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Emma Turner: Ok, so did it notify you that it started?

Jamila Kareem: It did not. Yep, there it is. (laughter)

ET: All right. So, I just have this series of questions here that I hope that will kind of create a kind of generative conversation that will lead us from there. You know we'll just go with the flow. So, first, when did you work at the University Writing Center, and were an MA or PhD during those times?

JK: Uh, so I was a PhD student. When did I work there? I probably should have thought about this. (laughter) Well, I know it was definitely in, well okay, so I started at UofL in 2013. I think it was 2014, 2015, and then I was director of 1:00the Virtual Writing Center over the summer, I believe, of 2015. Um, and then I think that I also was there in 2015 and 2016, so I definitely started in 2014, and then I think I was there for at least a year and a half. Yeah.

ET: Okay. Okay, yeah. I totally understand. The years start to blend together.

JK: Yeah.

ET: Okay, well that gives me like a good idea. Um. So, you said that you were a PhD student and at some point you were director of the Virtual Writing Center. Um. So, with that position like what kind of responsibilities did that entail, and were there any other positions that you held while you were here with the 2:00Writing Center?

JK: Um, so the position entailed working with all of the online courses directly and working with the, I don't remember what it's called there, but like the online class distribution office, the department that handles that, and doing like a lot of workshops for them to understand more like how does/can the Writing Center serve the professors teaching those courses (The Delphi Center). It also involved doing most of the online tutoring whether that was through live tutoring or live consultation or through email consultations which I don't know 3:00if you guys still do those, but I did that with everything from, I don't know, like lower-level sort of gen ed classes all the way to advanced nursing courses and the writings they had to do in there. And then like I said, also working with other teacher who were teaching online to help them better embed and make the Writing Center, the Virtual Writing Center a natural part of their courses so that students could just like, "OK, I need help with this project," and go into that Blackboard or Canvas course or whatever and like it was to make it more of just a natural part than something that was like, "Oh, yeah. Go to the Writing Center." So I really like worked with people to just make it more fluid and make it sort of embedded within their curriculum of their courses and things like that.

ET: Yeah, so one question that I have based off what you just said, when you say 4:00live tutoring or email, so did you all use WC Online for the live tutoring or what exactly was your-- database is not the right word but like what--

JK: Platform?

ET: Yeah! What platform did you use?

JK: Yeah, so it was WC Online and so I guess I can't remember like, I remember how it works, but I can't remember like what the link was or whatever, but it had like when you went in and made an appointment you could choose. I there was like a box or something you could choose like upload and receive feedback or attend live session or something like that. When I went in there was like a link so if the person I would just click on the client's name and it would take me like to some platform, some, uh, room--what's the word I'm looking 5:00for--extension of WC online. If I'm not wrong, yeah.

ET: Yeah, that seems like what we have now. I just didn't know if it had changed, but really that's not been that long, like it hasn't been that long since that time, so it makes sense that it would be pretty much be the same.

JK: Yeah, I know where I work now. We use TutorTrack. Um, I don't work in the Writing Center, but I've just heard like the Center Director and people talk about it. And yeah, I think they use TutorTrack, which I think is maybe more common. I haven't really seen anybody use WC Online, but I actually prefer WC Online.

ET: With the email tutoring, was that just like sending a draft back and forth?

JK: Basically, they would upload it. I would download it, of course, and then I would do track changes or if it was like a Google Doc I would just do the comments, and, um, so yeah, then I would reupload it too. So, like with that 6:00one, it was like a 48 hour turn around. Like we had to have it back within 48 hours. So, 48 hours of business days. Obviously, so like if they submitted something today [Friday], I would have to get it back to them by Tuesday basically. I mean I would just upload the commented file back onto the WC Online little form thingy.

ET: Okay, yeah that gives me a good of like what it was like. We do something very similar now with Written Feedback, which is actually done through WC Online so just a little bit of evolution there, I guess. Um. So, do you remember any of the other tutors that were there when you were there? And, uh, were you all called tutors at the time?


