Interview with Suzanne Hammel, May 4, 1977

Barbara Brick:

Well, let me see. [silence 00:00:01]

Suzanne Hammel:

I was born in [1920; silence 00:00:05]. Ay mother's name was Eva Sachs. Her parents were Edward Sachs and Clara Bamberger. My father's parents were [Mose 00:00:22] Gradfelder and Ida Levi.

B.B.:

Were they all born in Louisville?

S.H.:

They were all born in Louisville, except my father who was born in Claremont, Kentucky, where the family had a distillery called Echo Springs Distillery. My Grandfather Gradfelder was one of five or six brothers. They had an uncle whose name was Sam Gradfelder. He left Louisville in the 1917-1918 era to live in the East. He was the one who owned the distillery and gave a lot of money to start 1:00the Jewish Hospital.

B.B.:

Oh, that is really interesting. But who was the first relative that came to Louisville? [silence 00:01:14]

B.B.:

We only did play. Not play and record. [silence 00:01:17]

B.B.:

Oh, when- first you just want to do play- [silence 00:01:17]

B.B.:

It must have been your grandfather's mother or father?

S.H.:

My grandfather's father must have been the one who came to Louisville first.

B.B.:

Do you know where he came from?

S.H.:

Somewhere in Germany.

B.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

S.H.:

My grandmother, Levi's parents, were born in Germany.

B.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

S.H.:

Where? I believe it was a place called [Raywy 00:01:45].

B.B.:

Do you have any idea what brought them to Louisville? Was there a relative that lived in Louisville?

S.H.:

No. I do not know why they came to Louisville. Again, you could find that out from my father. On my fath- mother's side, my Grandfather Sachs' family had come 2:00to Cincinnati. I am not sure whether my Grandfather Sachs was born in Louisville or Cincinnati, now that you pin me down. I believe he was born in Cincinnati, but he also had brothers and sisters who came here. There are very few children from that side of the family. My grandmother Sachs' grandmother, Clara Bamberger-Sachs' parents were named Julius Bamberger and Sarah Schwabacher. They had four daughters and two sons, one of whom of course was my grandmother. They owned a dry goods store called Bamberger Bloom and Company.

B.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

S.H.:

They were very successful in that store, and they built a fantastic house on 3rd and Broadway. [silence 00:02:58]

B.B.:

Where was the store?

S.H.:

The store was probably on Main or Market Street. I don't know. There is some 3:00place where you could find the address.

B.B.:

Well did they start with a little pushcart? Or did they ...

S.H.:

I don't know. It's possible they did.

B.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

S.H.:

Whatever it is, they came out- [crosstalk 00:03:13]

B.B.:

They were very- [crosstalk 00:03:13]

S.H.:

-very, very wealthy. And at one point in time, I do not know what year it was, they lost everything they owned, and they had to sell their home and move into an apartment.

B.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

S.H.:

By this time my great-grandfather was dead, and my great-grandmother and her three unmarried daughters lived in an apartment at 3rd and Hill.

B.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative) [silence 00:03:42]

S.H.:

My Grandfather Sachs was very active in the community, Jewish as well as otherwise. He was a member of the Community Chest. He was one of the board members of the Jewish Federation. At the time he was active, I believe was the 4:00time when they founded the Jewish Home for Young Children or the Convalescent Home. He was in the whiskey business. He was in a second mortgage business. I think they bought and sold second mortgages, this was at the dawn of the depression. And he had been a director of the Lincoln Bank.

B.B.:

Did he live a Jewish life in his home?

S.H.:

Not particularly. They were not very Jewish-oriented. We always knew they were Jewish. They always knew they were Jewish. Socially they met with only Jewish people, but as far as going any place otherwise ... actually my Grandmother Sachs, who was a Bamberger, made her debut in Louisville. Now, I don't think it was just the Jewish debut. I don't know any more about it than that, but I do know that she made her debut.

B.B.:

That's fascinating anyway. Well, what about things like the temple? Was there a temple then?

S.H.:

There was a temple then. Yes. The temple was founded in the '40s, 1840s.

B.B.:

Would that be Adath Israel?

S.H.:

That was Adath Israel. I don't know what they called it then, but that was ... I don't even know where it was.

B.B.:

Well, were you- was your family- were they founding members? Or did they just ...

S.H.:

The Bambergers were founding members. The Sachses came after and the Gradfelders and the Levis came later.

