Interview with Alicia Brazeau, January 26, 2021

Demetrius Minnick-Tucker: Hello, again thank you for joining me Dr. Brazeau. Dr. Brazeau is the Writing Center Director at the College of Wooster. And so, Dr. Alicia, I am eager to hear of your experiences in the past at UofL when you were a Writing Center consultant as this will help us better understand UofL's Writing Center!

Alicia Brazeau: You're welcome! Happy to help!

DM: When did you work at the Writing Center?

AB: I should have been prepared for this so I can remember the dates. I don't remember the dates! [Laughs] It would have been around 2005? So, I started about 1:002005-2006 and then I returned and worked as an Assistant Director when I was a PhD student.

DM: Ok great! So, are you saying right after you got done with the MA, you immediately went into the PhD program?

Alicia: I had one gap year and then I went into the PhD program. 

DM: What did you do with that one gap year?

Dr.Brazeau: The truth was when I was a Master's student at UofL initially, I thought that was I still to go on to a PhD in literature instead of continuing on to rhetoric and composition. Despite the fact that I loved writing centers, I was looking at it as way of keeping both of those things together. The gap year was figuring out that I actually want to stay in rhetoric and composition because I wanted to continue teaching writing, maybe keeping writing centers as a part of something I want to do. So, I actually stayed in Louisville and taught composition for a year. I had a full load of classes and then applied to the PhD program and started in again. 

DM: So, did you teach at one of the local public High schools?

AB: I taught at the University of Louisville. I taught the Composition 101 and 102 classes there. I was a temporary adjunct: It was great!

DM: Then you went right on board to the PhD. I think that's a great segway. So then, for your PhD, you have that gap year to get the clarification of direction for if you want to go towards literature or rhetoric/composition, and rhetoric/composition seems to be the direction you wanted to go on. How do you feel that shaped your direction for where you're at now?

AB: I think it was me figuring out what I wanted to do. I love literature, so I believe that was what was pulling me in the direction of literature, because I am big time reader. Working with writers was what I really wanted to do with my professional career, so it wasn't the literary degree, but the rhetoric and composition degree that was going to allow me the freedom to do that. This maybe has little to do with writing centers, buts its also true. What I love about rhetoric/composition is that perhaps to a greater degree than other academic 4:00disciplines, scholars move about and can explore different areas, maybe even getting involved in writing centers for a while, then doing some stuff with rhetoric, or teaching a class. So, I liked the diversity of it.

DM: I know on my end I am someone really interested in literature and for rhetoric/composition I just don't want to go in that direction. Yet, I can definitely say even from my experiences in the Writing Center, its been a joy to be able to help students progress in their writing. You can't beat that!

DM: My next  question would be, what was the structure of the Writing Center at the time? Since you did your MA and PhD at UofL, you were kind of there for your whole education experience for your graduate degree?

AB: So, when I came into UofL as a master's student, the Writing Center was directed by Carol Mattingly at that point. I think the structure is similar to what it is now in that it was staffed primarily or entirely by master's students working part-time, especially in their first year. And as I said, Carol 5:00Mattingly was the director. For me as a graduate student, it was the perfect environment for me to step into at the beginning because I had the mentorship of this scholar that was already in the discipline and running the Writing Center. I had this experience of having worked with writers. You probably have this less now with the pandemic and having to be remote. It was great to also be working and studying together with other graduate students who were also kind of finding 6:00their legs as teachers. So, when I came back for my PhD and was one of the Assistant Directors -- I suspect the structure is still similar at the point, we didn't have Bronwyn, but Carol had left -- that was really cool as a sort of upper level graduate student having to learn how to give a level of leadership to the incoming master students within that Writing Center structure.

DM: So, you're saying there was a gap period before Dr. Bronwyn came?

AB: Yes, there was an interim there!

DM:In light of the interviews I've reviewed, that was never brought up. So, that's an interesting experience! How do you think that shaped your leadership 7:00skills as an AD?