JK: Uh, if I am not mistaken, I do remember. I do remember like one other tutor. (laughter) And that's not to say that there were not others, but there are just other people I am remembering that I can't remember if I knew them from like working in the Writing Center with them or like being in class with them. But I do remember one other tutor specifically for some reason. His face is in my head. I'm guessing that we probably worked there like the longest amount of time together but, um. Sorry, your other question was?

ET: Um, were you called tutors?

JK: Oh, I'm sorry, no. I think we were called consultants.

ET: Yeah.

JK: Writing Center Consultants. Yeah, 'cause I still use that term when I'm talking about other schools, but other schools call them associate tutors. Yeah, so yeah, but I always use the term consultant whenever I talk about a Writing Center so that's kind of like that lexicon has been embedded in me. (laughter)


ET: (laughter) Yeah, I completely understand. Um, if you had to guess, how many other tutors about the same time you were there?

JK: Um, that's a good question. Um, sorry I didn't (laughter). That's a great question, you're like, "I know, I thought of it." (laughter) Um, how many other tutors? I think that there was like 14 or 15 including myself if I'm not mistaken because I know that like-- I know like we, because our schedules were so spread out, and I think that we were only allowed to do like 10 hours a week or something like that, 10 or 12, I can't remember. Uh, yeah. So, most of us only did like two five hour days or, I don't know, like three three hour days or 9:00maybe one day was four hours or something like that. But, um, I'm pretty sure there was definitely not more than 15. There might have been 10, but really to me, I'm pretty sure it was 12-15 people total.

ET: Would you say that the majority of those were probably MA students?

JK: Oh yeah, for sure. The PhD, I think there was only like one or two PhD students who were, who could, work in the Writing Center because it was new. Before they didn't even have PhD students, but I think it was to give us like more experience just because the field, our duties in the field would be changing. So, I guess like in the old days, like in the older days, that it was really more like for PhD students to focus on teaching writing and teaching comp and teaching advanced composition and things like that and so then it moved to like, well, a lot more people need practice with being administrators and doing Writing Center work and doing all these other--teaching literature--even though 10:00they're writing teachers. So, I think that was apart of that move to sort of like evolve with the job market, so giving us experience in the Writing Center, but it was very limited. I think there was only me and one other person like during the semester I was there. Then I think they took on two other PhD students the next semester when we left, so yeah it was majority MA students for sure.

ET: Okay, and so you came in with MA then cause you were a PhD student. Was there a specific place you learned or acquired your training to be a Writing tutor or consultant, or was it something you picked up while you were at UofL?

JK: Oh my gosh, I am trying to remember. I mean, I know that I picked it up while I was at UofL. I can't remember if I-- I know there was training, um. I 11:00don't remember. Isn't there a course that you guys have to take?

ET: Yeah, there is.

JK: I don't remember taking that course and I think that the PhD tutors are not required to take that course. I could be wrong so do not quote me--obviously quote me--but it just doesn't stand out with me. I do remember that there was training, a lot of reading, there was like a week or two week like sort of in person training. Just like specifically how specifically the Writing Center and their approach to tutoring and we did practice session with each other. We did practice sessions with each other, me and the other tutors. But I think that most of my experience they took it from, because I had been teaching prior to 12:00that, teaching mostly composition like one and two or 101 and 102, so I think that like a lot of that was just like taking from the feedback that I had done. I had, like you know, done from teaching then sort of applying some of the, transferring some of those skills to the Writing Center job, but I didn't really have any formal training.

ET: Okay. Alright, I know that you just mentioned the class. Is there anything else that you can tell me about the structure of the program of the time of the Writing Center?

JK: The structure? I mean some things that I remember were that like, for 13:00example, we had 50 minute appointments so that we had like 10 minutes in between if we had back to back appointments. Um, that, I don't think Robin works there anymore, but we had this wonderful front desk assistant, which is probably not her title, but her name was Robin, and she handled all of the scheduling and all of the sort of like frontline of like any questions or complaints or anything like that. Um, and then when she wasn't there there were student works, undergraduate student workers who did that job. Um, we had like people, it was structured so that people could make appointments online, obviously, or if you didn't get to that point, or if you didn't know you could do that, we had laptops set up at the front of the Writing Center so that they could just come 14:00and schedule and appointment that way. Um? Yeah. I don't know anything else. Bronwyn Williams was the director. I'm guessing he's still the director of the Writing Center. (laughter)

ET: Yeah. (laughter)

JK: Is there an Assistant Director?