B.B.:

Later.

S.H.:

My Grandfather Gradfelder was in a series of businesses. He was originally in the whiskey business. At one time he owned a restaurant down at 4th and Main or 4th and Market. I don't remember exactly where that was. Again, my father could give you [crosstalk 00:05:53].

B.B.:

Was that a Jewish neighborhood?

S.H.:

No, that was the downtown neighborhood. That was downtown-

B.B.:

Where they lived, was that a Jewish-

S.H.:

Where they lived, as I recall at one time they lived on 1st Street. There were a 6:00lot of Jewish people living in the 1500 block of 1st Street.

B.B.:

When you say a lot of Jewish people, what do you mean?

S.H.:

The neighbors were Jewish. In fact, my grandmother's brother lived nextdoor to her, Abe C Levi, Abe C Levi was my Grandmother Gradfelder's brother. He had a department store on 4th Street that sold only piece goods and ribbons. It was a very elegant store at the time, that I recall it. I don't know when he started it. I don't know how he started it. He had no children, so it ended there. He had two nephews who are still living. And hey worked for him, but then when the crash came ...

B.B.:

That store ...

S.H.:

... that went the way of everything else. It was nextdoor to [Beck's 00:06:49].

B.B.:

When was that crash?

S.H.:

'29.

B.B.:

Oh, the '29

S.H.:

That was the '29 crash.

B.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, that store had been in existence quite a long time.

S.H.:

I suppose it had, but I cannot remember exactly. I don't know when it started.

B.B.:

Was there- I know there's a Jewish community center now. Was there a Jewish YMCA?

S.H.:

The Jewish YMCA, as far back as I remember, was at 2nd and College.

B.B.:

And do you think that was there in the 1860s and '70s?

S.H.:

I don't believe that building was there at that time. I don't know.

B.B.:

You don't know if they had any other Jewish organizations?

S.H.:

No. No, I don't. The only thing I knew would have been the temple, which kept them cohesive.

B.B.:

Okay. Well, what about the family as it goes on now, the Sachses?

S.H.:

Well, there were no-

B.B.:

How many children in all were there? There were three unmarried daughters. And how many-

S.H.:

That was the Bambergers.

B.B.:

That was the Bambergers.

S.H.:

There were three unmarried daughters, and how many sons? One son married and had no children. Another son married a gentile and has one son who lives in Atlanta.

B.B.:

But your mother-

S.H.:

My mother ...

B.B.:

Your grandmother, I mean.

S.H.:

My grandmother had two children. My grandmother and Grandfather Sachs had two 8:00children, Catherine and Edith. Catherine never married. Edith married, and I am the issue of that marriage. On my grandfather's side, my grandparents Mose and Ida had two children, Arthur and Earl. Arthur died in 1931.

B.B.:

Did he have children?

S.H.:

At the age of 31. He was not married.

B.B.:

So your father is the last-

S.H.:

Real Gradfelder in town- around.

B.B.:

And you're an only child?

S.H.:

I'm an only child. There are Gradfelders related distantly. Daddy found one a couple years ago in Florida. They are no longer Jewish.

B.B.:

They are not longer Jewish? What did your father do?

S.H.:

My father was a football player when he was in college. He was one of the few Jewish members of the University of Kentucky team.

B.B.:

Did your grandfather go to college?

S.H.:

My grandfather did not go to college. My mother went to college and my father 9:00went to college.

B.B.:

Your grandmother did not go to college?

S.H.:

No. She went to a finishing school ...

B.B.:

In Louisville?

S.H.:

... [inaudible 00:09:09].

B.B.:

In Louisville?

S.H.:

I believe so.

B.B.:

You don't know the name of the-

S.H.:

The Miss [Belle Peers 00:09:11] School. It's just come to me.

B.B.:

Miss Belle Peers School?

S.H.:

Miss Belle Peers., mm-hmm (affirmative).

B.B.:

Your mother-

S.H.:

Wait a minute. Let's stop. [silence 00:09:18]

S.H.:

After my father got out of college of course ... No. Before he got out of college, he went into service and he served overseas.

B.B.:

This was in the First World-

S.H.:

In the First World War. Then when he came back, he went into a garage business. He owned a garage at 3rd and Avery. Then that went [mahola 00:09:39], which is a good word to express what happened to it. After that he went into the insurance business and stayed in the insurance business until the second world war. After the second world war he went into the real estate business.

