near the zoo. So we go there and we're playing and he was pretty good. We were playing singles, it was pleasant. And the ball goes on to the next court and the etiquette is [inaudible]. Guy picks up the ball, he raises his hand to throw the ball back to us and he looks over and he sees us playing. He sees Walter Cronkite but he can't believe it because what are we 42:00doing on a public court. Why aren't we on a private court somewhere in a county club.

Is that Cronkite? What's Cronkite doing with that guy Metz. But he wants to play it cool and he throws the ball back and we play. Anyway, that night Cronkite invites us to the event, my wife and I, Marion and I go there and he invites us over to a corner where he sits down and pulls up a pants leg. And there he has tucked into his socks the bottom of his pajamas. You know what he says, I sweated up my Jockey shorts playing with you and I have to use my pajamas. Now where could you hear that?

JF: Most respected man in America.

MM: And so the next day my wife comes at lunch time and gives him a brown paper bag and he says what's in there. She says it's a new athletic [inaudible]. The 43:00only person in America who bought an intimate item for the most famous guy. It was cute story. And I played once with him in New York.

JF: I thought you played some there too.

MM: Yeah, I went there. I played with him up in New York on a funny building it was on the tenth floor, on the roof. And we played with Bill Small who used to be there who is now with CBS, Cronkite and the president of the network. Now this president had to wear, when he played tennis he's a poacher. I don't know if you know what a poacher is.

JF: No.

MM: What a poacher does I stay by a side at the net, he poaches to the middle of the net but because he's the president they didn't try to sneak it past. As soon as they noticed he was fired they started shooting the balls down the alley [inaudible]. It was nice.

JF: No mercy. Interesting. Let's talk for minute about Juniper 52385. How did 44:00that begin? What was the idea for that? Was it another one of your ideas that you [inaudible]?

MM: No. George Walsh ex-sportscaster and program director had heard about... There were some talk shows like that on the west coast. There weren't much around here. And wanted me to do it. And I didn't know anything about it and I heard a couple recordings of this guy on the west coast and that was in the 50s, late 50s, I think. I did it for 33 years.

JF: Was it an evening program when it first started or was it...

MM: Yeah it was in the evening and George would produce and it was... They didn't like the cult of personality so instead of calling it the Johnson Program they called it Morning AM or Afternoon PM. It was ridiculous as if [inaudible]. 45:00So they wouldn't call it by name they called it Juniper 52385 which I probably forgot. I would give the wrong number.

JF: It would make for an interesting program.

MM: I was worried about doing a good program there.

JF: And the callers would call and give the you right number and say Milton it's...

MM: Well they finally put a sign up in the window, dummy there's your number.

JF: How long has the program gone on before you took it over?

MM: I started it.

JF: Oh you started the program. Okay.

MM: And I learned that's... It was a great learning experience over the years because you're flying free without a script.

JF: No other local call-in programs at that time.

MM: No, there were. They started doing them. We had one in the afternoon FYI: For Your Information this was one and because he was such a big voice on the station [inaudible] I have a map to this day with hundreds of pins from...

JF: I remember that map, yeah.

MM: It's dozens of states including Alaska and Panama and so forth and it was a 46:00great learning experience. One of my tests for even broadcasters today and myself is how good they can do without a script. That's why so many Hollywood actors don't do well on TV in an interview show because they're good actors but they can't think on their feet. And a lot of broadcasters, the best ones I think, can do that like a guy like Anderson Cooper and Brian Williams and some of our local people.

JF: How did you initially begin to prepare for that program. It was a whole new territory, how did you prepare for it.

MM: I didn't. I'd just come up with a topic and it...

JF: You had a topic each night.

MM: Yeah, each night.

JF: Did you do research on that topic?

MM: Yeah. And I'd have a guest sometimes and it started off well. You worry about it. I didn't have trouble in the beginning getting, I would have somebody call but generally...

JF: I remember a story, I don't know if this is true, tell me if this story is true. I had one of your producers one time tell me that you had a signal to the producer back who was manning the phones and screening the calls, that if it was a slow night you had no communication so you'd point to the ring finger on your left hand and that meant what? What did that mean?

MM: It would mean call my wife.

JF: And she would do what?

MM: She would ask a provocative question.

JF: And get things rolling.

MM: Yeah. It was not dishonest, I didn't think it but she would help in the beginning to get it started then it went very well and was commercially successful and provided me a nice career.

JF: Well now, talk shows have changed a lot. Let's talk for a minute about how did you... You were very neutral. You obviously had opinions but you'd express those very rarely. What was your philosophy on that?

MM: My philosophy was this, talk about anything you want to including some on 48:00the seam sex programs, difficult programs but I had a couple of rules. If I knew a thing was being said that was a lie I would challenge it.

