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´╗┐Jack Landau:

...Principal. There was no organized Hebrew school those days, and he was the principal and the supervisor, and they had a paid teacher. Now, I cannot tell you about any of the children or about the [foreign language 00:00:19] of the B'nai Yankov, which was across the street. But later on, this little, one room, this Lincoln Cabin-like shul, became the Beth Hadmedresh Hagodol at Preston and Fehr.

Interviewer:

Oh.

J.L.:

And then after that, Rabi Zarchy had already accumulated enough help from the Balaboten in Louisville to build a Louisville Hebrew School on [Bolond 00:00:47] Street between Floyd and Brook, nearer to Brook Street. And that was the Louisville Hebrew School, which exists today.

Interviewer:

Oh, really.

J.L.:

It was with the help of Mr. Leo Wolko and his son-in-law Mr. Sherpard. They were 1:00very hard workers in those days, and they helped finance and raise money, and institute the Louisville Hebrew School. That's where it was. They had pretty good teachers. I wasn't very much ... I had already stopped studying Hebrew, because I had already practically studied all that they could teach me. I kept studying with Rabbi Zarchy, I used to attend all of his lectures.

Interviewer:

Who was this Rabbi Zarchy?

J.L.:

Rabbi Zarchy was known as the Rabbi [colar 00:01:33] of Louisville. The Chief Rabbi. He was the Rabbi of the B'nai Yankov shul, he was the Rabbi of the Beth Hadmedresh Hagodol he was also the Rabbi of the First Street shul, which later on took a [roof 00:01:50] for itself by the name of Rabbi Klavanski, who was a son-in-law of a man by the name of Mr. Rogoff, who had two sons, one of them who 2:00was killed in a war in 1918. Later on, some of the people who had lived around 10th Street, 12th Street, Seventh Street, establish the shul on 12th Street, with the help of Mr. Spevack.

J.L.:

Mr. Spevack was a tailor, he was a very religious man, he had a very nice family. One of his sons was Moes Spevack, he was a musician and he had a band, and he used to play at these balls and dances that they used to have in the Liederkranz Hall those years. The shul on Saturday nights, the cities would run dances.

Interviewer:

Was that connected with the shul, the Liederkranz Hall?

J.L.:

The Liederkranz Hall was rented by people who wanted the gift to societies. They 3:00wanted to give it dances, to raise money. And they used to give those Saturday and Spevack was the fellow who supplied the orchestra. Later on he was in the business in Louisville, Kentucky, at a clothing store, on Market Street, between Eighth and Ninth Street, in 1910. They were a very fine family. There were several brothers, there were a Babe, Babe Spevack, Sam Spevack. And one of them is a doctor, and one of them became, they became a doctor, and they went to Mumfordsville, Kentucky. One year, I went down to visit him in Mumfordsville. He was a regular country doctor, and then he was very, very well liked. It must have been in the 30s, I visited him.

Interviewer:

Well, there must still some of the Spevack family here?

J.L.:

I suppose there's still some Spevacks family. Well now the Jewish neighborhood at that time consisted of an area. I marked it out here in a red pencil for you. We lived in this area. We lived here. Well maybe we lived there and so forth.

4:00

Interviewer:

Now what are those streets there?

J.L.:

I'm starting at Jackson Street because I lived on Jackson Street, and the Jewish community had stores all the way up to Shelby Street. There were the Erlichs, the Erlich family, and the Schulman family. There was a man who had a dry goods store by the name of Mr. Schulman, and his son later became a magistrate, Schulman, who was a lawyer. Then there was a department... now the Jewish people there in those days already had department stores. They had furniture stores. One of them was run by a man by the name of a Henny, who was German. They used to call him the Deutsch. And all these people had stores all around here.

J.L.:

And in the little area between Jackson Street and the Brook Street, there were all the Jewish butcher shops, and all the Jewish bakeries, and all the Jewish butchers. And I can tell you the names, there were two Jewish bakers in that 5:00area. There was Diamond the baker, whose store was on Jefferson Street, between Preston and Floyd, and Fligo, Fligo's bakery, which was a bus before Linkers on Floyd and Market. And he had two daughters, they should be the sales girls. They were very nice people, they had a very nice... Fligo was president of one of the shuls. And then they had a butcher in that corner, opposite Fligo's, by men of Kramer. They had a butcher by the name of ... way back on 1904/05, they had a butcher by the name of Shapinsky. And after that became a butcher by them of Ruben.

J.L.:

And then after that became a butcher by the name of Schrager, and had those butchers, Schrager, Reuben, Kramer. Those were the butchers uptown, downtown 6:00they had butchers too, in the Seventh Street area. And a lot of the Jewish people live down there. Seventh and Walnut, they had department store by the name of Corn.

Interviewer:

And were these all Kosher butcher shop?

J.L.:

These were all Kosher, I'm talking about all Kosher butcher shops. We had two Jewish Kosher dairies. One was Goldstein, and one was Finebury. They were the Kosher, they were real Koshers. There were [close shovers 00:06:29], they were strictly kosher. Now I can't tell you about the Butcher stores downtown. They had Kosher butchers below Seventh Street. See below Seventh Street ... The Jewish community sort of broke up a little bit, because the stores stopped, I would say between First Street, now First Street had a group of Jewish businessmen too. In fact, they had a [ghator 00:06:54] on Fourth Street, because the Anshei S'fard shul was located on First and Walnut. At that time, what is 7:00now the Adath Jeshurun schul, the shul that you belong to. That started at Floyd and Chestnut Street near the Floyd and Chestnut Street school. Now I went to school with a lot of Jewish children. Not too many but just enough to make a little a salt and pepper-

Interviewer:

A nucleus.

J.L.:

And in the school that I went...I went to school with the Glaser boys, I went to school with the Walterman children. And a lot of them. They're all dead now. I can't remember them. All the people I went to school with, they're all dead. In my public school, and that's where I met a lot of those people. We met the Waltmans, the Waltmans, I went to school with some of the Waltmans. The Watermans, the Berments, all those children there, and then in that area between 8:00Jackson and Brook, and Market...and between Market and Broadway, where all the Jewish, Preston Street was all Jewish, and they had all kinds of tradesmen there. There were paper hangars, Jewish paper hangers. We had two Jewish paper hangers in that time.

