Interview with Braulio Mesa, March 14, 2018

David Womack: Good morning, we are group Uvas Quemadas. We are interviewing Braulio Mesa, ESL instructor. It is March fourteenth, 2018 at 7:45 A.M. Group members are Jocelyn Garcia, Lexi Williams, Connor Clark, Angel Acosta, and David Womack. Members attending the interview are David Womack, Angel Acosta, and Jocelyn Garcia.

DW:  Good morning, Mr. Mesa.

Braulio Mesa:  Good morning.

DW: Okay, Mr. Mesa. We had talked earlier-- you had some notes... we made some notes on your past, mathematical and physics, masters in education from Russia, and also a secondary education... you did help start the ESL Newcomer Academy, 1:00and there's been some various awards. First off, again, thank you. Could you tell me about how you obtained your education and where you started from?

BM: So, after high school, [pause], I win the scholarship to move to-- for five years-- to Russia to start. This was a scholarship because my GPA, GPA in Cuba was very high and for that reason, I went to start in Russia to finish my bachelor's degree in physics and in math, even in [laughs], in Russian language 2:00too, because after regular class I went to university again to try to take my degree in Russian language.

DW: So, forgive me, Mr. Mesa, we had talked earlier... you were born in 19...

BM: I was born in 1961 in Cuba. I released from Cuba... [laughs]

DW: And what year did you graduate your high school in Cuba?

BM: In... I was graduate for high school in 1971, 79. 1979.. and then I went to Russia for five years. So from 1979 to 1980... and five more years. For now, I 3:00am finished. My university in Russia in 1985. After that, I returned to Cuba and started to work in Cuba, like a math and astronomy teacher. Because my course in Russia included astronomy. A course in my... [pause] I made some investigation about the astronomy subject. And for that reason, after I am finished I start to work in Cuba and for two years, I teach astronomy in 12th grade.

DW: What do you remember most about your home country or city you came from?

BM:  [sighs] The weather, beach. And the time that (pause), we rallying for the free... the memories' very nice but, I come to this country in 19...19... oh I don't remember, yes 1998 and I never returned to Cuba. So, I only have memory 5:00about my country, very nice memory, but.. but, I remember that some not good news about my country in this moment. Economy, economic... things and this is one of the points that I immigrate to this country was for economic problems. All my family has very big economic problems, and for that reason we decide to 6:00immigrate to this country. I applied for the lottery, a special lottery, I was very lucky because I win the lottery in 1998 and in this year, we-- my whole family, so my wife [sniffs], my three kids and me, come to this country. 

Angel Acosta: Again, can you tell us what part of Cuba are you from?

BM: Okay, so, I born in the country of Cuba.. Santiago de Cuba. And when I was 12 years old, all my family-- so my parents, moved to Havana City. So, my root 7:00is from the heart of Cuba-- Santiago de Cuba and after that I move to the metropolis of Cuba, this is Havana City. [laughs] The capital. And, it's very nice country. The people, the Cubans are very friendly, but political situation and government... I don't know, I don't like this part of my country-- the government. For that reason, all this is not for that reason, this is one of the 8:00reasons that I decide to immigrate with my family. I remember that I, in Cuba, in my twelfth, thirteenth years that I work after I was graduated, [sighs] I prefer different pedagogy and motivational book and only one was [pause], printed because my politic idea sometimes is not the same as the government and for that reason [pause], that's right. This is--

DW: And if you wouldn't mind us asking, Mr. Mesa, could you possibly elaborate about the political unrest in Cuba when you were a young man? The things that, what I mean by elaborate, the things that encouraged you to want to get an education in Russia and obviously there was a lot of political problems in Cuba. Could you elaborate on those issues during that time?

