Interview with T. Gonzales, March 25, 2017

Diana Lalata: My name is Diana Lalata. I am here with T Gonzales and we are interviewing at the Cultural Center. It is March 25th, 11:21am, and today we are working with our Louisville Latinx Oral History project. So T, I'm gonna ask you a couple questions first about family history. The first question that I have for you is, who is the oldest relative whose story you know and can you tell me about that relative?

T Gonzales: The oldest relative that I know. Something that I've becoming conscious of lately, and I think I remember, re-remember it, every time I talk about life or history, family history, that a lot of what I, like when I focus 1:00on family, like it's really like my father's, like my father's side of my family. And I don't know exactly, well I shouldn't know exactly why that is, but I think it's like my parents were divorced growing up and we're in a unique situation of, in the 80s, like my father, having full custody of us, like having custody of us instead of our mom, which was pretty unique at the time, and maybe I don't know what the numbers are, but maybe it was even unique today. So when I think about relatives and things like that in terms of like who I really feel like I have a relationship with or know about, it's also my dad's side of my family. So that would have been my tia Tina. So my tia Tina is, was born in, I 2:00think like, let's see, so I guess she would've been born in 1910, it is, and so she, she's the child, and so, my tia Tina was the aunt of my grandfather. My grandfather, my grandfather's mother, as the story as I understand it, my grandfather's mother died when he was 3 years old and I guess kind of, on the theme here, at the time, what I've been told is that, you know so like it would not have been customary for man or a husband, father, to just raise the children 3:00by himself, so actually, and I don't know, I've just kind of gotten glimpses and so I don't know the facts, you know like kind of the reality behind it, but I think maybe he had some other kind of issues, so anyway, my, his, my grandfather's aunt, his mother's sister, I think then, and I'm assuming, and I'm actually just kind of following that now, and I think that's his mother's sister and not his father's sister, but an aunt. Then, my tia Tina kind of took custody of him when he was three, right so she raised him then. So, my tia Tina then is kind of like my, for my dad, kind of grew up with her as kind of like, grandma, 4:00even though I think everybody always called her "tia." And then, so she's kind of like, kind of like, great grandmother to me, but like actually, like my great, great aunt.

I think like 1906 would've been the year she was born, and I say that because I think like what we understand is that my family, or that line of my family, would have like, you know, come across, like come into the United States, or into Texas, I guess, in 1916. And she was 6 years old at the time. I had the 5:00chance to interview her about her life, when, my background is, I'm a social worker, and so like, when I was, I think I was in my undergraduate program, you know you're like studying life cycle development and so at some point, an exercise we had to do was, we had to, I think we had to like, like the assignment was to interview somebody who was over the age of 70 or something like that and my tia's old. My dad said like, my dad said like when he felt like, he was just like tia's always been like, was always old, he was like "I feel like she was old when I was born," you know when he was born, right? So, yeah, so I did get a chance to meet her, I mean not meet her, sorry, I did get a 6:00chance to interview her, I think when I was probably like a junior or senior in college. So yeah, I think 1906 and they would've spent, they did spend a lot of time, and even today right, like I mean in terms of living in Texas, like the furthest North in Texas my family lives right now is Houston, so not that, you know like, and thinking about even today coming here, I was like trying to look. My dad used to talk about a farm like in Weslaco, Texas, and so that is when you look at the map, like right now, it's just really not that far from the border. I was like looking at that map this morning just thinking about that.

And so, so yeah, they would've spent like all of that, she would've spent most 7:00of her life then just in, you know, south Texas. And then, so at some point from there, she, they, began living in Corpus Christi, Texas, and you know, so one of the things she told me when I interviewed her was that she really had these like dreams of like, I think, you know I don't really know what the realities for like Mexican women at the time like living in Texas would have been, but I think she had like this dream of kind of going to the city, and who even knows how big of a city we're talking about here, but I think just like not living like on the ranch, you know, I think was, not like working the field, I think was just like 8:00a dream for her, of like maybe, I don't know, you know, like having a city job, I don't know, like working in an office or something, and, but, well you know we talked about that day when I interviewed her, was like, that was never, right, it was just like, the realities, of while she herself never had any children, but she was like raising these young people, right, like the family responsibilities for her were great and so that meant staying in place and raising the children and contributing to that, to the family in that way. And so, you know, she didn't get to have a chance to do that, and so, you know 9:00instead, she worked like really mostly like in the fields like most of her life, and like I know that later on in life, sometimes we'd go visit and talk with her, as we were growing up, at least sometimes, maybe during high school, college, I know sometimes we'd go visit, and she would have these like things on her face like a bandage or something like that, and we'd ask her like what's going on, but she, she'd had so much sun damage to her face, so that later on in life, was having to have like cancer cells and stuff like that removed from her face.

And she had a sister, so she lived with her, my tia Maget, like I think I bring up my tia Tina first because like, I just like, in my growing up, like I felt like she's the person I had this like other type of connection with and like I don't really know what that is, and maybe because she lived longer than like my tia Maget and you know, I don't know, but I just always felt like I wanted to like be right next to my tia Tina. But so, she lives with her sister, and they lived in this like, for the longest time, I mean, just you know, a very humble, I guess, we should say, house in Corpus Christi, Texas, the two of them. And they lived with my cousin, Ben. So, Ben was the child to my tia Maget, so the 11:00three of them lived together for a long time. My tia Mague had been married, but I think the story that I understand is that, I think, I think it's my tia Maget that was married and then the husband died like in war, or something. And so, so then for a long time, and never remarried right, so it was just the three of them, my tia Tina who never married and my tia Maget whose husband died and then I think in war, but then I think the child, Ben, so Ben, even as he was like an older adult at some point was still living with them. Ben, I think, had some, I don't, I don't you know, for a long time, I t hought it was that maybe Ben had 12:00some developmental issues or things like that. I'm not entirely sure that it was actually, now as an adult, like understanding things, he may have had some developmental issues, but I think maybe he, I think Ben had maybe like an other, I don't know, maybe, if Ben was like, I don't know, if he had bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, I don't know, like I think it was something else. I think when I was growing up, I thought it was one thing, and now as an adult, like, I feel like maybe I need to go ask like to understand that better.

The three of them are all, they've all died at this point. I think me and my tia, my tia died, my tia Tina died, it's been since my time here in Louisville, so maybe, I don't know. I don't know, 2009 or 2010, or something like that, she 13:00died. She's, she's definitely, she was in her 90s. Maybe yeah, maybe that's it, I feel like maybe she got, I feel like yeah she would've been, yeah, I don't know, somewhere in her 90s then, but yeah so, so that was mostly my tia Tina, like she, you know, I guess I'm curious even now since I'm talking about her, whether she ever really left south Texas for any reason, like what her reasons would have been to travel outside of there. I don't know, but yeah, so my tia Tina is that person.