JF: From a caller or a guest.

MM: Yes. Mostly a caller. I would call them on it. If I knew it was a falsehood I was not going to let them use my program as a forum. The other one, I wouldn't let them libel somebody they wouldn't say Senator so and so is a crook. Now he may have been a crook but I didn't want him libeled on my program without sufficient proof. Those sort of things.

Nowadays of course, talk shows hosts almost don't need an audience because they have their own ideology. They might as well have a monologue. My idea is that a 49:00talk show is for the people to give their opinions, good, bad, valid or invalid. That doesn't seen to be so today. Today a talk show has a point of view. Of course, I had thoughts on all of them but...

JF: And at the appropriated times you expressed those but there was appropriate time.

MM: I tried not, Jack. I'd let the people call and let them give their opinion. That's changed considerably. It seems to be successful.

JF: Were there taboos over the subjects you wouldn't approach or was it open game? How did you choose your guests?

MM: I didn't have a lot of guests but there was some good... There were no... Nobody ever said don't discuss this. And the biggest one I thought I would have was when I'll be talking about sex and sex programs, you know those [crosstalk] I never really got... I had a couple of hilarious calls and one time I lost 50:00control of myself because... Sex can be funny too. you know.

JF: And your expert there was such a, just a sweet sounding lady and she was a wonderful lady.

MM: She had a voice like Shirley Temple and say things... These mature things. Oh Gene, she was just wonderful. But very informative. People learned a lot of things and I never got... The management never said don't talk about sex because I didn't do it with a cheap way or stilted. We would talk without being vulgar. We would talk real stuff Jack. I learned a lot.

JF: You were taking notes.

MM: Yeah, I was.

JF: Any of those times you wanted to call Marion.

MM: Yeah, I'd say, did you hear that.

JF: That was good. Very good. Did you every have any pressure from management or 51:00anything about topics or what to do or not to do or anything?

MM: No. And now [inaudible] is on and guys...

JF: Have favorites. This is talking out of turn but we were having lunch before we came in, Representative Romano Mazzoli came by and you guys were obviously affectionate, good feelings for each other. He must have been on of your favorites.

MM: Oh yeah, he was good and Ben Chandler was always good. Chandler was wonderful and... I got a call from... I saw his picture in the paper [inaudible] he once called up and said [inaudible] program. And once, and this killed me, Jack Parr was riding home to Westchester County and the next night he says, I heard this Metz in Kentucky it was a good program. And they didn't carry it in Louisville. Nobody in Louisville heard it, I heard it from someone else. It killed me because he was very popular at that time. But the station had just broadcast power [inaudible].

JF: Yeah, we have some memorable moments being on the air live like that. I 52:00remember the tornado. I remember one night... The night of the tornado your Metz Here was the central... The power was out, you were communicating calls and I remember there was one call and all I heard was this voice say hello Milton, this is Wendell. Tell me about that.

MM: Well that was... Was he the...

JF: He was the governor, yeah.

MM: Before he was senator and he called up.

JF: I thought it was interesting you two were close enough to be conversational like that.

MM: Well you get to know a lot of influential people there and you behave like a mentional they would treat you well and I got to know a lot of important people. I wasn't their confidant but they could trust me. And Ford knew that he would get a lot storm information out during the tornado. And Dick Gilbert, who was the hero, who was flying a helicopter and I said, either this guy is the dumbest guy in the air or he's the bravest. And it turned out he was the bravest guy.

JF: Yeah, following it from the sky.

MM: I though it was great.

JF: Any other particular moments you remember from that program?

MM: Once I got a call from some people [inaudible 00:53:08] in Columbia.

JF: South Carolina.

MM: South Carolina. They had their own... They were without power and the only way they could communicate with their own people was to call me in Louisville and...

JF: And you were relaying messages.

MM: Yeah.

JF: They were listening and...

MM: I once got a call from a tugboat captain in the delta of Mississippi. I said do you have a fog horn. He said yeah. I said, let's try something, I said I'm going to go dah, dah, dah, dah, dah and then you go dah, dah, dah, dah with your fog horn. So we had a fog horn concert 750 miles away.

JF: That had to be a first.

MM: Oh it was fun.

JF: Speaking of fun, you had a relationship with a lot of the personalities at 54:00WHAS but I know Gary Burbank and Terry Miners both had you on their afternoon programs and parried you some. They had some interesting moments with you.

MM: Oh yeah. Well Burbank, I would say Burbank and Cawood Ledford were the two most talented people, present company excluded Jack, that I worked with. They were clever, they were funny and they were irreverent, especially... And Miners of course I won his affection because he was part of a two man crazy team at another radio station and the radio program hired him. And he was at the little station and we were in the big one. I was fairly prominent at that time and I heard him coming down the hall, I have a pair vampire fang teeth that I put on and I had my back to the door and he didn't know what kind of reception... I was kind of a bookish guy, I wasn't a wild man.