BM: So, I talk about this a little complicated, but, when I was young, high school, middle school and elementary school student, I would feel nothing about it. My elders were very nice. So, I like any Cuban kid, play, went to the 10:00school, and did everything that everybody in Cuba regularly did. But, after, when I went to Russia, when I go outside of the Cuban region, is correct because is region of regular, so you start to something different and then you start to 11:00think if your life is the correct life or not, and then I start to understand that this is not correct life. That the government in Cuba, tried to, you don't know too much about around of the world because then you will start understand that you really live in the wrong, beautiful country, but like a ruler. And then, was very complicated because I was a teacher in Cuba and sometimes I can't 12:00say what I think because if I explain to my students when I teach in Cuba, that my politic ideas is different than the ideas of the government, I will be fired. And for that reason, for some years, I put like a mask because my first goal in Cuba was teach math and physics. Why? Because this is my favorite subject and I 13:00love this subject. And usually, when I teach, I always try to motivate the student. And for that reason, for example, I remember I bring for just in case, I can talk about the first book that I, the first.. one, one of the books I finished in Cuba was [pause], this is one investigation about Albert Einstein's life, to motivate students study physics and math. So, but, I did a little mistake and I include some of my ideas and for that reason, they never was 14:00publicate in Cuba.The second... the material that I work in Cuba... and I...and I went to the international... congress with the first book... Pedagogia 94... and I went with the second one to Pedagogia 96 [pedagogy] This is two different congress about investigation, pedagogy in school investigation. So the second one was Enigmas, Hypothesis and Curiosities, this is I... I collect some enigmas, hypothesis, and curiosities to 15:00motivate students studying Physics, Math... Cuban history, but I remember... I remember that some friend tell me, "Hey, please, if you want that this book or this material or this investigation go out, can you include the patriotic symbol of Cuba?" "Oh wow, nice idea!" and for that reason, I include the history of the... in Cuba exist now, a country... one... legendary animal from long, long, long times ago, this is almiqui and the history of the Palma Real and the history of Mariposa, 16:00this is the national flower and for that reason, when I put these topics in this investigation and I use in my class... So [laughs] I went to the Second International Congress Pedagogia 96. So for that reason, I say that Cuban life and Cuban people life is very complicate. So, everybody need to understand and live in Cuba to really, really understand.

DW: Can you tell me about the people who raised you. What was their story.

BM: Okay. So my heritage is from Spain, Asturias, España. So, according to my mom, and my grandma and grandpa, I remember that they told me that they, the, so, they come from Spain, close to 19, 19, maybe twenty-something. They emigrate from Spain to Cuba,   because in this time, economic situation in the country 18:00of Spain was very, very, very, bad, and in Cuba, at least, people find job, and I remember that my mom told me that my grand-grandpa with my grandpa was 12 years old, he start to work in Cuba, and he            never finish, he finish only 6th grade, but he was very, my grandpa was very nice worker, and start to work. He has different work, I don't remember, but I very good remember 19:00that one of the last works my grandpa was owner of very ... ehh... big jewelry store, and have farm and he was associate with very high ...ehh .. Cuban mmm, medium-high, ehh, people with the medium-high level in Cuba because he was jewelry store, so my mom can study in university like a teacher, she was 20:00graduate like a teacher, and my grandpa brother was arithmetic teacher in Spain, in Asturias, Oviedo, Spain. So my mom sister was geography teacher, my mom brother was chemistry teacher, so [laughs] I come from the almost everybody was 21:00a teacher, I am sure that my grandpa wasn't a teacher because he emigrate, and this is one part of immigration, sometimes you cant do everything that you want because you focus in the ...ehh... work, to keep your family in very good position, and I think of the history is like a walk around, because in Cuba I start my, started my [ehh] for take my Ph.D. level and I do everything before I 22:00need to defend the doctorate eleven, I immigrate to here. I prefer, take my family, in any grade because if I wait, I defend my doctor in pedagogy eleven, maybe the government after that say "mhm, you need to stay here five years after." I present, I present all document to immigrate so this is... rule in Cuba. If you are a doctor, maybe pedagogy doctor or... regular medical doctor, 23:00if you want to immigrate, you need to stay in Cuba five years. And only after this five year, you can immigrate. And for that reason, I say "mhm bye bye doctor" [laughs] "Ph.D., bye bye" I prefer immigrate. And this is a little bit history about my parents: my dad was very... Cuban. People, he work in the farm, he was a farmer, but he is... no, he is that farmer. So he, has a farm and people and people work for my father (laughs). He was very good... I don't what 24:00to say in English but, he knows everything about how you need to grow, about [pause] agriculture so, but worked very good. My mom was a teacher, my dad was a... I think that this is, he was a farmer but he was a businessman. So I will include in this history, my wife, we are together 30 years. She is a teacher 25:00[laughs] in Cuba, and here she work at young Elementary school so, and one more detail is my middle daughter,   finished UofL. She's a Spanish teacher. Now she works at Ballard High School. So, I think that we can go to the next [laughs] question.