J.L.:

We had secondhand stores, and we had little department stores, like Mrs. Waterman store. Preston Street was full of Jewish stores. Every, practically 90% of the stores were Jewish. A fruit store here and there was not Jewish. A jeweler here and there, Shawning, E.H. Shawning. I went to school with the Shawning boys. The Jewish children in the public school, like the Saltzman children, they were treated very well. The teachers made absolutely no distinction between Jewish and non-Jewish children.

9:00

Interviewer:

There wasn't any anti-semitism.

J.L.:

Never ever. In our public school. I'll give that credit to the Louisville school system, because at that time, way back at that time, we had the school board, was elected. One of the superintendents, one of the people that was on the board of education was Dr. Blum, but had nothing to do with religion. And a man by the name of Engelhart was on the board of education. And Dr. Marx was the superintendent. Our principal was a Unitarian, you see, but up until...and they had a lot of Jewish children in that school, but they only went there as far as the sixth grade. Then all these children who reached the sixth grade had to go to Floyd and Chestnut, because the [Fort Ward 00:09:47] school where I went to, didn't have anything beyond the sixth grade.

Interviewer:

Was [inaudible 00:09:54] in the afternoon, after public school?

J.L.:

Yeah. After the public school we went to [inaudible 00:09:59], our little [inaudible 00:10:01] was next door to the [inaudible 00:10:03] and we met a lot 10:00of German boys, the Turners for like. That was next door to the little shul. The little shul was a little tiny shul, and nextdoor to that, a great, big long, a great, big empty space, and we got acquainted with some of the boys. Later on, I met some of the boys in high school when I went to high school. What I'm talking about, the kind of stores we had around there, isn't that right?

Interviewer:

Yeah, right.

J.L.:

It had all kinds of stores. We had secondhand stores, the food stores and the jewelry stores, but most of them were little dry good stores, little candy stores, and soda stores, Feitelsons. But they have every kind of store. We had a tiller, a roofer by the name of [Blagha 00:10:52]. I remember him from the first day when we were in the United States, Blagha, because their family came to greet us. And one of the members of that family was related to Hilmar Airman, 11:00who was in the liquor business. It was at a liquor store.

Interviewer:

What did your dad do there?

J.L.:

My father worked for Spevacks. He worked for Spevacks.

Interviewer:

He was a tailor?

J.L.:

Yeah, he was a tailor.

Interviewer:

But didn't you tell me he was sort of a shamas.

J.L.:

In his spare time, he would act as a sort of unofficial shamas. Like a Sunday or Saturday afternoon. He wasn't exactly as shamas, until later on, he tied himself up at the shul. But what he did, it was a secretary of a shul, as a volunteer.

Interviewer:

What shul was that?

J.L.:

He was a secretary at Beth Hadmedresh Hagodol.

Interviewer:

Is that shul still in existence?

J.L.:

No. That shul, much later on when they built the Keneseth at Floyd and Jacob, and they sold it. There used to be a Floyd and Jacob. See, I can't tell you, but some of those things happened after I got out of Louisville. But at that time, your shul grew before I left Louisville, your shul, the Adath Jeshurun, from 12:00Floyd and Chestnut.

Interviewer:

That's Adath Isreal now. You're talking about Adath Jeshurun or Adath Israel?

J.L.:

No, I'm not talking about, I'm talking about Addath Jeshurun, Addath Israel was located at Sixth and Broadway. Where the telephone company was, in that area. And that was where the Dembits's were. See the German Jews lived on South Second Street, South First Street, South Third Street. I drew the line, I got in line here. See that's the west out here. That was some of the richer Jews lived out here. Like the Steviskis, so forth. Then later on they moved to Bardstown Road. Then they built that-

Interviewer:

Now this is the German Jews You're talking about? They went out at Bardstown Roads?

J.L.:

Yeah, Jews here too, Second Street.

Interviewer:

About when was that?

J.L.:

Well, they start, they go our Bardstown Road, gosh, there were the Judas' living 13:00there, there were reformed Jews were living there already, up in the Highlands. Maryland, the Isaacs lived on Maryland Avenue. It must've been about when I was 18. That must've been about 1915, '16, '17, '18. I can't remember exactly. But what I'm telling you about these stores. This was like a little ... it wasn't the ghetto, but there were every kind of stores in Jewish hands. Now that the produce industry was not in Jewish hands. In other words, you'd go down, there was a hay market there. Everybody would go to market, that was not in Jewish hands. But there were Jewish bakers, and Jewish groceries, Ben Klein set up the first supermarket in Louisville, cut rate groceries. Ben Klein set up a store. He was the son of Mr. Louis Klein, who was president of our shul, who had a 14:00little store on Preston Street. And his son, Ben married one of the [Finebrag 00:14:07] daughters, and he opened up a store. He was a merchandiser. He had sugar, 24 pounds for a dollar. Carried yourself, no deliveries.

Interviewer:

Where was his store?

J.L.:

His store was on the South side of Jefferson Street, below Preston, between Preston and Floyd. That was a big cut-rate store. Ben Klein. Everybody knew Ben Klein store. And as I said, they had two bakers, kosher. They also had a baker...later on, later on, years later, about 10 years later, or 12 or 15 years later, the Linker boys came over here, and they established the bakery on West Market Street. So we had three Jewish bakers in town.

Interviewer:

The Linkers are still here.

J.L.:

Yeah. They were started and left in the market, and they supplied...see that was 15:00the beginning of a community on the Western part of town, below Seventh Street. See, they already had a little community down there. 11th Street, 12th Street. They ran down as far as 18th Street. You could run into a Jewish store at 1512, there was a Jewish dry goods store, [Y Shakers 00:15:21]. And then Louisville had a lot of Jewish doctors those days. They had Jewish drugstores, the [Gruommans 00:15:27] had a drugstore at Seventh and Jefferson. The Gruomman family, they were a reformed Jews. On the south side of Market Street, they also had stores that were run by very rich reformed Jews. Their names were Marks, they were in the [hide and towel 00:15:54] business. And then Main Street, between First from First Street down to Seventh Street, was wholesale houses.