B.B.:

Well the- [silence 00:09:58]

S.H.:

My father, I presume, was Jewish-oriented. In the days when he was growing up, 10:00he didn't strictly go with Jewish people. I don't think he knows an awful lot of the gentiles in the community, for having been brought up in a Jewish home. I wouldn't say that ... my parents were never particularly religious.

B.B.:

Well, were they pillars of the temple?

S.H.:

No, they were not.

B.B.:

Were they pillars of the Federation?

S.H.:

My Grandfather Sachs was a pillar of the Federation. But as far as the rest of the family being supportive in the Jewish community, no. Now my Grandmother Gradfelder, my father's mother, was very active in the temple and in the Jewish Ladies Benevolent Society. This was her interest. This is the group that provided baskets of fruit and vegetables for the indigent Jewish people at holiday times, whether it be Thanksgiving or ...

B.B.:

Christmas?

S.H.:

No, not Christmas [laughing 00:11:03].

B.B.:

Was that before [Ruther 00:11:06] canceled ...

S.H.:

No. This was much later. It was dissolved maybe in the-

B.B.:

When was the Jew-

S.H.:

The Jewish Ladies Benevolent Society, it was Jewish Ladies Benevolent Society number one. It was connected with the Adath Israel temple. And I think when the older women who were active in it died, it just faded away, which was in the '50s. It was not such an old organization, [inaudible 00:11:30] existing longer.

B.B.:

On your father- with your father and mother, do you remember any really Jewish orientation, like where they lived or any social ...

S.H.:

There was no real Jewish orientation in that part of my background. The only one in my family who was Jewish oriented was my Grandmother Gradfelder.

B.B.:

Okay. [silence 00:11:54]

S.H.:

In 1914, Ed and Clara Sachs moved to River Hill Road, which was not called that then. They had a number of servants, but my grandfather went to work every day 12:00on the interurban, which was a trolley car that went from Prospect to Downtown. There was also another Jewish family who lived up there. [silence 00:12:19].

S.H.:

There was another Jewish family who lived up ... we used to call it on the hill, the Sables. There are some descendants of the Sables here in town as well.

B.B.:

Oh, really?

S.H.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I don't know anything else I can tell you about living on the River Hill Road, except they sold the house in 1926.

B.B.:

Before the crash?

S.H.:

Before the crash, because it was becoming more and more complicated transportation-wise. My parents married at the home on the River Hill Road and were living with my grandparents when I was born. I was born at the Jewish Hospital at Floyd and Kentucky.

B.B.:

Oh, who married your parents?

S.H.:

D.r [Rau 00:13:04]? No. Dr. [Anmo 00:13:05], I believe Dr. Anmo married my parents.

B.B.:

Was he the rabbi before Dr. Rau?

S.H.:

Yes.

B.B.:

And you do not know who married your grandparents?

S.H.:

No, I do not know who married my grandparents, but they were recorded [crosstalk 00:13:19] somewhere-

B.B.:

[crosstalk 00:13:20] But they were married in a Jewish ceremony [crosstalk 00:13:21]?

S.H.:

[crosstalk 00:13:21] Jewish ceremony, yes. It is recorded somewhere in my grandmother's wedding book who married them, but I don't think that ...

B.B.:

Do you ever remember any part of your family being kosher?

S.H.:

No. Here it is. Edward Sachs and Clara Bamberger were married by Doctor- Reverend Doctor Adolf Moses.

B.B.:

Well, he was the first one at Adath Israel, wasn't he?

S.H.:

I don't know. I thought that was a Rabbi Hirsch. I really don't know.

B.B.:

I don't know that answer.

S.H.:

I don't know. [silence 00:13:48]

B.B.:

Well, tell us a little about the other side of your family then.

S.H.:

My grandmother Gradfelder was the religious influence in my life, if there was any religious influence. Any of the artifacts that are in my home came from that 14:00side of the family. I have, what we refer to as a Shabbat's light and a few other pieces. Other than that there were-

B.B.:

Where did she get them. Where they inherited from her family or did she buy them?

S.H.:

No, I think they were inherited from her family. The two or three pieces which I own came from her family. She had Friday night candle lighting at the dinner table, but we never had the ritual with the bread or the wine. I've never seen that until I got married.

B.B.:

Well now, that's your Grandmother Grandfelder. What about your great-grandmother and grandfather?