DW: How did you and your family come to Louisville? And I ask you that because the United States is a pretty big country. A lot of Cubans immigrate to Miami, some in New York, so why Louisville?

BM: Ok, so this is very interesting question. For example, when I win the 26:00lottery, in this time, I.. I have the opportunity to, went to a national library in Cuba, I had special permission to use computer in this library because, like I moved in the school and for my investigation, books or articles that sometimes was publicated some math or science, newspaper, in Cuba, I have like a 27:00permission to go to national library in Cuba and use internet. Unbelievable, for that you need to have permission. Not everybody have this permission. If when I know that I win the lottery, I won't say, and I say, everybody, my family "don't say nothing yet." This moment, my wife was a teacher, she was Spanish intellectual teacher at middle school. In this time, I was assistant superintendent in my district. Playa, in Havana City. So, I can say nothing yet. 28:00And everything that we do it or did it, to move here, was in secret. Top secret, top secret. But... we do it everything, everything. So... so we did it everything in secret. And when we have all permission to move here, I went to my 29:00job and I said that I need the liberation.. that I don't want to work  anymore like assistant superintendent in my district because I will move to another job. After different meetings and I need to demonstrate "why". If my job is very good, "Why do you need to move... to a different job?" I don't remember how many meeting I had with the... superintendent in my district. "Because I thought I would be better in the other job" So he signed my liberation of this position 30:00and then I went to the minister of education of Cuba to ask that how we move out of the country and minister of education must sign my liberation. Of course, like at... in this moment I was... assistant superintendent because he signed my liberation, I was a simple math and physics teacher. And I received my permission to go of Cuba in one month. Then, I went to the library and I find 31:00what places, in this moment, 1998, immigrant that win the lottery can go. I remember that I can go to.. stay in Miami... to many Cubans, not to much jobs. Everybody speak Spanish, this is not good for the family. Remember that my family is my wife and me and three kids. Two girls and one boy. So [uh-uh] Miami is no good. Chicago was another city. I checking around and "oh too cold! The 32:00wind city? No, too cold." "Cleveland? [Mmm] too cold." "Las Vegas? Oh no, with three kids? Las Vegas [mhmm]" "I don't like.Texas...Texas, specifically Houston." I say "[Mhmm] not bad but this is too hot!" And then, I find Kentucky! "[Wow!] I never... I only... I remember that I only listened this name in some cowboy's book that I read long times ago when I was a little kid. That I want to... [studders] I love read a lot and "Kentucky... Kentucky... Kentucky" and 33:00then I investigate more about this city. I talked to my wife, and she said "Oh wow, it's nice! You can find the four seasons." "[Hmm] nice, the  weather, [contemplates] we like it. Even... I know winter because I went to Russia. Not wife and kids but they say "we can try but if everybody like winter, we'll stay. Other thing that [uuh] not too much Cuban here in that town. So we decide... my wife and me decide, "Okay, we can try... in Kentucky" then we coming here and we 34:00went in Miami, we stay in Miami only one week. Immigration department prepare all document and I say "We want go to Louisville, Kentucky and through Catholic Charities and we coming here in October 22nd 1998. We coming here. This was the first day in Louisville, Kentucky. I remember that one... person with Catholic Charities went the airport here with us. We went to transitory place like a week 35:00and after that we moved to the first apartment and we close to a year... a year and two, three months, in this place before moved to the house. Because I remember back in Cuba everybody say, "Oh in United States house is very complicated, you need to wait... maybe five, ten years!" [Mm-mm] after a year, maybe a year two, three months, like I said. So we move from this rented 36:00apartment to our house. [Banging on table] So, I think that this is in very, very, very fast steps how we decide coming to this..state and I think that... was the best decision my wife and me took because... in 20 years, very soon will be 20 years that we live here, she only has [had] two jobs. The first job, in 37:00the filter... Koch filter company and school. And this is my third job. Two factory first, and schools. So, i say that 20 years, two, three jobs, this is very nice. Even we coming here, and we never ever, speaking nothing about English because my wife speak French, I speak Russian and I'm sure if I practice a month, I speak Russian better than English. Because I learned Russian when I 38:00was teenager. This is very good, this... for that reason, I think that I love working with ESL students because when I went to Russia. To Russia, I was ESL student. I know nothing about the Russian language and I remember that some teacher say, "hey, I know that you don't speak Russian very good but remember one language this is like a reflect. You need first listen. Maybe the first week you understand nothing, but after a week you will fish some words, maybe one, 39:00maybe two. After a            month you start to fish more words, and then you will understand maybe... a sentence. After two months, maybe you understand a little more and more and more. So, for that reason, work with ESL student, student that come in to this city, to this school and don't know nothing about English, this is a challenge. This is very nice because even I work now in this moment with SIFE (Students with interrupted education) students. SIFE students means students that don't have... any educational background. So, for example, I 40:00have a student here, that the last grade that they finished in their country, is fourth grade, fourth grade. Sometimes sixth grade and they are now in ninth grade. So this hole, we need to try to, with this student, jump all this pool without any... knowledge. For that reason, in my class you see too many posters. Why? because I need to try, that students memorize. They don't have time, now, we don't have time to teach like a regular course. No, I need to teach math, I 41:00need to teach English but I need to teach math and English at the same time with student that maybe, the last grade they finished is... they... don't went to the school for the last five years. So, is very complicated but at the same time is very, very, very nice because when this student take the first day a test, and these same test they need to take in the middle of the school year, they can show... the progress! And they feel very good when they show, "Oh my, I remember Mr. Mesa! Look at this, I can't answer this question in the beginning of the 42:00school year and now I can!" and I say, "And see, in three, four, or six more years... Months, when you finish, we need to try to do again the same test. And this is very... for me, this is very nice when they feel, and they excited, super excited when they say, "Oh my gosh! Mr. Mesa, look at this!" So, I think that I do the one more question in this that, why I love teach in this school and I never will move from this school. Because work with ESL, for me, this is 43:00the most... interesting, nice, and motivating job, if you are a teacher. 