DL: Could you talk more about how your tia Tina and the rest of your family 14:00ended up coming to the United States and why?

TG: Yeah, well, I don't know if I can. So here's, so I'm actually like part of this, in the past several months, have been participating just through an invitation with a friend who lives here in town, but does a lot of her work is traveling, like almost all the time. So, she had like, she had put together this phone call of people, and it's really like a very small group at this point, there's like four of us, of people who do, like racial justice work or stuff like that, like either, with organizations or within institutions or stuff like that, and maybe just our like, and not even maybe, it's not necessarily specifically racial justice work, but race is a component, anyway, but we're all Latinx folks and like at this point, like, I don't think it's the design of it, 15:00but we all seem to be queer folks as well and so like, we're all like kind of us having these monthly phone calls to support each other and so one of the things that's come up in that phone call is about the ways in which we feel a disconnect from our histories. And how do we, how do we bridge that, like, not, and I should say one part, like our own personal histories, and like our families and the culture and things like that, but then also broadly, like how do we kind of like understand the histories and struggles of Latinx people, like broadly here, in this country. So all of that is to say that I, what I know is that, like I have a cousin who's been doing some of this research, so the date 16:00that he has where the family would have like crossed into the United States is like August 16th, 1916. So that is like the day that he has, right, so we just last year was marking 100 years of you know, residing in the United States, or what's called the United States.

And so, he, my cousin understands that, so my tia Tina being one of the children who's coming, like one of 6 children coming, would have come with their mother, who I think, I think was like a widow at that point, would have come from Halisco, Mexico, and so they made that trek there, and then would have crossed. 17:00Who knows like how long, I mean, you know, like I could, just go on myself to look at a map, I wonder how long that trek was, especially with lots of small children, just to even get to that border area, you know. So, I don't, like, I don't know like the how, I don't know, and the other thing that, the other thing, so as a part of this like phone call of people, so we identify that this is a thing that we want to figure out, and so my friend said okay, you know, so like, you know one of the things like she herself, having kind of been in that 18:00same place before, like the history of thing, like in struggling broadly, in this country, we're not really like taught a lot of history like really in depth to understand anything, but, so she said, you know what if we like start with, start with yourself, trying to figure that out, right, so what's the history that you can try to put together, piece together, so I had purchased some years ago, these two books, of like one that's like called, it's like mostly, I mean there's lots and lots of pictures, I think it maybe even describes itself as like a, like a photograph book or something like that, but there's definitely like narrative to go along with it, it's something like 500 years of Chicano history or something like that. But it's like this picture book, it's really great, and there's like also like a 500 years of Chicano women's history. So I have these two books, so I was like well, let me go to one of these books and 19:00try to figure out what's happening, so I was like reading there, and so it seems like in that, in that time of like, I don't know, like again, just how much history do I really know, but so like I was reading this, and it seemed like from like 1910 or 11 through like 16 or 17 or something like that, like you have like Mexican Revolution happening.

So one of the things that I was reading there in this book, was like, it said something like, you know, it said something like there's like 15 million Mexicans and like a million people died, and that's like, that's incredible numbers, right. So, but so then I'm thinking, so they're crossing in like the 20:00late summer of 1916. Like I think I have, I have to ask myself if this is the reason that they're like moving, right, that there's a war that's happening, right, there's like a, lots of battles, there's lots of death that's happening, and whether or not like that's the reason that they're moving. I don't know, it's like literally like a conversation I started trying to have earlier this month, so I don't really know, but I have to, but for me, that seems like complete possibility, if I'm putting that information together correctly, that, that would be cause for moving and trying to find. The other thing that this book was talking about, which was like, even at the time, that the U.S.'s like 21:00stake in like labor there, like factory labor, and even that, right just like today, so, so the upheaval of all of that then, in terms of like people trying to find safety and security to be sure, but also employment, like right, a source of income, and work, so, I don't know, so the answer's I don't know why and that, but I like, just having very recently, having read some of that, I have to wonder if that is it.

DL: I definitely can relate to the cultural disconnect there and trying to 22:00figure out the history. So maybe we can like bring things back up to speed, and maybe talk more about what you might know, so with your family, after tia Tina, how they kind of ended up in other states or other cities? And maybe how, if your family did move to Louisville, how they got there?

TG: Well, my family definitely did not move to Louisville, it's just me here. I think I probably have the distinction in my family of being the person who like, lives like the furthest north, I think, I mean I don't, I, and that was really, I think my dad is one of, yeah, and even on my mom's side, my mom is one of four children, my father is one of eleven children. All the like, my dad has two 23:00sisters and a brother who all live in southern California and that, they live in like San Diego or Escondido, or somewhere around there, and, but the rest of everybody else still lives in south Texas. I mean, you know, places like, it's either Corpus Christi or Victoria, so my dad, the first, let me see if I have this right, so my dad is one of eleven children, that house where, the house where my tia Tina, my tia Maget, and my cousin Ben were all living, like in my, 24:00in my growing up, right, they, that is the same place that that same house is where my eldest uncle, my dad comes like in the order of like, he's number, he's the second one, and then two other brothers and then my eldest aunt, they would have all been born in that house. My dad used to tell me that like that their umbilicle cords were buried by the tree (laughs) in front of that house. So the eldest five were born in that house in Corpus Christi, and then I'm not entirely sure why like my, I guess it would've been my grandfather, would have moved to 25:00Victoria, Texas. I'm not sure why, probably, my guess, probably for work, you know, and I think my grandfather worked for like the, I think he worked as a city, maybe a city employee, like you just, what I understood was that he worked on, like in the sewers, that's what I understood about what my grandfather did.