16:00

J.L.:

And they were a lot with Jewish merchants. See Main Street was the wholesale house where the whiskey houses were. [Ory Warthon 00:16:15], Old Grandad, Dunlap Hardware, Kentucky Tobacco.

Interviewer:

[inaudible 00:16:25]

J.L.:

And then that was a Second Street. And they had a Third Louisville Bank, Louisville Bank, the Third National Bank, all the banks there, but no Jewish stores in that area, then they skipped. And then at Fifth Street, the Jewish store started again, below Fifth Street. And then there were Jewish wholesalers who sold cotton goods, shirts, like [inaudible 00:15:51] Shapinsky and Company, they had wholesale house at Sixth and Main. And there were electrical contractors in Louisville, Jewish people, Oppenheimer's. They had a store and 17:00shop at Third and Market Street. They were reformed Jews. Then there was Levy's Department Store, they were reformed Jews, at Third and Market. Low and Hearts, what's that-

Interviewer:

Low and Hearts is still here, yeah.

J.L.:

Low and Hearts, yeah. So is Levy's. Low and hearts was Third and Market, right across the street.

J.L.:

And then later on, Ben Schneider came and opened up a store at Fifth and Market. Fourth Street, that store is Kauff and Strauss. A lot of stores out Fourth Street were already in Jewish hands. Bike, shoes, and fur coats. I can't remember some. I did work for when I...later on.

Interviewer:

What were you doing Jack?

J.L.:

I was working, I was selling papers. I was selling papers until I went to work in 1911. Nineteen hundred and nine, nineteen eleven, or during the summer vacations, I worked for Bernard Seligman. Bernard Seligman was connected with 18:00the Snead Architectural Ironworks. They were builders of post offices around the United States, and I was the office boy. I worked there for two or three summers, and then when my brother, Israel, worked there later on, he worked there as a bookkeeper for a number of years, after I left for New York. I think they're out of business now. And the Seligman family was a very fine family. They were upper, they were German Jews, and they were members of the Addath Israel Temple. So were the Flexners, and the Brandeis'.

J.L.:

Dr. Font Brandeis was my doctor when I was in the hospital, and Dr. Henry Rugal was our doctor. He became a doctor. He came from New York somewhere around 1912 I think, 1912 or 1913. He's still alive. I saw him the last time I was in 19:00Louisville. I visited him. After that I went to work for a telephone company. I worked for the electric light company for a number of years. Then I went to work for telephone company. I worked for the telephone company, five years until the war.

Interviewer:

You were here during World War One?

J.L.:

I was in World War One.

Interviewer:

Were there many Jewish boys-

J.L.:

There were quite a few, yes. A lot of them got killed. Yes, yes. There were quite a few. I remember Louis Rugoff was one of the boys who got killed, but I can't remember. I went into the Navy, you see. I was with a telephone company, and I was exempted for a while because I worked in an engineering office, and I was exempted because I was helping support the family. And because the telephone company needed me. Then finally, they got to the point where there were no more deferrals and I enlisted.

Interviewer:

You went into the Navy?

J.L.:

I went to the Navy, yeah. And then I went to New York, and I met my future wife. Then I came back to Louisville after the war, and I started the business of my 20:00own. 820 West Market Street. And I was there about a year, a year and a half. And I did business with the Western and with the Jewish people. And I also did business with the big firms. I did the work for the Federal Reserve Bank and so forth. I did quite a good electrical work here in town. And then one day I decided I'd go up and get married, and sold my business, and I went to New York.

Interviewer:

And you left it there?

J.L.:

And I left, that's right, that's it. And I left my family here, and I used to come to see them every few years. Now what else you want to know?

Interviewer:

Well, let me see. Let's back up a little bit. Were you active in any of the Jewish organizations or institutions?

J.L.:

No, no, no.

Interviewer:

Can you tell me anything about the beginnings of any of them, that made the Jewish Community Center or anything like that [crosstalk 00:20:51]

J.L.:

All I can tell you about, the formation of the schuls, because the First Street shul was Anshei Sfard. The two synagogues, Beth Hedmedresh Hagodol were all in 21:00the supervision of Rabbi Zarchy. The Third Street temple Addath Israel moved to around near the library on Third Street, where it wasn't until it was sold until the other day. And they had a rabbi there by the name of [Enerol 00:21:21], who went to New York and became rabbi of the temple of Fifth Avenue Temple, Fifth Avenue... the famous temple in New YorkTook, what the hell? Temple Emmanuel.

Interviewer:

Emmanuel, yeah.

J.L.:

And until a few years ago when he died, and then Rabbi Joseph Raul took his place, and I think he died. Rabbi Joseph Raul. They named the plant-, built the planetarium in his honor. He was the head of it. Then there was also a conservator, a reform synagogue here in Louisville, called B'rith Sholom-

Interviewer:

Oh, yeah. B'rith shul.

J.L.:

-and that was at Second and College. Later on, I think they had a rabbi by the 22:00name of Mueller, I can't remember who was here after him.

J.L.:

And then the, your temple, Addath Jeshurun, later moved up to the Highlands. And so did the Keneseth which was a combination of the Beth Hadmedresh Hagodol and the B'nai Yanov, after they left Floyd and Jacob. Or somewhere around there. Yours was at Brook and College. Mr. [Swaythour 00:22:33], the man who owned the moving picture theater. He was one of the big mem of your... connected with the shul. He worked very hard to establish that temple at Brook and College. That's the Swaythour family who did that. I don't know-

Interviewer:

I don't know them either.