AB: One of the things was, as an AD, I partly in charge. At that time, there was four AD's and two of us were in charge of the virtual writing center Which at the time there was a connection between the Delphi center. What was it like in terms of leadership? Part of what defined it for me was this being entirely new for me since this was entirely new for me. Quite frankly, I didn't work virtually at all, so it was a brand new thing. Not only was I trying to lead, I was trying to figure out what a virtual writing center looked like. Which in 8:00hindsight, it was really great preparation. I'm glad I had that; little did I know that was coming down the line later. Of course, there was four of us, so we kind of shared.What I liked most was both learning something new, there was something concrete to learn not just about leadership, but in terms of running a program. In that sense I was glad I was a virtual Writing Center AD's because it gave us freedom to design new things. We designed a new form for the E-tutoring, asynchronous appointments. So, we had the ability to make changes that wouldn't 9:00be possible in the physical Writing Center since that is an established practice. So, that was nice, it was nice to be able to implement even small changes and be a leader that way. Yet really it was finding my legs by talking with and getting to know the master consultants. Partly, It was a lesson in realizing in what I had learned back when I was a masters student and hadn't realized until I started talking to all of them. Not that they weren't amazing, but just in terms of passing on like you're right I remembered that happened to me, to this is what I discovered.

DM: So, then at that time when you were a MA student, how were y'all trained to 10:00approach appointments when you were with Carol Mattingly? How did she shape how you approach the Writing Center when it comes to consultations? 

AB: In a way for me, the waters had already been muddied because I was a writing center consultant as an undergraduate student Carol was helpful for me in rethinking my practice, but i couldn't tell you what all her advice and style was in terms of setting up a practice because I was coming with a preconceived notion of this is what a session looks like already. However, her particular 11:00style and advice felt very similar to me for what I experienced as an undergraduate which maybe is why I felt it was more the same. What I feel like she really helped me with and something she made us do that really scared me, was to video record our appointments. [Laughs] Watch them, pay attention to what we did, and then watch them with our other MA student partners, and be really honest with one another. I remember and of her philosophy as a Writing Center Director that I've never seen another director do this and I have only done this occasionally:  She would have a Writing Center appointment herself so she can stay in thick of it and still practicing herself as a consultant, so she could 12:00talk to us from a place of still continuing practice, not just directing. So, I think that partly fueled for her "you need to stay honest with yourself" and constantly reevaluating your own practices, even if it so awkward to watch yourself on video camera with another student. What I think I learned from her is this important idea of constantly paying attention to what you're doing and reevaluating that as a continually practice. No matter how long you have been doing it, you can still learn something new about yourself and try new things. She really modeled that herself. I have to say I now implement that at as Writing Center Director. We usually have student's video record their sessions once a semester or once a year. It's super awkward, but you learn some things.

DM: I think that makes a consultant more confident and humble, as your hyper-aware of everything you're doing. My next question: You're the Writing Director at College of Wooster, you've been there since 2012?

AB: Correct, this was my first job right of Louisville. So I came directly here. DM: How has that reality been? From MA to PhD in your past, tell me about your experiences now as Writing Center Director? You're the team captain, you're the one everyone is looking to.

AB: That was scary the first year, but is great in some respects since our Writing Center reflects UofL's Writing Center as a stand alone Writing Center. We don't have to report to the English Department. We exist on our own. A lot of Writing Centers, especially at smaller schools, there tends to be a strong English Affiliation which I think can be a good thing. As someone new coming, especially as someone with rhetoric/composition background, it was nice to have the freedom to define the space for myself. Our Writing Center is a little different, but sort of similar to UofL. For example, in addition to the 15:00Director, we have staff of some professional consultants who function as AD's too. Then, we have undergraduate student consultants. But all the professional staff was brand new as I came in too. So, we didn't quite have an institutional memory which was its own bad thing, but the good thing was we were all new together, so there was totally freedom to create as we wanted. Yet, it was a transition, coming from such a large school to such a small school where everyone knows each other. I was really glad that I had that experience at UofL being the AD and working with the mentors that I had, because it was nice to come in feeling as if I knew what I was doing. I quickly learned when I made mistakes and should've know better. But it was nice to able to define where our 16:00Writing Center was going to go.