You know, it's really interesting, because like by the time, by the time I was born, you know I'm not sure, and maybe my grandfather was still going to work, I don't know, like I just, I don't really recall that, but maybe that's what he was doing. Maybe, I think, maybe he was still working, I don't know, but they would've, yeah, so, my grandfather would be in like Victoria, Texas, whereas I think the, I think the rest of the children would've been born there, but and 26:00so, like I think, I haven't, you know, when there's like 11 aunts and uncles, sometimes it's hard to keep track of where everybody actually is, but I think, I think still like five of them, at least today, live in Victoria. And, so then I have like, there's, let's see, so five plus three is eight, and then my dad is in the Houston area, and has been like most of, my dad like after college, has been in the Houston area most of his adult life. So that's nine. There's an uncle who lives in like, Bay City, Texas, and then, I don't know, maybe, who 27:00knows, who knows where the eleventh person is? Maybe there's six people in Victoria, I don't really know, it's kind of hard to keep track of, but you know, my aunt, my aunt who I love and respect both of my aunts, but, I think probably when I was little growing up, I remember my aunt Yves moving from Texas to California and I remember thinking then that, and so then, that was like a big deal, right, that she's moving away. I just, I remember thinking then like "Wow" 28:00you know like, maybe one day, I'll be like her, not necessarily to move to California because I don't wanna do that, but there just seems something like, kind of like "whoa" like it felt really significant, and it seemed like for whatever reason, and I don't even know if I make sense of it now as an adult, it just felt like a sense of possibilities. So I don't know, but yeah, so at some point, my uncle Michael followed her out there and my aunt Carmen's also out there, my aunt Carmen's husband was in the Marines, and so I think that they, 29:00that's where they were stationed, so they've been out there for a long time. But yeah, I mean I think, gosh, I don't know how long my aunt Yves being the first person to move out there, I don't know at this point how long she's been out there, but I bet you she's been there, I mean most of her adult life. And so she's, she's probably, and she's like, yeah, I guess she would be in her 50s now, so probably like 25 years or so. But like I said, everybody else is, you know, in that south Texas area, you know, and then, and even, I mean honestly, even, even at this point, all my cousins are there. I mean, one of my aunts, 30:00like, the one of the aunts in California, like one of her children has stayed in California for right now, but the other one came back to live in, I don't know, I guess they're in Austin. So, but, everybody else is, you know everybody else is in Austin or Victoria, still in Victoria, or Houston area, my cousins, I did have a cousin last year who like, moved, I guess it was last year, moved to D.C. and he's like, you know, trying that out.

And so, there's that, but I, so yeah, so it's definitely, I didn't get here because my family moved here. Everybody's like at home. I came here, this past 31:00September was 10 years that I've lived here in Louisville. And I came here right after grad school, I went from, you know, high school, to college, to, and that was my first kind of, you know, like, graduated high school from, in the Woodlands, Texas, which was like a suburb of like Houston, and I wanted to, you know I had a lot of friends who were going away to school, and I wanted to go away to school as well, and so I went to Loyola University in Chicago for a couple of years and I remember my dad told me, while we're debating this, this 32:00is a very long conversation in our house, one, the cost of it, and so while my friends were going away to school, we also didn't have the money that like a lot of my white friends' families had, either, but so they, you know, we talked a lot about the cost, and young me, right now, is just err, me today is just shaking my head at young me because yeah, the cost of college didn't turn out, I don't know if it was worth it, not to go to college, but the cost of the colleges that I went to, but so, we had that long discussion and I'll say, just as a part of my own experience that, and because I think it matters for this 33:00part of this story, I do think that, so I am a trans person, and so, growing up being identified as a girl, or a young woman, or whatever, this was a part of even when I was negotiating whether or not I could go to Chicago for school all the way from like the Houston area. You know, my dad, I guess like would talk to his siblings, and they were like, how are you going to let your daughter go away, like that far away, it was like 1100 miles away or something like that, and how you're gonna let her do this and you know, and so, I don't know, I guess maybe, I don't know, I don't know in the end why my dad said yes to that, but, 34:00you know it's always one of those things where I wondered if my, if I had been recognized like as male, then, like, how those conversations would've been different and how that conversation, how my dad's conversation, not just my dad, but conversations with my dad, but like my dad's conversations with like his siblings, like I just kind of wonder how that would've been different. And even like, you know, so, then going away, it turns out it's like really super cold in Chicago, super cold, like just horrible, I'm not sure how like, I don't know, I'm just really curious how any Mexicans survive there, but whatever, it was horrible. It was just like so cold, it's a great city, and it's so cold, just 35:00miserable. So after two years, I ended up going back to Texas, and I went to a small little Catholic school in Austin.

But yeah, like I don't know, like I just always wondered about that. But so, every time I would come home though, my family like, not just like my dad or whatever, like my aunts and uncles, would just be like why are you, you're so far away, and that would just seem like a very big deal, where like so many other families I felt like, like my friends' families, it was just kind of like, I mean they were even proud in a way, like ah, like my kid's off to this school or that school, and then my family, it was a real challenge of like, you know, what's the justification of going so far away? Like you should wanna be, you 36:00should want to be close to your family, like not just like close relationally, but like you should want to be like physically close to your family. So that, it was a challenge, and so then I was back in Texas and that was good, and it was good for me, too, right, like there's like more heat and sun there, and so, which I can always appreciate, so that was good, I went to, I finished school at St. Edward's University in Austin, Texas, and then, right after that, like I went straight from grad school, from undergrad to grad school, like literally had like a two week break. And so then, I went to the University of Houston to get my Masters in Social Work and after I graduated, I was trying to figure out 37:00what to do with my life, my father's a Presbyterian minister, and so he had seen a posting from here in Louisville. The Presbyterian Church USA has their national offices here in Louisville, just right down on Witherspoon Street, right now, now located right next to, next to the Yum! Center. It, you know my dad saw this posting, and it was for this Office of Racial Justice and Advocacy, it was like a one year, paid internship, and so I said oh, well, you know, I tell people this is like perfect, except for it's like with the church, and it's in Kentucky, but other than that, it's the perfect job. But so I ended up interviewing, and I came here to be in Louisville, and I've been here ever 38:00since. I was supposed to be here for a year, and it's been a long time now. So, yeah, that, I came to Louisville right after grad school in order to do that one year internship.

DL: So, can you talk more about, kind of your relationship with your dad and how you think him raising you influenced who you are today?

TG: Yeah, I, you know my dad like, I sometimes, I think that my dad and I, my 39:00dad and I are like so much alike that, my dad used to say, so when I was like, when I was like right in my teenage years, getting later in high school, and we're, you know, you're starting to have your own identity and things like that, and it was really tough for us, I think, because we're so much alike, and then my political identity was like being shaped and really heavily influenced by who, even if I couldn't understand who I was becoming, was really starting to ramp up, and I think that that, that was really hard, that we were starting to 40:00like, be in a different world view from each other, and it's like, as I say as a 35 year old, it is still now a challenge. My, so my father, my father's, there's a couple of other things I think about with how my father raised us, for one, I think my father wants us to be a thoughtful, not, by that I don't mean like, consider, considerate of others, though I think yes, he wants us to be considerate of others, but I think he wants us to be thinkers, right, like he wants us to like, if you have an opinion in my father's household, it is, yeah, 41:00I don't think it's too stern to say that it's not good enough to not have the reasoning or rationale behind how you arrive at your opinion on something, right? So, at the dinner table, okay everybody has to share one thing that they learned at school today, and then inevitably, he brings up an issue of the day, perhaps a current event that's happening, and what do you think about that, and why do you think that? Like, explain your thought process behind arriving at your conclusion. So, my dad is like, my dad's kind of a like, about your opinions, like show your work, kind of situation, it's like working out a math problem, right. So, I would say that I probably carry that into a lot of my, not 42:00just my daily work, but probably a lot of my relationships, whatever kind of relationship it is, and I probably just like bug the crap out of people with that, I mean I think, because I think about some of the ways with which my father irritated me with that kind of like, tell me why, like you know, and at an unhealthy part, or component of it, a component of it is like, this is how your logic is faulty. So it's very analytical, very logical and so I think that those parts, that I was not able to escape that kind of like formation of my 43:00young self and it's certainly part of me today.