J.L.:

Then there were the [Adas 00:22:52] family who had shoe stores on the west end of Louisville. But there were several Adas's. And there was [inaudible 00:22:59] Tackau, he was in the insurance business. I remember him. I knew a great many of 23:00the people personally. A great many, I can't think of them, but if you'll read me a list of names, I can tell you, "Well, I knew him and I knew him, and I knew him." There was Savisky family, who were pawn brokers, and there was the Isaac families. They were prominent in Louisville affairs. Then there was a doctor's dentist we had. There was doctor...one of the first dentist in Louisville to give painless extraction, was doctor...I can't think of his name, he was on First Street, on Market Street between Second and Third. Doctor [Gelanther 00:23:40]. Then we had optometrists, Jewish optometrist by the name of Mr. Goldstein. And then later on came some brothers. They had a store on Jefferson Street. They were very good mechanics.

24:00

Interviewer:

Do you need a drink of water?

J.L.:

No. I forget their name, strange name, but one of them is still in business here. Optometrists in the Highlands from that family, they came here many, many years ago. We had Jewish optometrists, you had Jewish doctors, you had Jewish dentist, you had anything you wanted practically was Jewish.

Interviewer:

And it was all centered, more or less in the beginning. They were all in that one area that you're talking about?

J.L.:

In those two areas. And then gradually it spread down that area, out the South Louisville. Like this Sapinsky family, they lived out South Third Street and back in the monument. They were members of Addath Israel. And the families gradually spread, and spread, and spread through, until you have to move up to the Highlands.

Interviewer:

I guess you see a big difference when you come back to Louisville?

J.L.:

Oh yeah, I see a big difference. Some of the family, I still remember them. I see people, I just met Farrel Saltzman, one of the old people in the family. And 25:00of course the YMHA was a vocal point where everybody would meet. Oh, Louisville had a lot of Jewish real estate people. The Linker family was...There were cigar makers, and they were in the central part of the city. Schatz was a real estate business. He was in the central part of the city, at 6th and Jefferson. And there were bankers at a bank building a loan association. I think that has something to do with Jewish people. Had some Jewish people in it. I don't remember them. The Flexners, I think one of the Flexners was connected with the banking business. But whenever you went in Louisville they had...Louisville was a Jewish city, like the the store where Jay Bacon had a store. Practically every store on that side was Jewish except Bacon's and maybe a little candy store. Rudolph and Bauer, real candy people.

26:00

Interviewer:

Oh, Bauers, there's still a Bauers here, I think.

J.L.:

But there used to be a Rudolph and Bauer. Later on around about 1918, another electrical firm came to Louisville, two boys by the name of [Broido 00:26:19]. Loyd Broido, and Harry, I think it was.

Interviewer:

Oh, that's still a Broido here- [crosstalk 00:26:26]

J.L.:

Yeah, but they established a business at Second and Broadway.

Interviewer:

But they- [crosstalk 00:26:33]

J.L.:

Yeah, there was Max. Max was the eldest. He was a nice man. There were nice boys, and they did quite a lot of contracting in Louisville. Tri-City Electric company, the named it. After I went away in 1922, I can still remember that they had three big people who went into iron and metal business, the first one that 27:00was near where we live with Simon Webber. he had a big iron metal business, they call it the Junk Business. And then later on the [Clampnor 00:27:11] brothers came along. Morris Clampnor. They were in the west end of town, and there were the Adeis family. There were so many, I can't remember them all, it's impossible. They were the Brooks brothers. Brooks had a clothing store on Market, between Brook and Floyd, on the south side of Market Street. I guess some of those areas are gone and disappeared

Interviewer:

Probably. You mentioned the YMHA, do remember the beginnings of the HA, and-

J.L.:

Yes. I can remember the YMHA started ... The earliest that I recall must've been somewhere, I can't remember. I can remember when the YMHA started at 729 South Second Street in Louisville, a Louisville boy by the name of Lewis Cohen became 28:00the director, and he did a very good job.

Interviewer:

Was this in the very beginning, when they first started?

J.L.:

I must've been too young. Well, when I came, I was already working for the telephone company. I never got to the YMHA until I was about a few years before I left Louisville. I wasn't enthusiastic of those things. I used to spend most of my time in the library.

Interviewer:

Okay. Can you tell me now something about the building that the Y was in, and any of the activities, if you remember.

J.L.:

Well they used to have dances, affairs. They had a nice library. The second one, it was at the corner of ... I think it was York Street, that's the street in the back of Broadway. That was a church, First or Second Presbyterian Church at that corner, because I remember going back to listen to the o,rganist who I worked with at the telephone company. YMHA was a 729, it was a block away from the 29:00YMCA. the YMCA was at the corner of Third and Broadway. YMHA was on Second Street, on the corner of York Street. I think that's ...

Interviewer:

What kind of building did they have?

J.L.:

It was a brick building. I don't remember when it had a swimming pool or not, but I know they had a track that for running, because I used to run on it. A quarter of a mile track they had. And they had clubs there, and at first the Orthodox people didn't have anything to say in the Y, the early years of the Y was dominated by the, I would say the majority of the, not the...the Orthodox Jewry was practically out of the YMHA for a long, long, long time.

30:00

Interviewer:

Why do you think that was?

J.L.:

Because it did not attract the Orthodox boys until later on. Then some of the Orthodox boys began to join. Boys from Orthodox families. And then the YMHA, they had an orchestra, YMHA orchestra, because it was an Orthodox boy, by the name of Simon, had a lot to do with the getting the orchestra into action. But really the YMHA was not for the real Orthodox, for a long time, because it was practically run by the people from your shul, the conservatives and the reform element. They had lot to do with the YMHA.

Interviewer:

What kind of activities did they have?

J.L.:

They had dances, balls, affairs. I can't tell you, I didn't participate in them. 31:00I was glad to study or to...They had backdrop.

Interviewer:

[crosstalk 00:31:05] in the orchestra-

J.L.:

They had an orchestra, yes. The YMHA orchestra. I didn't take much apart in that stuff, I told you I didn't take any parts in the Jewish affairs. I stuck pretty close to studying, I wasn't much of a-

Interviewer:

When did the Orthodox begin to participate?