ET: Yeah. Cassandra Book. Cassie Book.

JK. Cassie. Yeah. I couldn't, okay, in my mind I said Robin and I knew that wasn't her name. (laughter) Great, Cassie is still there. That's awesome. Um, when I was there it was Bronwyn and then Adam. I don't remember his last name. I want to say Adam Scott but that's not, but that's not it, that's an actor. (laughter) Adam (Robinson) something was, uh, 'cause I think he's married now to a woman who was in the PhD program and graduated like two years before me but, he was the assistant director or associate director, and he actually had his 15:00master's degree as well and they moved to California. But yeah. So, it was Bronwyn and Adam. Adam left and Cassie came in, and then yeah. I mean that was basically the structure, and then we would have meetings. When we would have meetings, we would talk about like any issues that came up during the week. I think.

ET: So, like staff meetings?

JK: Yeah. But again, I could be mixing that up with like having staff meetings for something else at UofL because I was also assistant director of composition, but I'm pretty sure that there was like a venue for like, it may not have been weekly or biweekly, but it was definitely a venue for talking through things formally rather than just sharing information in the back office. Oh, and then 16:00of course I don't know if you guys still do this, like even if you don't even have appointments that day scheduled, you come in for your allotted time in case there are walk-ins or in case someone is sick or something like that and you need to cover their appointments.

ET: Yeah, we're kind of doing that with the pandemic, but, um, everything is just virtual. Kind of the same, but yeah. So, this kind of leads me to another question I had. So, like the physical space of the Writing Center, where was it located and what did it look like at the time?

JK: Oh, uh, okay. I will try hard. (laughter)

ET: I'm so sorry. (laughter)

JK: Okay, so originally it was in-- Uh what is the building? The building where 17:00the English department is. The humanities building?

ET: Yeah, the humanities building, I think.

JK: (laughter) So, it was in there originally. Um, but it moved to the library to the first floor of the library when they did the remodel. Um, I'm guessing that's where it is still?

ET: Yes. Uh-huh.

JK: Ok, so. I don't think that I worked at it when it was in the library. I did the dissertation writing retreat. But I don't think that I worked. I think that I only worked at it.. No, no, no. Wait. I'm lying. I'm so sorry.

ET: (laughter)

JK: Ok, no. It was in the upper floor of the library. That's what it was. So, it 18:00was like in the third or fourth floor of the library and maybe even the second, and then that one was demolished, that area was demolished and was turned into like a tech lab or something, I don't know, and then it [the Writing Center] got moved to the first floor of the library after during the remodel. Right, cause after the remodel took like really long. (laughter) I guess I put it out of my mind because it was like so annoying. But yeah, it used to be on the upper floors of the library and it was very, um-- Ok, I'm trying to think of a nice way, well not a nice way, but just like a-- I don't know. It was as clean as they could get it with it in such an old space, I guess. Like there was a couch, I remember, that I'm sure they threw it out unless they kept it in like a museum 19:00somewhere, but it was just like nobody wanted to sit on it. It was like it didn't look like it didn't have any spots on it or anything, but it just seemed like it would feel gross if you sat on it. Um, so, I remember that being in the back where like the tutors were. So, there was like a door that separated the tutors from the clients and everything. Um. And I mean it was just like a huge room with, uh, like circular tables set up like all over the room. So, there wasn't like a lot of privacy for like the client. Um. But. And then there were like these longer tables too for like group projects I think 'cause I remember 20:00some people wanted to do one on one stuff at the longer tables and if there were no groups then we were fine with it. But yeah, it was just like a big space. I think that there were a couple of private rooms, um, for clients who specifically requested that, but overall, or like we would use Adam's office or something like that if he wanted us or if he wasn't busy with his own clients. Yeah, it was just like a big area and then just tables spread out and then a group work area and then like a separate section. I think Bronwyn's, if I'm not mistaken, Bronwyn's office was in the back. Adam's obviously was near, up towards the front like where the front desk was where people could come in, walk-ins could come in. I think that was situated that way because the associate 21:00director does a lot more of the front end, day-to-day operations type stuff or like the conflict resolution types of things, and then Bronwyn was sort of there to basically make sure everything ran smoothly. Yeah, so. But then we moved to the library. I know it has the more private rooms and it does still have the big area, but I think it had more private spaces particularly for like people to use computers and things like that. Yeah, but when I was in it, it was, uh, older, let's say.