I think that my father's also a very religious, like faithful person. I said that he was, as a Presbyterian minister, he didn't, like in my growing up, he wasn't a Presbyterian minister, he was actually a mechanical engineer. He worked for twenty five years, designing drill bits, which are used to like dig in the earth for oil. Like massive drill bits, right. And so, but yeah, so at some point, you know, he was always kind of like, he was always like leading Sunday school and Bible study, and I'd tell people that we used to have family Bible 44:00study, so in our household, so you know, like everyone sits around, and maybe you have to like memorize a Bible verse, or these types of things, and, but that was like, that was also another thing, right, so where it's like, I tell people, people sometimes kind of joke about tele-evangelists and stuff like that, and I was like oh yeah, we had to, we would sometimes watch that in our house, and people would be like oh my gosh, are you kidding, and whatever, and I was like yeah, but we would watch it and my father would say to us, like okay, so tell me, like, you know like this person's like sitting in this like building with thousands of people who have shown up to watch them and all these other people 45:00watching on TV, why does their messaging work? What do you think about their messaging? We also had to be critical of others, even their theological, their theology and like, how you are delivering a story and like being, I think probably in our house, like being highly critical of charismatic people, so these are all like, those are things I definitely carry into, I'm super critical of leadership and I think the part I cannot deny that my father's part of that, I'm like oh, I'm less likely to trust what you have to say if you're like charismatic in any way, I'm just like eh, can't even deal with it, so. So, I would say, you know, that faith and like our spiritual life formation was very 46:00important, and just being analytical and rational. Like rational to, you know, as I look at my own life, too, about like what are the trying to like engage emotionality and my own emotions and things like that, I think that one of the heavy influences from my father is about, is relying really heavily on the rational parts, right, like I would say rational in quotations, right, but relying heavily on that component and really less and giving less energy to our emotional selves. The emotional part of our selves, I should say. And so, yeah, 47:00I mean I think in that, in that kind of way, you know, I don't know.

DL: So you talk about how your family and how spirituality has kind of influenced kind of like, your journey to finding your identity. What are other sources that you consider to be part of that?

TG: Of my spiritual formation?

DL: Of your identity formation.

TG: Of my identity formation. I think for me, and certainly like in terms of my, I don't know where I was having this discussion, but somebody was asking about like when did you, how have you understood yourself to be Latinx or 48:00Mexican-American or whatever? And the thing for me that I realized was that, I'm not sure I, I feel like I have always known myself to be like Mexican-American and why that is, I don't know, except for, yeah, I mean I just kind of feel like it's something that is, I mean I feel weird saying this talked about openly, because it's not a secret, but I just feel like it's something that we just always had, like it's like in little, I guess maybe in the ways that it's like hard for me to describe is it was just there, so like how do you describe kind of just like ways of being, I don't know. But you know, so I don't know, I think 49:00that we, yeah I don't know, that part is just like, kind of always, has always, been there and my understanding of that, and certainly, it can't, I don't think I can downplay the way in which spending time with my family especially kind of highlights that, and understanding that there are, you know, I mean right, so like my tia Tina, I like, I think before she died, I think I heard my tia Tina say 4 words in English. And even really with my grandfather, I don't know how much I, like sitting here I don't know how much, how I would recoll-how much I 50:00remember him ever saying in English either, and so, you know, just like grew up in an environment like that so that my father, when my father was there, my aunts and uncles, and everybody's there, you know, lots of folks, lots of folks are talking in Spanish and not everybody is speaking, not everybody is speaking the same language at one time is really more to the point, not just that it's Spanish being spoken, but you know, people are in the same space and speaking different, like these two different languages and I guess, then generationally, you know, all of my cousins, well I'll say, none of my cousins like have profiency in speaking Spanish, none. And I think all my aunts and uncles, and my 51:00father, made this decision to teach English, and you know from like, right, what I talk to people about, what I understand of the time is like, you know, you kind of have, my father would have grown, when he went to school as a young child, was growing up in an environment where English only is being pushed, and so like he was getting in trouble at school for speaking Spanish. And even, so my father's name is Joaquin, and the teacher at school like wouldn't, didn't wanna call him that. So, so, my father is known as Jake. So, right, like my dad had like, so it's just like, it's literally like a name he's used for so long, it is not like, it is not a name given to him by his parents, it's not like, 52:00literally everybody, and that's it, because the teacher didn't wanna say Joaquin. And so, right, but they would get in trouble for like speaking Spanish at school and things like this, so like when they were growing up, and part of what I've also understood is that for a period of time, there was this like, false information if you're speaking two languages or more at home, then like your children are not gonna ever really be proficient in any of the languages. This really messed up way of just pushing English only, like really just speaking English only even at home, and so, so yeah, all my cousins and I. That's a hard reality for me, I mean one of the things I tell people is that 53:00like, that's a, that is a very hard reality for me in my life, not just because it's nice to know Spanish or whatever, but it essentially, it meant in my growing up, that I was never able to have these, a full conversation with my tia Tina or my tia Maget, or my cousin Ben, or my grandfather. I, like, what happens in this country, in order to make you like, I don't know, like successful, or to be able to advance, or like, to be able to just like be with a little bit less like, maybe a little bit less like oppression or something like that, it meant like literally like cutting me off from my family relationships.