J.L.:

Just about 1917, '18, about just before the war I guess, just before the war. Maybe '14, '15, '16. I don't know, maybe somewhere around there. And then later on, what happened when the war started, when the First World War started in 1914, an influx of Jewish soldiers, of Jewish people came to Louisville and changed the whole setup of Louisville. Some of the people had brought a lot of 32:00Jewish boys, but I can't tell you too much because I wasn't involved with the Jewish community. Myself, I was a little bit aloof from the Jewish committee. I had a lot of business with the [Goysha 00:32:11] Community. I had a lot of Goysha friends. I traveled in Goysha circles in spite of the fact that I was a Jew, I traveled in circles of Judge Miller, a son who was a mayor of Louisville. We were very good friends, and I worked for the paper. I carried papers, and I pilled around with a lot of the boys who papers. A lot of Irish boys. I had more Irish and non-Jewish friends, than I did Jewish friends, because I worked for the telephone company.

Interviewer:

Yeah, and there went many Jewish boys probably?

J.L.:

I worked for a telephone company from 1913 to 1918, and there were four of us Jews that I knew. There was Old man Goldstein, who had been in the telephone company from time and memorial, who lived at Preston and Chestnut. He worked on 33:00the actual physical plant department, where he repaired telephone instruments and so forth. I worked in the engineering department, drafting department, at the division office. He worked for the local telephone company, Cumberland Telephone Company, local district office. And then there was a man by the name of Moses Cohen, whose father was a tailor, and Moses Cohen worked for the telephone company. Another fellow by then a Benny Smith worked for the telephone company. That's all I can remember.

Interviewer:

All those, all those, they were all Jewish?

J.L.:

Oh, Jewish, sure. Benny Smith, everybody knew Benny Smith was Jewish. Everybody knew I was Jewish. Everybody in the whole town knew I was Jewish, the general manager. Everybody knew. They used to kid me about it, and I used to laugh with them. They all liked me very, very much.

Interviewer:

Well, when you think back, can you think of any Jewish figures that were outstanding in the community?

J.L.:

Oh, sure. Of course. There was Judge Ben F. Washer, he was the Chief Council at the Louisville Railroad. There was a Seligman the lawyer, Joseph Seligman. And 34:00the architects. Joseph and Joseph, outstanding men in the community. Emil Tackau was an outstanding man in the community. The Flexner family, Dr, Jacob Flexner was an outstanding man in the community. Rosenberg, the undertaker, old man Rosenberg, who had two daughters, and one of them have been married to a rabbi. Dr, Bloom who was a great guy, he was a fine doctor. Doctor Israel Letterman, one of the famous eye doctors, Dr. lFlaeshaker 00:34:49], Frank Flaeshaker was an outstanding, well beloved doctor. I can tell you so much. Goldberg was a 35:00Jewish dentist on Second, he as well liked, had a very nice practice on Second and Broadway, Dr. Goldberg, our plain needle. He was a very good doctor. Did some work on me too. He was very well liked.

J.L.:

And then there were glass manufacturer, glass people in the glass business, who were well known. [Wolfe Blitz 00:35:22], installed glass in the big buildings, and they had young fellow who worked for him, went in business for himself called Meyer, Meyer- his father was Ted Brill. Brill, the tailor, had a son, and his son worked for Blitz, and he later on became Brill Glass Company. He went in the glass business. And the outstanding Jewish people in the educational field. You see, if I'd have some reference, I could recall, but I can't remember.

Interviewer:

This Rabbi Zarchy that you mentioned, was he-

J.L.:

Rabbi Zarchy was a scholar of the [first water 00:36:01]. He was a sickly man, 36:00he had asthma. He came to Louisville from Des Moines, Iowa. His wife was a wonderful woman. They had no children. And we were the errand boys, because we lived across the street from them. The rabbi would call on us to run errands for him. My father would run errands for him, my father would die for him, my father would. I attended to all of Rabbi Zarchy's afternoon lectures. Whenever Rabbi Zarchy gave a lecture, I attended. Every Saturday afternoon, wherever Rabbi Zarchy spoke, I was there to listen to him. That's where I got a great deal of my Jewish education and knowledge.

Interviewer:

Was he affiliated with any particular shul?

J.L.:

No, he was the city [of the sea 00:36:46], he received pay from all the shuls, would contribute to his salary. I'm ashamed to tell you what his salary was. I wouldn't-

Interviewer:

Oh, I can imagine.

J.L.:

It was very small. It wasn't sufficient, he had to draw on his own resources at 37:00the city. And a lot of times they were deficient in paying him. Because I know my father would sometimes ask me to collect money for certain purposes. And I used to go out on Second Street on Sunday mornings. I'd collect 25 cents from this family, 25 cents for this family, 25 cents ... They belonged to a sort of organization called [inaudible 00:37:29] I don't know whether they were rabbinical family, I don't know what it was. They used to give me about 50 receipts, and papa would say to me, "Jack go out, you've got a bicycle, go out to Second and College, Second and Breckinridge. That's where the Jewish people lived. Adeis and Company, and I would collect quarters, and I say to my father, "Papa, what is this money for?" He'll say, "Nevermind, it's for the [foreign language 00:37:52], for the community."

Interviewer:

Well, were there other rabbis here?

J.L.:

No, there weren't many. No, no. He was the only rabbi. Later on after he died, 38:00each shul got it's own rabbi. But you see, like, the downtown shul, the shul that started on 12th Street didn't have a rabbi. They considered him, they referred all matters to him. He was like a Chief Rabbi. And he was greatly respected. He was respected by Rabbi Mueller, he was respected by Rabbi [Ermelo 00:38:27], and Rabbi [Rauhg 00:38:30]. He was respected by everybody. One Saturday he would went down to one shul, one Saturday he would went out in another shul, and one Saturday he would lecture in this...Later on, the First Street shul, which was Anshei Sfard got their own rabbi, Rabbi [Klomanski 00:38:49], for a long time. I didn't know what happened to this, I don't know what happened to...then that became what is known as Rabbi [Ruderman 00:38:56] shul. Then later on, the 13th Street shul, that was on 12th and Jefferson, which 39:00was started by the Spevack family, combined with the Ruderman shul.

Interviewer:

And what was the name of it? What was it called when they combined?