DM: Thats helpful! It seems you were able to begin crafting that institutional memory at the College of Wooster. Also, that's a big responsibility to! I commend you for that. So, I'm going to transition the interview towards your research. So, I went to the UofL library, typed in my credentials, and aimed to find Alicia Brazeau's thesis and whatever work she may have done during her time at UofL. So, I came across your 2012 thesis. This is what your 2012 thesis seemed to be talking about: Literacy by subscription and writing instruction in 17:00turn of the century within American periodicals. Your main argument was that  the American periodicals of the late 19th and early 20th century were pivotal artifacts and how those periodicals not only illustrated collection of literary practice and pedagogy, but were also central in expanding understanding of people's engagement with questions of literacy. Further, the popular magazines creating writing identities for the readers/writers. So, that's the your thesis. Then, in 2016 with Southern Illinois University Press, you eventually had a book on that. Tell me about that, woah! Tell me about that.

AB: That was amazing and a scary moment! Going to a press and submitting a book 18:00proposal. Wow, I still remember how that was. They were great to work with! It's funny how much the thesis, when I finished originally, it felt completely done. This is very Writing Center moment since I felt like as a writer, I felt like it was done. However, I discovered that we rewrote so much, in fact, I think the conclusion became the new introduction or a new chapter in the beginning. So they were really great work with, not rejecting what I had but building upon it. I wrote so much. It was a lot of wok, it was a lot of fun, but I'm not sure if I ever want to do a book again. I think more article or editing collection kind of person. 

DM: It takes a lot of work!

AB: It was really exciting too! That was something as a master's and even as a PhD student, that was thing professionally that seemed the hardest to do and I wasn't sure if I would be able to do that. So, it was a proud moment to realize that I am capable of doing this. As I said, it in large part due to amazing editors at Southern Illinois University Press. It's kind of like working with good Writing Center consultant, they can help you reimagine things.

DM: So then, since you originally published it as your thesis before it eventually led to a book, while you were doing your PhD, did you ever envision yourself being published? As an MA student, I'm beginning to realize is that you 20:00want to be published as it gets your name out their other universities. Do you feel like that since you had those tools as a Writing Center consultant that it helped you craft your thesis, and maybe you used the Writing Center to help you with that? So those would be my two questions.

AB: Yes, honestly I did not know when I was initially working on the project. Part of it was tunnel vision, as you look to get the thesis itself done. Actually, Carol Mattingly was my advisor for my dissertation. In fact, we had a writing group who were Carol's advisees, so that was our Writing Center group. 21:00But no, I didn't know! I wondered if I wold break it up in separate articles. I knew that something of this size that I wanted to get it out there somehow, but I didn't know if I was going to do a book or break it up in article. In fact, I did do an article on part of it that I published with College English. So I started out thinking I was going to do articles on this. I had to work myself up to the book.

DM: Ok, so it does seem like there is still a Writing Center connection since 22:00you all had the Writing Center group with Dr. Mattingly. I feel that right now as I work on my culminating project, which is nowhere near a thesis, just to say you do have that tunnel vision. It is a beautiful thing when all the hard work, pain, and tears come together to produce a book. Not a lot of people get to do that. Further, as you were focused on literacy, I continue this connection you have with rhetoric and composition, it is just everywhere. Do you feel like having that rhetoric/composition background that it was determinative in you writing about literacy? You could of wrote about a lot of different topics.

AB: I guess that emerged slowly. As you see in your coursework, there is a lot 23:00of paths you can take in rhetoric and composition. Some people go in that strong, classical, rhetoric route. Obviously, Writing Center scholarship as well. I think part of it is I liked working with archives, so I liked the historical bent of working with literacy which I think drew me to it first. I don't think I ever thought I was going to do anything in hard core rhetoric, I'm more drawn to pedagogy and historical work. So yeah, I started to discover that over time. I love history, I love thinking about literacy, so it kind of emerged 24:00from something I was interested in.