And I think like if I'm honest about it, it's like a resentment that I have. Like, and one that I don't know like, I don't always know how to overcome, like right, like it's, it's, it has been in my life a really hard reality for me. I went to, as my tia Tina was getting, very later on in my life, the last time that I kind of felt like, you know, like you kind of get to that place in life where you see like maybe your older relative, like if you're visiting them, you're thinking "oh, this might be the last time" because you know, six months, somebody who's in their 90s, like six months from now, they could not be living and so, I think about how much like I would have loved to have a more full conversation, right, like that's the thing that people really value. Like if 55:00this is going to be my last time to see you and maybe we both know that, like let's be able to say the things we wanna say, and like, give meaning to each other, and just recognize each other and thank each other for like what we, you know, like what we have, and what we've shared. And you know, working off of the like (laughs), the, I mean essentially the Spanish I was able to, like what I did, I didn't say like in the sixth grade, for like a year, we lived in Mexico City, for my dad's work. So, you know, then like as an adult, working off the like Spanish I learned as a twelve year old, that I, you know, don't get much of a chance to like practice or use or whatever. And that, you know, I guess the nicest thing I can say about that is that that's really unfair. And what's 56:00really true about that is that's like, that's really oppressive to have like, to create forces that cut people off like that. It's really heartbreaking. And so yeah, so I think that's just like, I think that is a thing that in my daily life, and it's something that hasn't actually like let up, even like now at 35, you know, and that is not something that has let up as a like, I think if there's a thing, I mean, you know, all of us have things that we wish we could change about our own lives. For me, I would say that's like a top two thing, I mean honestly, that I feel like would give me this, this connection to a part of 57:00me that I feel like I just can't unlock or something, you know.

DL: I relate hardcore to that actually and I'm sure a lot of other people do, too, so you're not alone in that. I guess one of my biggest struggles, too, is finding that support group or that group of friends you might relate to. So I was kind of wondering like your journey in finding like the people who you call your family outside of family, the people who you call your people--who are those people and how did you meet them?

TG: You know, it's interesting because in terms of like people who might share that same story, like honestly, I am not sure that I could name, I am not sure that I could name five U.S. born Latinx people here in this city, that I know. I'm not sure that I could put that together, of people that I like interact 58:00with. That may be, maybe that's a stretch, but I'm gonna have to like, maybe I'll map it later. But there was a time where it was like literally like me, and that I knew of, this one other guy, right. Like I just couldn't, Louisville is, right now, a place where the, especially like the Latinx community is really like folks who have immigrated or migrated here, right like. And where, it's like really different at home, in Texas where it's just like, I mean you know what I'm saying, it's just like, like being Mexican-American in Houston, or like in south Texas, I mean it's just like, you're a dime a dozen. Like you know what I'm saying, like who, it's just like everywhere, you didn't really think about. 59:00Man, I used to (59:00) laugh here, because culture at home, Mexican culture at home in Texas, is so big that like, right like, even white people just feel like they had, they're like in the mix of that, right, so like when I was like here, and there were people who like don't know how to say like even basic like literally couldn't pronounce tortilla like right, like huh what's that word, like huh, like whatever, and I'm just like, which I've literally had happen to me before, or if you go to a Mexican restaurant here and like, and it has like, have you ever seen that like glossary on the menu that like describes what a taco is or something like and just like, enchiladas and stuff like that, it's like really random here, I don't know, it's just so bizarre, but what I'm saying is that there's like this huge, it's like, that part is so different here. So, 60:00most, I feel like most the people I know here are, many of them have been here in Louisville or, you know, for quite some time, but they are, they're not U.S. born people. So it's like, it's a really interesting like, I just think it's like a really fascinating kind of, reality, in Louisville.

But you know, so, in Louisville, my people, in Louisville my people are, my people are like social justice people. They're mostly, not all, but mostly queer people. And for most of my time here, they have been a mix of like all those people who are, and then there are also like white people and black people. 61:00That's a reality. For most of my time here in Louisville, that is what it has been. Finding myself in community with white and black people who are working for social justice and many of whom are queer. That has been my, that has been really my experience in my time here. And yeah, you know, I was actually thinking, I was thinking earlier this week because, and just like I said, in my day job, do work on some racial equity stuff and at my time at this job, that's like what I've been doing, but then also like, my community work outside of my job, I was remembering back when I think there was this like, I don't know if 62:00you know this group, Showing Up For Racial Justice, right, so like when they were starting, like really nationally, but the local group was starting, right, all the, this is happening near or at the same time, but kind of going from this national kind of call out to locally what it might look like. We met, some of us, like a friend of mine, or two friends of mine, asked us to come to a meeting, a group of people, come to a meeting at one of their houses, and they're kind of talking about this right, you know Showing Up for Racial Justice is like in response to the like growing like, the backlash against President Obama and really like, that, the Tea Party movement, right, and so like, we went to this meeting at their house and some of the big questions were like, that 63:00people were talking about, you know, so like what's the role of white people, right? And like, you know, and then like, and what's the role of black people, right? They're having this discussion and all these different components and like, what, and everything, and, so we get towards the end of the evening and they're like okay, is there any other questions left? And I was just like, I remember just sitting there, kind of like, okay, like I was like, you know, raising my hand a little bit, and I was like what about brown people? You know what I'm saying? And that's the thing about being in Louisville, and like I understand that to be like so much about the U.S. south, right, is that like, it's like so white and black, and I understand my, I understand my place, you know like, I don't even wanna say place, I understand my like being positioned 64:00in that. I under, like that part, I really get. And I'm a person who sees as a call in my life to be like working in support of black liberation, like I feel that strongly. And I also am trying to figure out like, like where do we fit? You know, like, and especially where do we fit in a place like Louisville? I mean I'm not even sure yet, like if I can get myself to be like where do we fit in a place like Kentucky? Like I'm just trying to fit like figure out like where do we fit in a place like Louisville, right. Because you know, there's just, 65:00there are growing groups of Latinx people here, and there's also this like serious disconnect between like very established people who have some community clout and power, right. And those who are like much newer to our community who are like oftentimes very poor, very poor people, and like who are, who do different types of work and labor than these other folks over here, and have just different, you know, different realities that they're operating out of, and so like, and so with these relatively small numbers, that I even mean by, small like within the city, but also like when you compare us to other places in terms 66:00of like reaching any kind of like density, like you're just not there yet, but moving maybe. And those numbers are for sure growing, and one of the things in my decade here that I've been trying to figure out are what are the ways in which we, what are the ways in which we are positioning ourselves to really be, to really have and to be shaping Louisville to be a city that also works for us. A city that we are, yes that we're giving to and that we're engaged in, and that is also in part being shaped by us, right, and I don't know what that looks like 67:00yet, I don't know exactly what it looks like for our communities to be organized here yet, or, you know, in all kinds of ways, right, to have political influence here, to have, to be able to be shaping our neighborhoods, you know what I'm saying, like even at that base level, to like, right, I don't know what that looks like yet for us and I'm curious about how to play a role in that.