ET: Cozy.

JK: Older and less private, but I think that people actually did--complain isn't the right word--have concerns about it. Some of the clients, and so I think that 22:00was a big deal when they moved to the first floor to have those areas for more private tutoring sessions if that was needed.

ET: Yeah, I think that's awesome that you remember that. (laughter)

JK: Yeah, give me a second 'cause like I said I don't work at the Writing Center here but like, he's moved now, but one of my best friends was the director, so I've been in and out of it. So it's all blending together. But yes, I do remember going to the library and taking the elevator or going up at least two flights of stairs to get to work. And then I do remember being annoyed when we found out that it's going to be like a brand spanking new awesome Writing Center, and for those of us that had matriculated out of the job we were like, "that's not fair." (laughter)

ET: It's too little, too late. (laughter)

JK: Yeah, exactly. (laughter) No, but I'm really happy that they, that Bronwyn 23:00got more of what he needed to do, you, the student and the clients justice.

ET: Yeah, absolutely. So, I know we mentioned like briefly WCOnline--well not briefly, we talked about it for a few minutes--WCOnline and you mentioned computer for just a minute, so what technology was available and used in the Writing Center when you were there and how was it used?

JK: We just used WCOnline really. Um. Besides your basic, you know, technologies. Pens, and pencils, and paper. But yeah, we just used WC online and we used it to find out what appointments had been assigned. So, we used the schedule. This is like weird because it's all coming back to me. It's like stuff 24:00I had forgotten about. Like the schedule had the times colored in for when we are tutoring in or consulting and you would click on it and it would tell you the clients name, the course if they put that information in there and like the assignment, and they could upload the assignment prompt and they could also upload their draft, although I will say that most of us never looked at the draft before we met with a client because we are students, and-- you know. You know. You're there now. (laughter)

ET: Yeah. Yeah.

JK: Most clients did not do that. The only time they I would make the point to look at the draft before I met with the client is if we had repeat sessions, so if it was like the third session and we were working on something together and 25:00they had added pages or they had made revisions. Like if their appointment was at 11:00 am, I might go in at like, I don't know, if I was there, 9:30 or 9 or something and take a look at it just to get a good idea like the kind of revision that they made so that we could sort of start our session with that. But it also was used to make comments so that the next tutor who worked with that person could, if they did work with a different tutor, they didn't work with you again, they could see what did you work on when you met with the client and then, um, we also used it so it would send a message to the client to say like this is essentially more like if they needed it to get credit for a class. It said like, "Ok, Jamila Kareem and I worked on my tenses and like on 26:00reorganizing my paper," or something like that, or "reorganizing my ideas so that they flow." So, it would automatically send an email so they could have it and it could go to their professor whatever they need it for. So, really it was just WCOnline to keep track of our schedule and to keep updated on what we worked on with the clients and then to email like the progress of what they did and then obviously the technology for doing the live sessions of the Virtual Writing Center that I had to do.

ET: Okay, and then with WCOnline how did students sign up for appointments? Were 27:00they able to do that online or did they have to come into the Writing Center to do that? And how common were walk-ins?

JK: Yeah, so we encouraged them to go online and do it, but they could come in and do it. Even when they came in, there was still, like I know that when they came in and wanted to make an appointment, I know that when we weren't busy and there was no one there and it was just Robin or the student worker at the front desk then they would just go ahead and schedule for the student, but more often than not, if there would be three walk-ins at once, they would just direct them to the laptops that were at the front of the Writing Center to schedule. Basically, you would do what you would do at home online, but you would just do it at the Writing Center. (laughter) So, yeah.