DM: Now, at this point of the interview, we talked about research and background. Now we're going to talk about teaching experience, which should take up the rest of our time in the interview. So I have a couple question in regards to that. So, it seems that you teach two courses at the College of Wooster. My first question is if you are teaching writing classes, how do you feel the Writing Center may influenced how you approach teaching those classes at the College of Wooster.

AB: The class that I am teaching right now is called Writing Pedagogy and Tutoring Methods. It's for students who will either be educators in English, so 25:00students in Education program that are also English majors -- a number have taken it or have to take it -- and students who will work in the Writing Center. Also, it was a change that I created when I entered the College of Wooster system. At the time, they had students who worked as writing consultants, but they didn't require students to take any training course or learn any writing pedagogy or tutoring strategies -- at least not in a formal way.  So that was a change I made is that students who were going to work in the Writing Center had to take the class. I really drew on what I had experience at UofL as I took pedagogy courses and working in the Writing Center. It was really modeled on that. So, for that class I feel like the overlap is pretty obvious: it's all about Writing Centers and teaching writing. It's Writing Center stuff everywhere, in terms of what we do and what we're talking about; it's writing all the time. In terms of teaching writing for first year classes, we also do some studio classes for students in upper-level writing courses. Two of the ways 26:00it had most influenced me is in the comments that I give to students on their essays, both in terms of pointing them to how they can continue to develop something. In Writing Centers, we always try to help writers to see for themselves what's going on in their essay, ask questions, and get them thinking about it. This probably drives my students nuts but in the margins I don't do much in the way of correction, kind of that old Writing Center style of not editing for them. I ask a lot of question and usually put them to work for finding things for themselves. I think in that respect it has influenced the way 27:00I respond or the feedback I give to students. I don't know if that is coming from my work as a Writing Center person or if its also joined with everything I've learned in reading composition theory, but I love drafts and I definitely force my students through multiple drafts and incorporate that process into what were doing always. So, the process we work through with student in the Writing Center, I really embed that in the class and I think good part of that probably comes from being a consultant.

DM: As you're teaching your pedagogy classes, everyone has an end goal for the class. For example, you may want someone to feel with the tools of writing or I 28:00want this person to feel that they can create a draft and not need me at all. What is your end goal with your students?

AB: With first year students, one of my goals with writing and generally, is to get them confident and comfortable with seeking help and resources, as well as committing to that growth mindset that you are always working at a problem while maybe not having it right the first time around is not the goal. Really it's about working through issues. That revision mentality: You are always building 29:00and you're always getting stronger. For me, quite frankly, more than learning any specific writing style or ability to produce any type of thing, buying into that mindset is one of the most important things for me. I always feel like I have succeeded when my first year classes (which are capped at fifteen people) is the number of them who continue to come to the Writing Center in future semesters. So, if I get a handful of them continuing to come to the Writing Center, I feel like I have succeeded there.

DM: I like how you mentioned growth mindset, perhaps that is the way to sum it all up. I took a class with Dr. Ollinger called Graduate Writing in the Discipline, and essentially we kept on writing, writing, writing, until I was 30:00blue in the face. It was intense, but from that experience it showed you have to focus on the process. Do I love the process? I do love the process. It seems like that growth mindset when you're approaching it that way, it seems like that is more fruitful for future things. So, I need to take that for myself!

AB: Trying to get it right the first time is what drives all writers mad! 

[Laughs]

DM: These will be my two last questions and then we will conclude. So, while you 31:00were at the Writing Center, did you have any experiences working in projects in relationship to the community or undergraduates?