And yeah, it's just something that like, it's something that I've thought about for a long time, and like again, with my day job, like all the time, it's so 68:00much white and black, and I just wonder about, and also how do we move in Louisville that may not, that may or may not be ready to recognize us just yet, and so, you know, 'cause it's like, it's like, Louisville's just like this overgrown small town, and in small towns, it's like all about your relationships and I wonder like how we're building relationships that we need to be part of the conversation, to be part of decision making, to be part of like building like powerful communities, you know. I don't know that yet. And not that it's like, I say that now, it's not like for me to figure out, but I do, I'm trying to be part of like figuring that out. I wanna be part of like helping that be a 69:00reality, and yeah. I just don't know yet, at this point.

DL: I wanna talk more about community organizing, but first I wanna touch on like more of your identity. So, you mentioned that growing up, you were perceived as female and you talked a little bit about your transgender identity and finding community in Louisville with your queer identity, so could you talk more about those, and how you came to that?

TG: Yeah, well, you know the interesting thing is that, it's really fascinating I think the ways in which some of what, how powerful language is, right. We just had all this conversation about language and what language you speak and who 70:00that gives you access to and things like that. Well, there's also like, this other part of which, just like vocabulary. And I am, I wish that, I think probably from a very young age, I'm not, I am not a trans person who says like "I always knew this about myself" that is not my history and one of the things about that for me, I think, is like, I didn't have a word. Like, and I'm not sure yet that those words exist, and I am, while I am, I identify myself as a trans masculine gender queer person, I don't say, for me, and this is not the case for other trans people, I don't identify myself as a man, I don't even identify myself as a trans man, and so I think it's this like tricky thing and I 71:00feel like probably it seems a little silly that it would've taken me so long to kind of come to an understanding about myself, but really, I think it's not that I had trouble coming to an understanding about myself, but that I'm trying to like be seen in a world that does, that maybe is not yet like, those words don't exist, and so I have to make a decision about just being and not necessarily have to be so focused on what the words are. So, probably for a long time, I remember I used to like, when I was a kid, I used to, I always used to, very, I was very active in imagination right, so I was like imagining having these conversations with like, you know, where I was playing the role of someone, I 72:00don't know, but always in those, I was always, I was always either like a boy, or just not a girl, who is just really how I would describe that. I was really just never a girl when I was in those things. I kind of always felt really put out by having to, what I felt like, and I think honestly like I feel like probably a lot of act, like girls, feel this, too, about being put upon like you have to do these things, right, and so that's something that I recognized, too, that it wasn't that it only felt like being put upon me because I wasn't a girl, but people just do that to people they perceive as girl, like put a lot of things on them that they really shouldn't have to put up with, you know, and so. You gotta look this way and you gotta dress this way and talk this way, and do these things, and this is what's acceptable and this is not and you know, know, 73:00why should I let you like go after your dreams to live somewhere else, and all this stuff. And so, you know I think I was, I was feeling for a long time, like hey, you know, this isn't, there's a lot of this that doesn't make sense for me.

And I remember I asked my parents, I asked my parents for my senior prom if I could go in a tux, and again still like at that point, like no, I think at that point I had told my dad that I was, like I was attracted to girls, like I kind of had, or at least there was this one girl that I was like totally in love with. So I told my dad that I was like in love with this girl, but I had, we 74:00hadn't talked about gender at all, really, or yeah, at that point in high school, like at all, we hadn't talked about gender like that. And you know, so I remember like, I asked them like "Can I go into a tux?" and they said, "Nope. No way." Right, so I had to go in a dress and man, like I feel like, I tell people like, man I love going to a drag show, but I don't do drag, but that night at prom, I felt like I was doing drag, like in this dress and like, they had done my hair, just all these things, my mom wanted to get my nails done. I was just so uncomfortable, but I honestly took a long time, like I remember at some point, like, so when I finally was like yeah, yeah I guess I'm gay or whatever, 75:00and I remember a friend being like, "This is so awesome! You're a lesbian" and I remember thinking "Whoa, why would you use that word to describe me like that is not right, like I'm definitely not a lesbian," and even then, like this is my adult life, like I couldn't, right, and like all love and respect to lesbians, but I knew that that word wasn't right for me, and I couldn't, I just couldn't figure it out yet. I couldn't figure out why is that, gosh, I honestly, it's taken me some time to get over this, or just be able to recognize what it was. For the longest time, I actually felt like "What is wrong with you?"--you're this like, your people see you as like this activist and all these things, and 76:00you secretly have this like internalized homophobia and like not being able to like use that word "lesbian" to describe yourself, and I just, I felt like I had this secret shame and I was like "Why am I unashamed of being quote-unquote "being a lesbian" you know, or whatever, or being identified that way?"

And then it just like turned out that like well, you know, you're not ashamed of being a lesbian, you're just like legit aren't a lesbian, and so like, and I had to figure that out, and I think I was going through some life, you know, like other life shifts and then I was like, you know, I think this is the, I think I'm ready, or the next step that makes sense for me is to like start a like, medical component to transition, I'm not, I'm also not a person that says like 77:00"I transitioned" or like whatever, I think what I tell people is that I am always being and I am always becoming, like who I am today is not, I hope, is not the same I'm gonna be in a decade. And the words I use today about myself might not be the same sometime from now, but I am today, and I'm becoming, and so, you know, that's like where I find myself, it's kind of like I am, you know it's weird because a lot of people have a hard time understanding these changes, and I'm like well, you know, like, try to think about like, yeah, you know, I guess if you were like a four year old and the next day you, you know, if you're a four year old and the next day you become a mother of a small child, like that 78:00would be, like you know, if you're viewing it in that kind of scope of things, like these things are just right next to each other, like that's what I can see, it's like okay well that would be weird, but that's not how life happens. You're a four year old, and you grow up, and you learn a lot of things, and you have a lot of experiences and like, maybe someday, like some people who were four year olds once become an adult who have a child, you know, and these are things that evolve over time, and the four year old you could never have envisioned like what it would actually be like to have a child, to be a parent. But life unfolds, you know, you're just becoming that, and you know, the same as like when you have a six month old, you probably can't imagine what it's like to send your kid off to college, and you know, go to your kid's wedding or something 79:00like that. Life is just happening and it's evolving and you are becoming lots of things, like overtime, like all of us, our identities are always changing and this is just one of those, I think it's, for whatever reason, and probably because like, I don't know, like I think it feels like, gender feels like such a permanent thing for people. And that's, you know, like I try to, I try to listen to that when people talk about what that means for them, and it's just like not my experience, so you know, and I'm a person who like really understands like the full weight and gravity of decisions or whatever, and steps around an evolving gender, kind of like life experience or whatever. But yeah, you know, 80:00it's, it's just a thing that, and it has, it certainly, I say that as like, from the inside out, now the outside in is this whole other thing, that I spend, that I do spend a considerable amount of time around, like some activism or support, for writing supports to people because, while it feels like a thing that is just evolving and it's an okay thing from the inside out, from the outside in, there's a lot of oppression around that, and so. And a lot of, like on the individual level, there's a lot of like hard things, relationally, but then on a societal level, there can be oppression and there is oppression. So, you know that's how like, that's how it evolves for me, I think.