JF: You were a revered figure. Icon.

MM: Well I was... I wouldn't know about that but thank you for that. I turned around and gave him this grin with my fangs [inaudible]. Well, he liked that because he knew that we were accepting him and he needn't be afraid of anybody being standoffish about him. I think he still remembers that. I should have bitten him.

JF: I want to talk about a couple of other things. One was the Bingham family, you had a long associating with them. Which of the Binghams were involved when you first came to the radio station? Was Robert Bingham still involved with the station?

MM: Yeah, I used to play tennis with Robert. He was involved in the management. He's a very nice guy. He's a good news man and I have been an avid tennis player all my life and I used to play with him when he had... Sometimes I'd see him with a little baby under his arm. A nice, very lovely wife name Joan. I didn't 56:00know him well but we played a tennis and I met a lot of... I met as many nice people playing tennis as I did in broadcasting and he died tragically with a terrible unforeseen accident with a clip... What do you call the...

JF: The surfboards, yeah.

MM: Surfboard, that's it. I knew him and Mr. Bingham he was always approachable and...

JF: Just very senior or?

MM: Senior yeah. My favorite was Barry Junior. I thought he was the best of the lot. I really liked. I really liked him.

JF: For what reason?

MM: Because he was so... First he had this crazy waxed moustache, handle bar mustache and he drove a car that wasn't as good as mine and mine wasn't that good. So when they sold the company he got, 60, 80 million dollars or something like that and you could ask him anything. I once said to him what do you do with 57:00your money, Barry. Oh, he says, people handle it for me. He never took offense at that. He was really a good guy. And so he was on my program once on Metz Here phone in program and I said, after he had all this money come in. They'd sold the company already, had the money and he was candid about it.

When he got sick he said... I've got photos of when I had some disease, some heart stuff. But he was open. I spoke on a program and he was there, I said, hello Metz here with Barry Bingham Junior. And the voice on the other line said hello money bags. And Barry said, Milton it's for you. Now you've got to love a guy like that.

JF: That's a great line.

MM: We used to have... Occasionally again, he wasn't a confidant but we were friends and I really liked him and I hated to see pass out of the scene. We used to eat lunch about once evert two months and he'd say where do you want to eat this month Milton? I said, I don't care where we eat. He says, well let's go to 58:00the Jefferson Club. I said that's all right I said but there's only one thing wrong. He says what's that. I said, well I'm not a member if we go there it means you have to pay. And he says that's all right Milton, they tell me I can afford it.

JF: Nice touch.

MM: Nice touch, yes. And a good news man and a conscientious guy.

JF: I want to talk for a minute about, you came to WHAS Radio, you saw television coming and then television became very prominent. Radio was kind of a, not a step child but it was not as prominent as television. But then in the late 60s early 70s WHAS Radio began to carve out its own niche and you were part of that. Do you remember what was going on then and people Hugh Barr and what influence they had? Because you made that transition very well from all of that.

MM: I did. And some of the people who were prominent prior to that weren't so 59:00prominent afterwards. Hugh Barr was the dividing line the traditionalist, good gray citizen of the past and the movement into it. We had guys who thought music by Lawrence Welk was classical music. They thought that was pop. Barr brought a different perspective to it and he changed of that, especially with music which was really the golden days of music before piracy and the digital system. I'm not aware of cosmic changes but it was very important, radio was very important.

JF: Begin to carve out its own news department and all that sort of thing.

MM: Yeah, they did well and they were strong about doing it. They hired Bill Small from Chicago who was very news oriented and they did more investigative 60:00reporting. They didn't worry about money so much. Nowadays you don't find so much investigative reporting because that's a little frill that costs money. But then the 70s were very big in television. Radio was strong, it had, as you said, it carved its own niche out because the car for instance. I always thought the guy who could invent a system that would measure listenership in car radios could win the Nobel Prize because there are millions in the car and you have no way of knowing that they're listening.

There is, pardon me, an enormous car audience which you have no control, you have measure of their listenership. So they did and Drive Time was very big, morning and afternoon because people that were on the radio telling you about 61:00the things that mattered most. Traffic, weather and sports. That's why...

JF: Immediate impact on their lives.

MM: That's right. That's why at that time and even today the morning program is the most popular radio time because people are getting ready for school, ready for work, want to know what to wear, want to know what the weather is going to be, how much time do they have to get to the office, do they need a raincoat, Johnny better be ready and so forth. That's very important. And that's why those times are still the most lucrative from a commercial point of view.

JF: Something just occurred to me about your talk program. In the early days they didn't have car radios. Most people were sitting at home listening to your program and calling in.