DW: Very good, you have education in Cuba, Russia, and currently in the United States.

BM: [Mhmm]

DW: Can you elaborate the differences between education in the three different cultures.

BM: Unbelievable, this is... the most common question... this is the most common question for the Cuban parents. When Cuban parent come in here, "What is the best education? Here or in Cuba?" And after... some years working in the same 44:00place, all time I say, "This is different... this is different education." And different education but, each education, in Cuba, in Russia, and...and here, the... one of the characteristic of students, characteristics of the culture. For example, in Cuba, use... memorization. Memorization and practice, that. For example, in math or physics teacher I remember that memorize too many different kind of exercises. This is the best way to solve any other exercise because you 45:00try to memorize, this is like...[tries to recall word for the game chess in English].

AA: Chess?

BM: Chess! Like Chess. The best... chess player, I think it is when you speak different language, sometimes the brain is like a computer. I don't remember how I can say aljedrez, chess in English and automatically my brain went to Russian, Shakhmaty. Shakhmaty, this is chess and this is aljedrez. Okay, so Cuba use memorization, Russia is more... student need to think more. For 46:00example, here when you need to take a test, the best way to take a test is multiple choice question. Also, open-response questions. Maybe on the test, you can find three, four, five open response, even short responses or... all little responses but this is, in the whole test maybe five, six,            open response but the other twenty or forty is multiple choice question. In Cuba i 47:00never ever listened about multiple choice questions. In Russia... in Russia, the same. In Cuba, in Russia, when student need to take a test, and I talking about test because, remember that test, like a... way that the teacher prove if the student progress or not. For that reason I use this example. In the Russia and in Cuba, the question, you never need to bubble in or check or... nothing. You need to: think, answer, explain, summarize, define, but never check. So for that 48:00reason that education, in these three different countries, is completely different, is completely different. But, when you add Cuban first, after that Russian, and now here, I think, I think that when I teach math or physics because last year, and last last year I teach chemistry and physics in high school. This year only I teach math. But I use element of Cuba, Russia, and from 49:00here and I combine all this like [laughs] like a mix pot and the result is very interesting because... my students learn. My students come in the first day to the school... very nervous, scared, don't know nothing. Sometimes they don't know multiplication tables. And when finish, at least they have vocabulary to understand... the subject... and the next school when they move, or when they 50:00move to the other grade or to the next school. For that reason I say that this is... is different... system of education but these three country you have... very good things, and other that is not very good, but if you know... the bad thing, you say, "I don't need use this part, I use this than that one, because this is the best so and I can decide with my student how... I can teach. Sometimes my test is not multiple choice, my test, student need to describe with 51:00very easy words. For example, on the poster over there is vocabulary words. So, student need to read and use this word when they talk to me, when they want to explain me something. I say, "I don't care if you don't say me in very good English, I don't care. Don't worry about it. You check the vocabulary word and try to say me, how you solve any equation. For example, use vocabulary word and use this word, if in one moment you can... you don't remember, how connect two 52:00words to sentence, say it in Spanish. Say it in Spanish! But, you will see that in two, three months, you seen everyday this vocabulary word and connection and.. and... So, you see, you will maybe, not perfect, but...and maybe not very fluent but in one, two, three, four months, I can understand when you explain me something. In two, three more years, well you can tell, maybe you will speak English better than me because you are young." 