You know, my being queer, my being trans, definitely, you know, I'll say from my 81:00father, that's like not his favorite things. I think he's always trying, and certainly life would've been easier for him if I was his daughter and would have gotten married and had children by now. I think that would have all been easier for him, probably just be easier for him, too, if I didn't have the politics that I do, but you know, all luck of the draw for my dad, I guess. I also, like I have a, I have a twin brother, and this part, especially, I mean especially like the trans part, is very hard for us. And well, I should be more clear, it is very hard for him. And you know, we, in the past, the past almost four years, 82:00we haven't had much kind of contact at all, just very little, so that, that is very hard. And yep, that is very hard, and it's just, it's unfortunately a pretty common place experience for people who are queer or trans and you know, I will hope that at some point, it will be less hard for him.

DL: Can you talk more about like your individual experiences with oppression? I mean not just with your queer, trans identity, but maybe the intersection with being part of the Mexican-American community?

TG: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's really interesting so in like growing up, where the first, where we lived when I was in elementary school, there was like all these other like, like so many people, I mean I just felt like so many people are my elementary school, were also Mexican-American. Like it just really didn't seem like a big deal to me growing up, but then in the fifth grade, my dad's company moved to the other side of Houston or something like that, and so we ended up moving to this place called the Woodlands, Texas, on the other side of Houston. And it is fair to say that this is a, The Woodlands is a very, it's an affluent area, and the people like, that just like the makeup of who I went to 84:00school with, just really changed. And there wasn't so much, well I kind of had this sense that, you know, there was probably a mix from before my elementary school of like both like, kind of poor or working class, but probably some professional folks, just kind of like a mix, you know, of people with various, like, experiences and income levels. That was like not the case when we went to this new school, it was like very, almost entirely white, I mean something like The Woodlands, the year that we moved there, would've been like something like the town, like the community itself, like 97-98 percent white, I mean it's just 85:00like very white. I was coming from this place, right, where I had been like, in the like, some of the like, whatever they called the "Gifted and Talented" program and all this stuff, right. And then I was moving to this place like, where these students were like, they had other resources, they had so many other resources and all these things and all of a sudden, I was like, "Whoa" like these are like people with a lot of resources, and that kind of translated into my mind like talent, like it just did, like it, I was like, oh wow, you know. Their school projects, like we had to like work on a project and they would like bring it, it was just really different. I remember in my reading class in that 86:00fifth grade class, we had to like read a certain number of books or something like that, and I just honestly like, and the rigorousness, is rigorousness even a word? Is that, can you say rigorousness? I don't know, of my previous school, just like in no way matched up. So, I actually like, it's one of those things, and I don't know really. I'm not going to say what book it was, but I, we just had to read something like insane, like it was like 100 books or something like that, and everybody else was reading these like quote-unquote like "chapter books" and I was just like not, I could read those books, but a hundred of them, 87:00over the like, you know what I'm saying, like I just didn't even know, I don't even know, maybe I could've done it, and that was even the point, maybe I could have done that, but I didn't even know that was the expectation.

And so then, I was like turning in my lists of books and it was just like not on the same level of these other kids. And I, that was one of those things where you realize like, coming from this other environment, where the expectations and the reality is just totally different, into this place where it's like so heavily resourced and like, the expectations are so much higher, even at the fifth grade, I think for a long time, I was just like, I don't even know if I told my dad or my stepmom, like, I had this really embarrassing kind of feedback from the teacher about this. I just don't, I don't even know that I ever told my 88:00dad because I was just like ashamed, because I'm not performing at the level of these students. I felt then, probably, like I would today, like I'm a reasonably intelligent person, but I, it was just really different, and that was, it took some time to be adjusted to. Those, I think arguably, I would not say that I'm, I think that, you know, on the scale of like skin colors, my skin is fairly like, it's not, I'm not very dark person, but I remember like, I remember these students, which for me it's not a thing, I think probably in my, I think probably in my younger life, I thought I was like darker skinned than I am, and I was like, I was good with it, I felt proud of that. Today, I recognize that maybe I'm not like as... but I remember sitting in an art class, and these, this 89:00is a fifth grade, sitting in an art class, and there's like these two other students there, both white girls, and I remember one of them, they were talking to me and they were like uh, do you, like, do you speak Mexican? And I was trying to tell them that like Mexican's not a language, and like, you know, I was just kind of like oh gosh, and I just felt really uncomfortable, right, like I mean I was, at this particular school, because we moved the next year to Mexico City, that was my only semester at this school, so I was just like oh. One of them like reached over and went like that, like ran their finger across 90:00my face, and were just like oh, it's just like, oh that's just like your skin, it's not like dirt, you know. And I remember being like what? I never, you know, if you're like, I mean I was like eleven, right, like what did I know about how do you respond to that? And I think it's like one of these things that I kind of like again, like I don't even think, like I didn't tell my dad that, you know, or my stepmom, like what are you supposed to, what can you do about that? Like they, you know, and I only mention what color of my skin, because I think it didn't even matter what color my skin was, they were just letting me know that I was different by doing that, it was about like, it wouldn't have mattered, like, like it doesn't actually matter, like the tone of my skin. They were doing that 91:00to let me know that I was different from them. And that they had the power to let me know that I was different from them.

I, you know, through, I was reasonably successful going through high school and things like that. I do remember, you know, if you can, if you can fit in like or whatever. I remember the people at the church, were like, if the Woodlands was a very white place, going to a Presybterian church is about as, I mean you really like, really cannot find yourself in much whiter spaces, like a Presbyertian church in a town like The Woodlands, Texas, I mean like honestly. I remember there, like this one Sunday school teacher, would be like "Oh, we don't really think of you as like Mexican." And I was like oh, I guess that was supposed to be a compliment, but mostly, it's like, right, like this erasure of like, and I 92:00was like whoa, but we think of ourselves, like what did that mean? And why do you think that we just care to be seen just like you, you know? As if we're like, why, like why, why do you assume that that feels good for us? Then, next, I was like, I just like, I don't know why that I'm thinking about these little moments of like, I remember, so I remember being like a freshman in college, and I was like sitting in this English class and I remember, I feel like I wanted to challenge like the kind of, it was like we were learning about or reading about different types of fem, like feminism. I don't even know about different types of feminism, we were reading about certain types of feminism and this is like, 93:00only, too, like language I learned later, like right, again, like that vocabulary I didn't really have. I feel like I was challenging the professor about a concept she was conveying to us. It was like, it felt like she was conveying it as like fact, you know, and I was challenging it, and I remember her just like in front of everybody. I'm in the back row, and she's like at the very front, and she said, "Well, you know, if that's like your line of thinking, or whatever, you know maybe college just isn't a place for you." I was like, she said that like, it wasn't, it really was not honestly until like much later 94:00than, I mean I remember being like, at the moment, just kind of pissed that she said that, because it was like, you know, whatever, it wasn't really until later that I was able to process like, I think that was deeper for her than just like a random student challenging her, you know, but whether or not somebody like me, you know, like had the right to be in a learning space, had the right to challenge her, like thought at all, to like, analyze, or critique anything she was saying.