J.L.:

Anshei Sf- I don't know the name. I don't know the name of Ruderman shul.

Interviewer:

Where did Rabbi Zarchy come from?

J.L.:

Rabbi Zarchy came here about 1901 from Des Moines, Iowa.

Interviewer:

Was he born in this country, or was he?

J.L.:

I don't think so. He was a great [inaudible 00:39:28], because my [inaudible 00:39:29] knew him. My Rabbi [Washer 00:39:30] knows him. He was a great scholar, unfortunately, he was a little asthmatic. He was a fine man, he was a great-

Interviewer:

Did he live here until he died?

J.L.:

Yeah, he lived here. He lived on 320, he lived at 330 East Walnut Street for a long time. Then he moved to 502 East Chestnut Street, Chestnut and Jackson, Jackson and Chestnut, on the other side. There was also a very fine doctor here at that time, who who helped start that shul of yours, with Mr. Simon Shapinsky. 40:00Mildred Landau's grandfather.

Interviewer:

Yeah, [that's Addath Jesurun 00:40:09] you're talking about.

J.L.:

I'm talking about your shul, Addath Jeshurun, not Addath Israel.

Interviewer:

Yeah.

J.L.:

And Dr. Solanger who lived on Chestnut Street, between Preston and Jackson. On that side of the street was a big ... also, he acted like a president of the shul. He was a very important man in the shul. He helped build, but later what happened to them, they moved to Chicago, and one of them later on came back to Louisville. I saw her, her name was Birdie Solanger, my mother is crazy for her. Dr. Solanger was a lovely man. I knew all of those people.

J.L.:

Of course, I can't remember ever ... Then there was a man, who had a store, by the name [Shacaskey 00:40:56]. He had a store on First and Market, and he had a 41:00son. Once I was in New York City, I bumped into him. He remembered me and I remembered him from Louisville, his name was Abe. He changed his name from Abe Shacaskey, to Abe Chase. I remembered him. I bumped into him. I never saw him. And I remember the [Strule 00:41:16], Charlie Strule. He was the head of the Federation. Charlie Strule was the son-in-law of...who did he marry? He was one, he married one of the Shapinsky's.

Interviewer:

He was the head of the Jewish Federation?

J.L.:

Yes. Charles Strule. He had a brother by the name of Herman. Herman became a doctor.

Interviewer:

Did they call it the federation in those days?

J.L.:

Yes, it was called the Federation, yes. It was called the Federation. And they had a woman director for a long time. I don't remember the name. I can't remember, Florence, I don't know. Well that's about all I can tell you about that. I left Louisville in nineteen twenty, 1922. I married in 1923. I started 42:00my business in Time Square, 42nd Street, and then I would go over to the library and visit Ms. Flexner. She had been promoted from the Louisville library, Readers Advisor, to the Main Library in New York. They were a few blocks away, I would see her all the time. That's Ms. Jenny Flexner.

Interviewer:

That's interesting.

J.L.:

And that's about it.

Interviewer:

That's about it?

J.L.:

I have one grandson, he's about 24. Graduated the University of Maryland. He had an average boys education. I have only one son, have a fine daughter-in-law. Her parents live in Florida, and that's where they are now, visiting their parents. But that's why I'm here in Louisville. They would be home in Tenick, where I 43:00live, I would be there with them for quite some-

Interviewer:

Do you live with them?

J.L.:

No, I live in Bogota, Bogota is a little town, four minutes ride, two miles ride from where they are. My son is Vice President of the big shul, he'll be president this year. It's a big job. It's 1,250 family members.

Interviewer:

And what denomination is that?

J.L.:

Conservative.

Interviewer:

Conservative.

J.L.:

Yeah. But we have an Orthodox Cabbi. Our shul is a large Conservative shul, on the Orthodox style. Some of the things that we do are really Orthodox. Like the cantor faces away from the audience. See, the women and men sit together, but the service is completely Orthodox. Of course there's some English and so forth. Modern service lasts three hours, but we have a full three hours service from 9 to 12, sometimes we get out half past 11, depends on how much speaking to do. And it's a well ran organization. My granddaughter went to school there, my 44:00grandson went to school there, the [foreign language 00:44:06], in the school, and graduated by Ms. Fiss. My granddaughter was bat mit'vahed she's now 23, no she's 21. She's in fifth year in Rutgers University, in the Pharmacy school. And then I have a young grandson. The youngest is 16.

Interviewer:

Oh, you have quite a family.

J.L.:

I only have one son. I have a family, large family on my wife's side. I have six sister-in-law's. Mildred is my sister-in-law, Helen is my sister-in-law. Mrs. Silva [Brage 00:44:41] is my sister-in-law who lost her husband, Eric [Pace 00:44:44], seven years ago. Mrs, Anna Silver Brage is my sister-in-law, on my wife's side. Lost her husband. And then my sister-in-law, Shady, who lost her husband a few years ago on my wife's side. And another one who was in Los 45:00Angeles is my sister-in-law, who also lost her husband in 1931, and she remarried, a man by the name of Grossman. She's still alive, but she's in the wheelchair. So, you see, I have six sister-in-laws.

Interviewer:

You got a big family. To finish up on the interview, we started the other day. You had mentioned to me that there were one or two things you might want to add on to the tape, such as mom-and-pop stores.

J.L.:

All right, will tell you about that now. A lot of these small storekeepers had stores on Market Street, Jefferson Street, Preston Street and on Preston Street, they had a great many small stores, of all kinds. Little dry goods stores, shoe stores, secondhand stores, the milk stores, the butcher shops. And the majority 46:00of the people who own those stores lived in the back of the stores, you want to see Mr. Preston who owned the little dry goods store on Preston Street. They want to go pay him a visit, you got to his home, you go to the store, and walk into the back. There were three rooms, or four rooms. And nearly everybody, like the Roth family, who had a little store, a men's storage store. It was a little secondhand store.