ET: With supervision.


JK: Yeah, exactly. Then we would say next time you can just go ahead and schedule this from your own phone or computer. But walk-ins were, I mean, they were actually pretty common at the time. Yeah. Walk-ins were very common. I don't know if it was the majority of the clients, but they were very, very common.

ET: Okay, and then I know that we talked about at the beginning of the interview, so you said that you worked with from lower-level students to advanced students, and you even worked with other teachers who were teaching online courses. Was there a specific population of students that you particularly liked working with, and was there anything particularly rewarding or that you found to be a challenge?


JK: That's a really great question. The first one that came to mind when you said that was the-- I really liked working with the nursing students, the ones that a lot of times they had already been working and they were returning to school, and they were returning to school to get their nursing degrees. So, they were really interested in, and a lot of them would start a session by saying, "I haven't written a paper in like 20 years, so this is the first one I've written," and they would think that their writing was like really horrible. I would say that the most rewarding thing in all sessions and all people I worked with was calming them down and letting them know that their writing, that 30:00they're not bad writers, and that look or sound or feeling of relief they had just from someone they perceived as being a writing professional telling them that they are not a terrible writer. I think it means a lot to people to hear that and that sort of helps. I think that does help them start to rewrite their own self narrative about who they are as writers. So, I think that was probably one of the most rewarding things. And then also having them coming back and seeing a project improve or just seeing them rethink it, even going from a basic 31:00writer used to your typical 5 paragraph structure to being able to present the ideas in a more advanced and complex way and knowing that comes from your feedback or your work with them. So, I would say that those are probably the most rewarding. I would definitely say that the nursing students, and I did work with a lot of the philosophy students as well like in the upper division philosophy courses and those were fun too because I learned a lot about 32:00different topics. Like I remember someone writing about like the philosophy, the history of the philosophy of policing and this was like around the time when--it was after Trayvon Martin was killed--I think it was around when Michael Brown had been shot by the police so there was a lot of and there still is, but at that time there was a lot of talk about the work of policing and things like that. So, it was cool to get like a sort of philosophical perspective, and then with the Nursing it was cool to see some of the issues nurses have to think about and problem solve and the things they have to write about that I would never have been exposed to had I not been a Writing Center tutor. I probably wouldn't have had the opportunity to get these different perspectives.


ET: I think that you just like beautifully articulated so many different points which I hope doesn't bleed into this next question too much that you have to repeat yourself, so I'm sorry if you do. So, my next question is more or less, are there certain strategies or ideas that you took in tutoring or consulting that you use in teaching today? Or was there something that you learned during your time at the University Writing Center that you use in your scholarship now as a professional?

JK: Uh, yeah. I would say that just like some basic stuff that I use in my teaching, especially because I'm teaching more online classes now and then even before, so many students read and respond to your feedback on their work rather 34:00than like anything you say in class. Like, they'll tune you out in class, but if you write like something to improve or something to reconsider on their work they'll pay attention to it. So, the process of having like the global comments or sort of letter at the beginning of the document saying like "hey--" you know. I tend to, even though I'm a teacher or a professor and you know their required to submit the work, I still thank students for submitting the work. I'll write, "Well thank you for submitting this draft. I enjoyed reading it." So, just 35:00little things like that that I don't think I did before I worked in the Writing Center. So, like, "Thanks for submitting this. I enjoyed reading it. You know, I think that you do really well on these things-- Generally speaking, I think you could improve on whatever it is, but take a look at my specific feedback and the margins to you know get more of an idea of what I mean by this. If you have any questions let me know." So, like things like that, like I definitely would say like something on my paper, on my student's papers before I worked in the Writing Center in terms of global feedback but it wasn't as appreciative of the labor that goes into writing, and that's something that I became more, I recognized more from working in the Writing Center. It's not like I didn't know it was laborious before, but it was just something that I'm like okay. Especially if it's a good student paper, right? Because, you know a lot of times it's like we're like, "Oh, well this paper is good they must be naturally good at writing," or "it must come to them more easily or in a less difficult way 36:00then some other people." And a lot of times that's not the case. It did take a lot of work for them to get it to that level, so just that little, small note of I've noticed of saying, "thank you," or you know, "I was really happy to read this," because a lot of times I think they think that it's such like a job for us like it's not something we enjoy. It is like, yeah, there's a little bit of that sometimes, but most of the time it is something we're like, "do you know how many people don't submit work? So, thank you for actually doing this and taking the time." So, just stuff like that I got from the Writing Center and then as well as, um, like just the ways of having one-on-one conversations with my students about their writing. I mean I had practice in it before. In fact, I 37:00mean had experience with it, but I definitely think my Writing Center experience helped me not only have one-on-one conversations about the current document that we were talking about but like connecting it to, um, their interest or like opening up conversation so it's like if you're interested in that, or it that's something that you're used to doing here's how you can sort of transfer that interest or that skill to this, and I think that I didn't do that as much prior to working in the Writing Center because you're working with people with so many different backgrounds and discipline area backgrounds that you learn to say, "ok, well yes, you're a civil engineer and you have to write this report, but 38:00here's a thing from, here's why engineers write this why." It allowed me; it gave me experience to be able to talk to people about writing and different ways that were not exactly about rhetoric and discourse.