And not just because I was a student, you know, like later, it was like later that I was like oh, like she was trying to give me this other message of like "you don't belong here." I don't really, you know, I was kind of like, you know, 95:00like what do you do with that? Because my dad like, I think one of the things, if I ever have children, I think one of the things that I probably would approach different than my dad is like, is like my dad didn't really like, I'm not sure how much my dad prepared us for like other people's, like just, on the surface rejection of us, you know. My dad's kind of like, work really hard kind of person, and that will open the doors. And the first time that honestly, the first time that we had a conversation that kind of provided different messaging than that, was actually a few years, like just a couple of years after that happened and I was still in college, but now in Austin. And my dad, at that 96:00point, had left his job and was going to seminary and he, we had dinner one night and he dropped me back off at my dorm and he was telling me, he was getting near the end of his seminary education, he was going to be looking for, you know, where to be a minister, like a calling, as they say. And, he said he was thinking a lot about what his next steps should be because again, a Presbyterian church being so white, somebody like my dad was not likely to get one of these callings, like people, in general, want to have a pastor that's like them and for most Presbyterians, my dad is not like them. And this was like, you know, this was the first time that like, I don't know, maybe I was 21 97:00or so, this was the first time that my dad was kind of being really open with me about that, like just being really direct with me about those barriers, where I kind of felt like for most of my life, he was just like, you're smart, you can be successful, work really hard. And then he was like, I was like, man, now you're really like, at 21, you're telling me this true thing, you could've been preparing me my whole life for that, but like, you know, so yeah.

DL: Sounds like you've had like a lot of experiences that have like really influenced who you are and some of those can be kind of traumatizing. So what are some sources of healing that you have--things of self care or things that 98:00you channel your feelings of activism through?

TG: Yeah, I think, I mean here's, I do spend, I tell people like, right, I have my job and I have my work, and my day job, but I do what I do, and it's focused on a lot of similar of the same issues, but within an institution, and then, my work is everything else that work has looked, like focusing on, you know, immigrant rights issues and racial justice issues and LGBT rights, for sure, and I think the thing about activism for me that I realize is that, it's a little 99:00bit about all the time, like finding the things in me that, that I can put to use for doing good and right and just things. Like trying to advance that. So, I get to, even though there are a lot of losses, and there's a lot of disappointment, and it's really a challenge, and you have to kind of stretch yourself, there, activism makes me feel like I get to be a little bit in touch with like the part of my, of like the power of myself. And because we're always working with others, then, it like helps me be uplifted by the power of the collective because we get to take action, like, for, like for ourselves, and 100:00also, like, on behalf of an and with others, so I think that the healing part for me is about being in touch with power, like that internal power and collective power. I am, I'm like at a space in life where I'm trying to figure out how much work I do and things like that, I'm always rotating through thinking about that. Our dad thinks that I'm like a workaholic (laughs), and maybe true, I'm trying to figure that out, but, but I think that's a part of me that feels like, I mean I love the analytical part, the thinking parts of 101:00strategy and things like that, tactics, that part of it I love, and I think the reason why is connecting with that power part, and it's also, the reason I put so much time into it, because when I'm doing that, then I feel like okay, this is about what we can do together and that feels really powerful to me.

And, you know, and it's, it can be exhausting, so that's a part of like trying to figure out the balance, like the self-care part. The self-care part I know less about, right now, and you know, I'll try to figure it out in time and over time. But, but I will say, I will say this, I think for like me, part of also 102:00that the healing aspects of it is the, there's lots of people I do work with, but a smaller group of people that I feel like I build like, real family and community with, and having that time with those group of people, then, is also like a sustaining aspect of the work. It's like being able, I feel like I have a place. Before, I think in lots of ways, before finding my way into this like, into our movement building work, to this movement, our social justice movement, 103:00and specifically here in Louisville, I think probably for me, I didn't feel like I had a place, and being in that community and building certain relationships with folks, like, on a real deeper level, it makes me feel like I have a place. And yeah, so that's like, I don't know, like I think like other people are always searching for their place, and what's the meaning of all of it, and for me, I think I'm lucky because I've found a place that holds, that the meaning is very clear for me, and my sense of "I belong" like "I belong here," my sense of belonging, in that community is just very strong to me. Like I, in the most 104:00part, like for over this past decade here of being part of that community here in Louisville, have not wondered or doubted, or been uncertain about whether or not I belong. And for that reason, then, like finding that space amongst people who do have some similarities with me, and that like we talked about not sharing all our same identities, there's like, I wish, yeah, I wish there were more Latinx folks in those spaces and like building in the same way, and all of that, and there will be. I feel certain of that, that there will be, too. But in those circles and in that space, and in that work, with this community that we have 105:00here, like I feel like, I feel like okay I belong.

DL: So touching. So we're almost out of time. Is there anything else you want to touch on or add to your interview?

TG: I don't think so, I feel like I'm gonna need to like, pay you, because it's like therapy (laughs). No, no I think, no, I would say though that I feel like a lot of, I mean I have a lot of curiosity, but also just a lot of hope for like building a powerful like network and community, an organized community of Latinx folks here in Louisville, and it's something that like again, I want to put time 106:00and investment into, and I'm like hopeful that there's like other folks who are wanting to do that building. I think that we have a long way to go, and there are some days where I'm like oh, like you know, I tell people it would be a lot easier, like you could just move somewhere else, and find these kind of communities that already exist, and maybe they have their own issues, but like the formation of it already has happened. But I also feel like that's the other, that's like the really important part of those of us who are here, being here, and being committed to this place because the potential and the hope is like so great. So, I'm, I'm hopeful that over the years that we'll see that kind of a new reality for organized and like powerful Latinx communities being present 107:00here in Louisville.

DL: Well, thank you for sharing your story today.

TG: Thanks for having me.