J.L.:

You want to visit their Roth family, you go through the store, go back by the house. That was their kitchen there, and their living room and everything, upstairs were more people. The Watermans, who had a little department store. They lived across town. And the next block there were candy stores, and I remember in one of the stores, there was a locksmith, a Swede. I've forgotten his name, I was on good terms with him. I spent a lot of time as a mechanic. He liked me. He was a Swede, and he lived in back of this store. Many years later 47:00after I left Louisville, in the 30s, I'd go visit friends there on Preston Street. Their homes were right there, back in the stores. And literally every store...in other words a man didn't...well there was Jake Brandon, who had a store. Of course, as I mentioned before, there was the Waterman store. All those people lived in the back, everybody lived in the back of the stores.

J.L.:

Mr. [Lipids 00:47:34] lived in back of his store-

Interviewer:

Was there a lot of visiting, back and forth?

J.L.:

Oh, there was constant visiting, not around on Madison Street, there was some private residences, people who were like insurance agents, who worked for other people. They lived on Madison Street there. But a lot of these people, the majority owned stores. I remember the [Rabinowitz 00:47:57] Bakery on Preston and Chestnut, a well known bakery. I forgot to mention her among the first 48:00bakers. That was in the residential area already. Right near the old city hospital. There was a little bakery there, Rabinowwitz. And she lived in back of her store. I remember her boy broke her arm, broke his arm, and he had it in the sling. And when I went to visit him, I had to go to his mother's store and go to the back.

J.L.:

And the same way with the merchants, with a lot of them, I won't say all of them, the better class merchants, the higher grade merchants, the diamond merchants, the pawn brokers; they had picked their regular places. A lot of them had their regular places on Market Street. Like Mr Isaac's, he lived on Maryland Avenue already. The Stivinsky's, they lived out on Second Street, and down, and the better known merchants on West Market Street, they already had lived on Second Street, but in the early years, all the small ... like the butcher, Mr. Ruben. He lived in the back of his butcher shop.

49:00

J.L.:

Schneider lived in back of his butcher shop. And that is why they will, the entire Jewish community was, was right in there. The shuls. Nobody had to ride anywhere. But later on when the Floyd and Chestnut Street shul, moved to Brook and College, it developed a little Jewish community on the other side of Broadway.

J.L.:

And of course there were no, there were no stores on the other side. It was all the residences, the Myers family lived on Floyd Street. The Broadway was a dividing line. But later on, a lot of the Jewish people moved out towards Brook Street, First Street, Second Street, as their stores got wealthier and better. Market Street, you had a close up your store at night, but the Jewish people who lived below Fifth Street, Sixth Street, Seventh Street, and they had little pop and mom stores, they also on Market Street, between Seventh and Ninth, lived in 50:00back of their stores. There was a little Jewish section of a few blocks long. One of them was Fisher, Fisher, the father of the man who made these windows for the Keneseth.

Interviewer:

Oh, yeah.

J.L.:

His father's store, grandfather, they lived way down on Seventh and Market Street. Then there was the Friedman family on Seventh Street, who were very well known. They were very active in the downtown schul. They had a store on Seventh Street, between Jefferson and Walnut. The blocks between Jefferson ... contained the row of stores owned by Jewish families who lived in back of their store. Like Mr. Cohen, who owned the big department store on Seventh and Walnut. He lived the back of his house, and the back of his store.

Interviewer:

That was a different way of living.

J.L.:

Yeah, a different way. But of course they ... much like Ben Schneider, who came later and establish that store in downtown, that closed up at six o'clock. And they would also many Jewish stores in the 1903, 1904, and 1905, 1906, '7, '8, 51:00'9, '10, on the south side of Market Street, between Ninth Street and 12th Street.

J.L.:

There were old established Jewish stores. Like the Roth family, Mr. Abraham Roth, the brother of the man who lived on Preston Street. He had a store, he had a real nice department, later became the [Schartz 00:51:28] family. They lived on the, they lived on the Market Street, between 10th and 11th. And they lived in back of their house. And non Jewish neighbors, like Mr. [Schrader 00:51:44], they had jewelers by name of Schrader. They were jewelers, they were not Jewish. They also had jewelry, and they lived in the back of their stores. And even a lot of non-Jewish families who had little stores up there, hey lived in the back of their houses. In other words, a man didn't live downtown, on Market Street, 52:00they had a little store. He didn't have to get on the street car and go home.

Interviewer:

Everything was standing right there-

J.L.:

Compact, constantly compact there all the time.

Interviewer:

Their social life too [crosstalk 00:52:14]

J.L.:

The social life was all grouped around those three organizations. And of course, they had some way of keeping in touch with the Western arm, because they used to have these dances, and balls, and the fairs. And they were pretty well publicized, and they had a very good attendance from all neighborhoods. Like the [Liederkranz 00:52:38] hall was a favorite spot for dances and balls. It was like a, I don't know, like a...Liederkranz hall was a hall, it was rented to political rallies, to synagogues for dances and so forth. They didn't use the YMHA, because I think the YMHA at that time was too small. And at those balls 53:00you would meet Jewish people, Jewish families from Preston Street, Market Street, Chestnut Street, Brook Street, Seventh Street, Eighth Street, Ninth Street, Twelfth Street.

J.L.:

They would all come and go in those...and that is why a lot of those people had their residences right in the right at their place of business, even a lot of non-Jews. We lived upstairs one time, over a food store, and the man owned the food store, and he lived downstairs-

Interviewer:

Who was this, do you remember?

J.L.:

-and he lived downstairs at back of his store. And next to all were very nice German family by the name of [Schonings 00:53:41]. They had a jewelry store, and they lived over that store.

Interviewer:

That was the way of life then.

J.L.:

That was the way of life then in those days, yes. Everybody lived there. [Fineberries 00:53:51] lived there, the milk man lived in the back of the store. The Goldsteins lived in the back of the store. The Diamonds lived in the back of their store, the Roth's lived in the back of the store, Waterman's lived in back 54:00of the store. And here and there was...between some of the stores was a couple of lots of properties, which were residences. There were no stores, here's the store, and then back is a residence. They were on Preston Street.