MM: Exactly. Yes, and there wasn't the barrage of TV programs and there wasn't as much competition. It was the kind of program that you could listen to part of 62:00it, you could take nap, you could be lying in bed, you didn't have to concentrate on some murder mystery and so forth. It was a big night time audience. It was very gratifying to me and especially long distance callers. We never snuffed off the local people but they got excited too. The local people said, oh you've got somebody from Greenville, South Carolina I heard last night. And I don't know that we broke any new stories but there were some interesting things said, some were hilarious and so forth.

JF: And you maintained that integrity of that for many, many years. That was a real tribute to you.

MM: I tried to do a fair job. Fair in the fuller sense of the word. I didn't want to be a wimp either Jack. I didn't want people to walk all over me.

JF: I don't think they ever accused you of that. Well, let's see, I do want to 63:00mention that you have... You'll be modest about this or maybe won't. Awards over the years, I know you're a member of the Kentucky Journalism Hall of Fame.

MM: Yeah, I was proud of that. That was a long time ago.

JF: Your program probably won some awards too I suspect over the years.

MM: Yeah, we won a national award for the American Psychiatry Association for some programs I did with the psychiatrist Cliff Coomb. There was some good stuff that was educational without being dull which is difficult. You've got guys with mental problems, you can't make fun of it and you don't want to be clinical, you're not running a university. So it was...

JF: That was a unique talent. That was a unique talent you had. A unique talent.

MM: And I won some from the SDX Journalism Society. I did one funny one on what 64:00you call your wife, the missus or my woman and I got a few laughs out of that because everybody has it. I go the old lady, whatever. [inaudible] you don't do that but that won an award for a feature thing we just... I like to do funny stuff. If I could get a laugh I like that.

Then I was on... I was sinister villain on...

JF: Oh yeah, you were on Team RV, weren't you, the kid's television program. Tell me about that.

MM: Well again, I had to make my own career. Nobody said come on we want to put you on there and I said, well you need a villain on that program. They made me Squire McSneer. Now my wife a tall girlfriend who gave her a long velvet cape. And I say tall because that enveloped me in a dark shroud, it was really black, Jack. It was velvet. And then I got a top hat that I acquired in my hat collection. A beat up old top hat. And I painted a curlicue mustache and 65:00emphasized my sideburns and I developed a wicked laugh.

JF: A little stronger example of that please.

MM: It was better in those days I had more lung capacity. And I would do terrible things to Randy in practice. Once I pulled a gun, it was a cap gun, out of my waistband and as I pulled it out it flew out of my hand and it flew over the set. Over the set, out of the program and this was live television. And I'm there without a handgun, I'll shoot you with my finger. I had lived. You could 66:00get away with stuff like that.

JF: Live television.

MM: But what gave me... What put the end of my character I was out driving out Taylorsville Road here in Louisville and I noticed that in a big field there's a bunch of what looked like reindeer to me. I pulled off to the side and there are a bunch of miniature reindeer, about 20 of them in an empty field. In the middle of a city. And I got this idea, I knew what I'd do, Santa Claus is coming, I'll have [inaudible] here kidnap Santa's reindeer. So I got the cameraman out and I brought some bread out and I threw the bread over the fence and they all came clustered around. And the cameraman was taking pictures of the reindeer. And then I arranged with the cameraman, I waved my hands and screamed and they all went running to the other side. And that was how it kidnapped the reindeer. Well, the boss's kids burst into tears and that was end of Squire McSneer.

JF: He was no more.

MM: Well, a guy who would steal Santa's reindeer. Get him off there. That was my short life there but I enjoyed it.

JF: That's great. Any other special moments you remember? Anything about, when we think WHAS we think about, it's had such a storied career for a long time of radio and television together of course it's separated today.

MM: Well it's interesting. When I came there was a night organ music program with a man named Herby Cook who played... He had a pipe organ. Nobody is playing pipe organs only in church today, Bach, Mozart. So he would play and Jim Walt would read poetry. And that was interesting, that was bygone, that was really music... That was radio of the 30s and 40s. No commercials, just doing that.

When Foster Brookes did it, he used to lie on the floor and nobody could see him and read poetry lying on the floor with the music playing. That was interesting. A lot of interesting people.

JF: A lot of changes from the time you started till the time you left WHAS.

MM: We had a music director. Imagine a music director and he had a choir. And he was a rambunctious guy and he was heard to say when they would sing a gospel song he said, be reverent damn it. There were a lot of characters around here then.

JF: Well Milton, thank you very much. We can always resume this another time if we think of other thoughts. You've been very gracious to take the time here and reminisce and give us some laughs and teach us some things we didn't know in the process.

MM: Yeah, you took me back to my youthful years Jack. Thank you very much.

JF: Yeah, it was great. Our pleasure. Thank you.