AB: Not outside the Writing Center.  I didn't have any additional projects going on. I do know one additional project we did in the Writing Center, which served me later on, was tracking the usage in the Writing Center by using our intake data. We were looking in a loose way at what was bringing students into the Writing Center. It was useful to me because I remember coming in as an undergraduate student that one of my preconceived notions was that it was really 32:00bad for professors or instructors to require their students to visit the Writing Center. It communicated that they were forced to be there, no motivation or had a bad attitude. We see that as consultants all the time as you see students saying "Yeah, I had to come here." So, I think that shaped the way we think about it. What we learned though is that actually didn't hold up in terms of what the student reported in terms of what the students reported often in the ending survey or if they had a good session, even if they were forced by the professor. In fact, some of them had more positive experiences than the ones who simply showed up. So, that shaped a lot of what I do now because we encourage 33:00our professors to go ahead and require students to come to the Writing Center. So, that was a little research thing we had going on. [Transition] However, I did volunteer with the cities elementary schools. They had a program where you could go in and read with elementary students who were really struggling with the reading. It was really story time so that they can have a better feeling towards reading and stories. So, I did that a little while I was there as I met up with student on a weekly basis for a couple years. That was really fun! It was like the reading version of the Writing Center. You work one-on-one with one student and you just have a good time with stories and writing.

DM: I know even for me I've been trying to get involved in the Portland Promise Center. It's an inner-city program where they have a basketball court and time where kids can play games, but then they have another section of the center devoted for educational purposes. So, it seems you work with students in their homework and things like that. I forgot all about that, I'm glad you said that because I forgot all about that and I want to push into that before I graduate.

AB: It's nice! I love working with college students, but its nice to work with younger kids. It's a different perspective.

DM: This is basically my last question. So, at the time you were back in the Writing Center, what technology was available or used within the center, how was 35:00it used -- whether as an administrator work as an AD? What was ya'lls relationship to technology?

AB: I don't know what scheduling system you all use now, I think it was Tutor Track that we used. It was a scheduling system where students came in, would enter themselves into the computer that they arrived for their appointment, and often would take a survey as they went out. Yet, at the time we had a professional reception staff who took over scheduling. So, the scheduling and survey system for student experience was separate from us consultants as the 36:00reception staff took care of it. However, I know that one of the primary ways, at least where technology was concerned, was tracking who was coming in and who was going out of the center. In the virtual Writing Center, our appointment system was email-based for giving feedback, so it was pretty straightforward. This is going to feel really old, we did have copiers because a lot of times we would copy student's essays ,which seems weird now since everyone shows up with laptops and you just share documents. So in that respect we were in the transition zone between coming into where now everything is more streamlined as 37:00things are done largely on student's laptops and phones.

DM: We are the end of the session so thank you again AB for joining. If you have anything else that you feel is important that you want to say, here is the time.

AB: I was thinking before I came in for the interview, I was waiting for the question "What do you feel like you learned most working at the Writing Center?" So, I was trying to think back to that time. Some of it I have already talked about such as working with the director who taught me how to rethink my own practices and to constantly investigate that. One of the things I learned most 38:00during my time in the Writing Center as I was going to teach is that while teaching composition at UofL, with first year student who are uncertain of their desired discipline, was understanding all the different types of disciplines students were coming from.  We worked with students in the police officer training program and even students in the engineering program. Quite frankly, since I went to school for my undergraduate at Grand Valley State University on the coast of Lake Michigan, at that time their were not many international 39:00students at all. However, working at the UofL Writing center, I got to meet and know international students. So, I got to learn about different disciplines, different writers, and different languages that I had never been exposed to before. Thus, that helped me in planning my approach for the classroom since it gave me a better sense of the different goals my students had, different places they may be headed in terms of their writing, and some of the different backgrounds they may be coming from. Thus, one of the rewarding things of the center was that everything was always new, but you got to learn so many new things from the students you worked with. But it did also help me to become a better teacher later on.

DM: Initially, when I figured out we would have to work with PhD science students, those were the students I was most scared of since I did not 40:00understand that discipline. But you're right, as you're working in the Writing Center you get to come across all those different disciplines, really learning how to navigate each well. 

(Recording Ended)