J.L.:

We lived in one of those houses there and then the next block would be stores again, and the people that live in back of the stores. There was a Jewish butcher by the name of Moss, who owned Trey Butcher Shop, not Jewish, not kosher, who was a member of the Addath Israel. And he had a store on Preston and Madison, and he did not live over his store. He lived away from there. He used to have to come to work. Mr. Moss, he closed up his store at night, and then he lived somewhere else.

Interviewer:

He got away from it at night?

J.L.:

Yeah. He got away from that.

Interviewer:

You also told me that there was Jewish people in the construction business.

55:00

J.L.:

Yes. In the construction business, I recall, there was a man by the name of Borenstein. At first he was a small carpenter, a small builder, he did small jobs. Later on he grew bigger and bigger, became, I think it was [Beat 00:55:18] Bornstein and Sons. And later on, I think his son [Ally 00:55:23], became part of the business, and they built the Republic building. He became general contractors in the Republic building. Then there was another fellow by the name of Platoff, he came over from Russia or Poland, I don't know, he became a member of the smallest shul, then later on he became a member of both shuls and he was a carpenter and a builder, by the name of Platoff. I think he married a girl by the name of Koppelman, I think, I don't remember. I think he married Yanik Koppelman.

J.L.:

And he became a builder, a contractor who branched out and built more, and more, and more homes, and stores, and finally associated himself with a man by the 56:00name of Bush. Jewish man, nice man. They used to be members of our shul. Downtown Preston and Green, Preston and Liberty now. That was Beth Hadmedresh Hagodol. And they set up a business called Platoff and Bush. They were pretty large...they did some pretty nice buildings. They did some pretty nice building. And did I tell you about the junk people, who were in the junk business?

Interviewer:

No. No.

J.L.:

Louisville had people who went to iron and steel business. When I came to Louisville, the best known was Simon Webber.

Interviewer:

He was in the junk business?

J.L.:

Yeah, they owned a big junk shop right on Jackson and Main. And it covered a block between Preston and Jackson on the south side of Main Street. That was S. Weber and Sons. Then later on, a young man came over from Europe too. They were 57:00the members of the Klempner family. There was a family by name of Klempner, who had a store on Ninth and Madison Street, and they were relatives of the Saltzman family. Mara Saltzman, and whose son is Farrell Saltzman. And Mr. And Mrs. Klempner were relatives of the Saltzman family, and they had a store on the corner of Madison and Ninth Street. We were very friendly with them. My father visited them all the time. We lived above First Street, and they lived down. We used to walk down just to visit them.

J.L.:

Those boys established the Klempner Brothers Iron and Junk business. Then there was another old timer, a very old timer way, way back, 1903, 1904 on Market Street, between Ninth and 10th street. A man by the name of Jacob Levi. I 58:00mean... Not Jacob, Philip, Philip Levi. No wait, he was the father of, he was the father of Jake Levi, and they had a brother, had Sam Levi, Sam, Farrell and Harry. I think that's what it was. It was Jake Levi, Harry Levi, Nathan Levi, and Sam Levi. The four Levi brothers.

Interviewer:

All family?

J.L.:

They were up as a family. Now that later became Jacob Levi and Sons. During the World War One, they were big in army, secondhand army clothes. That's the Levi that's nowadays-

Interviewer:

That's the one this right here?

J.L.:

That's right. They started, their father started. We were very friendly with them. We visited them all the time. My father and Mr. Phillip Levi were very good friends. We used to go down to visit them very, very often. They lived over 59:00their store on Ninth and Market Street, where they had that junk store. It was a junk shop. And in the eastern part of town, there was a Jewish family by the name of Mr. [Wazwitsky 00:59:16]. He was a very religious [inaudible 00:59:20], he was a member of the, at that time, the B'nai Yankov. He had a junk shop, metal and iron business, like Weber, only on a small scale, on Green Street, which later became Liberty Street, between Preston and Floyd. And he had his junk yard there. The small dealers, the small wagons would go around and collect junk. They would sell them to Levi's and to Wazwitsky, on the east, on the uptown side, Levi was downtown.

J.L.:

And then there was the Klempner Brothers, S. Weber and Son, and later on...and 60:00then also, I remember in Louisville, there was a pickle works. I think it was a Hymen pick works. I don't think there was the Hirsch, but it was a quite a big industry in the western part of town, around 13th Street on the other side...I don't remember the street, somewhere around. It was on 13th Street and Gray. I don't remember exactly what it was. So that's about all, I think that's all I can remember about them. But I didn't want to tell you about those contractors. I did want to tell you about that. I don't remember whether it was Hyman Brothers or whether it was ... it wasn't Hirsch.

Interviewer:

The pickle? You can't remember exactly who was-

J.L.:

I think it was the Hyman Pickle first. And then the Hirsch took it over later. But it was a well known industry in Louisville.

Interviewer:

Very good.

J.L.:

And I did want to mention about those contractors, because Platoff and Bush came from the other side, worked themselves up very hard, Barnstiens worked 61:00themselves up very hard.

Interviewer:

What happened? Do you know what happened to any of these people? Where they went from here?

J.L.:

I think the Barnstien family, Ally Barnstien built the synagogue. I think, I wasn't here. You know, I left here in 1922, and I didn't keep too much in touch with details of what those people did. The old man Barnstein must've been dead by the time I got here in the 40s. I used to come every couple of years, but I didn't bother myself with civic affairs. I used to come to visit my father, mother, and brothers, and then I would go home. I visited a few friends, like my friend Mr. Isaacs, my friend Dr. Ruben, something like that, big friends, [inaudible 01:01:51] friends, teachers. But I didn't bothered too much about those other...I didn't go to that YMHA. And I said before, there were a lot of 62:00people in the real estate business. I covered that before in the previous audition. Was anything else you want to ask?

Interviewer:

I think that's about it. If you can think of anything else... We certainly do thank you for your time and your enlightenment on the community.

J.L.:

I may be mistaken about a few little details, but in general, everything I'm telling you is absolutely correct.

Interviewer:

Okay, thank you very much. We do appreciate it.

J.L.:

[inaudible 01:02:29] go over it.