DW: Very good. [Um] What do you believe the ESL Program will be like in 20 years 53:00from now. Do you think they'll be different? Do you think they'll be the same? 

BM: The ESL Programs? 

DW: Yes.

BM: [Pause] [Uh] ESL Program long times ago, for example, in 2001, 2002, 2003, I am sure that was easier. What happened? according to the statistics... statistics, I remember in first school, first year, I worked with twenty, 54:00thirty, forty ESL students from Cuba... Hispanics and other languages. When I start to work here, at ESL Newcomers Academy... in 2007, I start to work here not like a teacher, I start to work here like a... I don't know, sometimes I say that I was the "behavior coach," attendance clerk... so, I support the principal in the office. That time, we begin the school year with... ninety, ninety-five 55:00students, and finished school year with 2000... 2007... 2021, but, now, in this moment... we have three different from ESL Newcomers Academy. One here in Shawnee, another place in Gheens (Academy) and another in Pheonix. So, we have three different places. Here is only highschool students from ninth and tenth grade and Pheonix and Gheens is middle school sixth, seventh, eighth. But we have, in this moment, 800 something students, this school year, here, we begin 56:00the school year... if I add the students in these three different places we start to four hundred thousand and long times... Maybe not long times ago, maybe five years ago, we finish school year with 2000 something maybe 3000 thousand, now we begin school year with more than 450 students. So, it's one important information. Here, in 2007, when I start here, we have, for example, the 57:00principal, in the office, I work with the principal and fourteen teachers, fourteen! Now, here, only here, I don't will count Gheens, I will not count Pheonix. Here, we have forty-three teachers, forty-three teachers and two... three counselors, this is one... counselor, one... is not doctor... is health  counselor for student that have problem, remember that immigration and... immigration is very... have too many things and everybody can't assimilate 58:00immigration the same form and we have student that was... ladies that was... you know, too many...health  problems. Another counselor, in the office we have secretary, assistant principal, principal, a attendance clerk. So, now is huge, huge! I think that, in total, now, we are close to eighty people from staff, from all the three places with the... counselors and everybody, close to eighty. And, I remember in  2007 we are only sixteen people. So, the growth was very, 59:00very, very, very fast. So, for that reason, definitely ESL Programs in these twenty years they are different. And, so, school district... school district for other hand, add new ways to teach ESL students better. So, they organize PD, they organize courses for teachers to-to grow up the skills, learning skills. 60:00So, it changed, it's completely different. And now it's better, much better. 

DW: Alright, very good, Mr. Mesa. Well, that's all the time we have for questions. You answered everything amazingly and we greatly appreciate you for meeting with us today and allowing us the opportunity to hear your... your amazing story. Absolutely incredible.    We are... we are in a current class... Latin American studies, Latino Studies at the University of Louisville with professor... Dr. Katherine Massoth and I believe she will look forward to hearing this story. And that's all we have... again I'm David Womack, we have Angel Acosta, and Jocelyn Garcia here with us today that did interview Señor 61:00Braulio Mesa. Thank you, Sir.

BM: Thank you, I need to say something more for example, thank you for this opportunity to, talk about my history and sorry if I did a mistake in English, I am not fluent yet, but I am sure that [laughs] that very, very soon, I say very soon I am ESL teacher, so every day, I try to grow up my teaching skills and thank you, you for giving this opportunity to explain and talk about my history. Thank you.

DW: Pleasure. Thank you.