ET: Yeah, that makes complete sense. And looping back to what you said at the beginning, it's like the smallest encouragements can make like the biggest difference to students which is just amazing like when you watch student grow, writers grow. It's amazing. It's amazing. So, really, I only have like one or two more questions. Thank you for your patience. Like you've been awesome. So, 39:00what other work did you do for the University Writing Center? Did you do any class presentations, workshops? Did you make like any handouts or anything?

JK: I forgot about that. Yes. (laughter) So again, you're like reminding of things so it's like going back in time. I did do workshops. Primarily, I did two workshops. One was to the chemistry department. It was their doctoral or master, it was their graduate level chemistry class--chemical engineering I want to say, and it was basically just like helping them because they were working on a project where they had to come up with an experiment to show to people. It was 40:00like stakeholders outside of the University. It was like a mock Sharktank kind of situation where they had to come up with an experiment and a product and then like from the community like one or two business owners who obviously came from like chemical and engineering companies I guess, and then they would be like okay. So, they had to 1). Write a proposal and talk about the experiment. So, I did a workshop on how do you, what's the difference between active and passive voice, and how do you lead from one sentence to another. Like, what's the best way to do that and keep your audience engaged. So, we did, I did a workshop on that. I think it was just called like a STEM writing workshop or something like that, and then I had to actually work with the professor of that course so we 41:00would exchange emails back and forth so I would know exactly what she wanted me to cover. So, she would share with me general ideas and then she had like specific things for each one of the different classes depending on like where their areas of improvement were. Then I also did a workshop for scholarship writing for the Office of Admissions or Orientation Office or whatever that's called there. They wanted me to talk to like incoming or prospective students and their parents about sort of writing for scholarship questions or like scholarship applications and how to narrate your personal story, how to focus on a very specific example and really bring out the details of that and relate that 42:00to the scholarship application. I think that I did an APA and MLA workshop at some point, but I don't remember that. I know that I at least contributed to the like Powerpoint or handouts for the APA MLA workshop, if I did not actually go in and present it. I can't remember doing that. But I didn't do any of the like, "here is what the writing center is," for like the 101 and 102 courses, but I did again do that for the with the online courses or distributed courses or whatever it is. I did do those workshops. At the beginning of the fall semester, 43:00so at the end of the summer, they brought together all of the faculty that taught online and brought them all together to do to sort of take like a two-day long training on different topics, and I was one of the session that they had to attend like sometimes during lunch which was cool in a way for them but not for me because I was hungry. But, yeah. We would do that. I would present to them during lunch, sort of show them a video of like how a tutoring session looks, and then I also had a Powerpoint talking to them about here's how this could be beneficial for your courses and here's what we do and don't do. You know, we're not a fix it shop and things like that. We work with your students at a more global level of helping them improve as writers, not just for this one writing 44:00assignment and things like that, so that and then answering their questions. So yeah, those are really the workshops I did, scholarship writing, the online faculty, and then the STEM writing workshop, yeah.

ET: Is there anything else you remember that's important that I haven't asked you about?

JK: So, I'm trying to think. Half of the stuff you've asked me I completely forgot about, um. (laughter) I will say that one of things that was, uh, helpful--because you had asked me about if I had formal training and I said that I didn't because I did not--I did work with or not with but Bronwyn did make 45:00like a lot of recommendations of books I could read if I wanted to know more about particular approaches or if I just wanted to like, I don't know. I'm a researcher so I'm always wanting to know more about things. I know that Cassie and I, we never got around to it 'cause that's how things go when you research. We had talked about writing an article or at least researching on, um, the engagement with the consulting sessions between the difference the people who uploaded the sort of documents like the email feedback versus the live WC Online tutoring sessions. So, we wanted to really look at, and I think that, I wish I remembered. I believe what I found just from my own experience was that I think 46:00that I found that the email sessions were more productive in terms of like seeing creating a relationship with the client, and I think that's why we wanted to work on that research because a lot of assumptions were that it would be the other way around, that having a live session would help you make more of a connection. But from what I did during my time there, particularly as the Virtual Writing Center Director, I found that because of the extensiveness of the feedback in the email session that the clients, um, engaged with it more, 47:00made repeat appointments more than they did with the live one-on-one sessions.

ET: Yeah, that's really interesting. That would be amazing to research because I think you would have a lot of information to honestly back that up. That would be so amazing.

JK: Yeah. It's one of the things that like I will think about when someone mentions Writing Center research but I didn't, and like we don't have any time for that now. (laughter) But yeah, that's most of what I remember, um, and I just remember, I know you already asked me about my favorite clients to work with. I know I mentioned the sort of STEM or nursing thing like that philosophy 48:00also, but I also worked with a lot of creative writers. So, that was like 3 or 4 repeat ones, but it was a lot of repeat appointments. But to me I guess that's a lot of appointments. I have a creative writing background originally. When I was an undergrad, I was an English major and I was a creative writing track major and I published in small little places and things like that. So, I love working with creative writers even when I teach now. Even when I teach like master's classes now, grad classes, if someone says, "okay, I'm coming to rhetoric and composition from a creative writing background." I'm like, "yes, let's talk." (laughter) So, I do remember like specifically hoping to get those appointments when I worked in the Writing Center as well. And then also I will say that for the most part, um, not to sound so cliché, a lot of it, even though I don't 49:00really talk to many of the other tutors any more just because I don't know what they're doing, at the time it really felt almost like, I don't know if I would call it a family, but definitely a close-knit unit. I didn't really feel like there was any, um, animosity at all which can happen when you work that closely with people in such a small space. But you know, I think they did a good job of creating an environment of just where we felt comfortable being around each other but also bringing up concerns to each other about the clients we were working with. Like I know there were times when, for example--I'm thinking off the top of my head--if a client might say something racist or sexist or even like ableist would come up in their writing and we would feel comfortable asking each other, before we went to Bronwyn, Adam, or Cassie, just asking each other, 50:00"how do I approach this," "how would you deal with this because this client wants to work with me again and I'd honestly rather not work with them again" (laughter) or something like that or like, you know, whatever the case may be. So, it was just a really comfortable, I really enjoyed, uh, working there, and I will say that I was-- I knew that I needed the experience, more experience in teaching as I went on the job market. I was a little-- I was pretty saddened when I could no longer be in the Writing Center honestly. It was a great experience.

ET: That's wonderful, and if you think that's a great place to stop, I think 51:00that's a wonderful like sentiment to end it on.

JK: Yeah, I do too.

ET: Well, thank you for like taking the time to meet with me and for just being so kind and wonderful. I think that this was just like a great way to go through this. You've been awesome.

JK: Oh, I'm so happy to help. If you think of any follow up questions, feel free to email me and I'll be happy to respond.

ET: Thank you so much! Thanks for just being great, and I hope that your semester treats you well. Hang in there.

JK: Thank you. You too. Alright, have a good weekend.

ET: You too. Bye.

JK: Bye.