S.H.:

I don't know anything about them, except, they were very poor.

B.B.:

And hey were in Louisville?

S.H.:

They were in Louisville.

B.B.:

Do you know-

S.H.:

They had a number of children also. My grandmother had a sister Fanny who married a Henry [Draughtman 00:14:54]. They had two children, and they are still living. They had three children.

B.B.:

And that is the Draughtman still?

S.H.:

The Draughtmans are still here.

B.B.:

Do you know where these poor ... you know, your great-grandparents who were poor, do you know where they live?

S.H.:

No. I think, they could have lived down on what was known as Gray Street or Green Street. They lived in that area.

B.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). You don't know how they got to Louisville?

S.H.:

No. I know that when my parents moved from living with my grandparents, they lived in Avery Court. That was in the 1920s. There were a number of Jewish people living in Avery Court at that point, which is now a part of the property that belongs to the University of Louisville.

B.B.:

Mmm-hmm (affirmative). I know where that is. Well now, your Grandmother Gradfelder was the religious one?

S.H.:

Yes.

B.B.:

Did she belong to any Jewish organization?

S.H.:

Oh, she belonged, I presume she belonged to the sisterhood and the Jewish Ladies Benevolent Society, which we have just mentioned. And She went to temple regularly on Saturday mornings. And she got out her prayer book if she didn't go 16:00to services. But that's the only really religious influence that I had in my background.

B.B.:

Well, what about your Grandfather Gradfelder?

S.H.:

He died in 1924, so I don't remember too much about him.

B.B.:

Was he old?

S.H.:

He was 54.

B.B.:

He was young.

S.H.:

Uh-huh (affirmative). He died on Derby day of a heart attack. [silence 00:16:18].

S.H.:

My father could tell you more about what the town looked like as he was growing up, and what the Jewish organizations were, and where everybody lived. I don't really know anything about it except I have heard tales over the years about how they lived.

B.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Silence .

B.B.:

Tell us where the Jewish neighborhoods were, if you can remember.

S.H.:

Well, in the very first part as far back as my information goes, I think they lived on Liberty.

B.B.:

Which was called?

S.H.:

Which was called Green Street. They moved out 1st Street, 2nd Street, and of course, 3rd Street as they became more affluent. Now at the same time some of 17:00the poorer Jews were living in the Green Street, Liberty Street area. The Bambergers, and I don't know if any other Jewish families lived around there, built this house in the 1870s or 1880s at 3rd and Broadway. There are still some pictures of it, which I possess that would be interesting, if anybody wants to ever show anything. This was their home and they were Jews. They weren't very Jewish.

B.B.:

Did you all know any Russian Jews, or Jews from other background other than German?

S.H.:

In those days they didn't. As I was growing up, certainly we did.

New Speaker:

But not- [silence 00:17:42]

B.B.:

Just a little more about the distillery of your great ...

S.H.:

My grandfather and his antecedents. The name of one of their products was Echo Springs. The distillery was called S Gradfelder and Company, Distillers, 18:00Louisville. Now Claremont must have been where they bottled the whiskey.

B.B.:

Well, it's possible Claremont, Kentucky is where they made the whiskey.

S.H.:

That's where they made it and then they- but their address is Louisville, Kentucky. We have a number of bottles in our possession from S Gradfelder and Company, which were not kept in the family but have been sent to us from different places in the United States where people have dug them up out of the ground, on the beach, and have seen that it was Louisville. Found my father's name in the telephone book. Either wrote him or called him and then sent him the bottles. This has been in the past 10 years.

B.B.:

Isn't is marvelous? Well now, there are no Gradfelders in the- in this distillery business anymore?

S.H.:

No.

B.B.:

The uncle that owned the distillery and started it, he got out of the business 19:00before anything happened to it.

S.H.:

That's right, and he had no children.

B.B.:

And he was a very wealthy man.

S.H.:

He was a very wealthy man, and a very charitable man. He gave money to start the convalescent or Tuberculosis Hospital in Denver, Colorado. In what year, I don't know. I guess it was early in the early 1900s.

B.B.:

And there are no Gradfelders in the distillery business anymore?

S.H.:

Mm-mm (negative).

B.B.:

Could you give us any names of people you think might be better?

S.H.:

Certainly who would be well-informed would be Mrs S [Frankla 00:19:37]. She is 91 years old, and she certainly can recall a lot of the family names, and what they did and where they lived.

B.B.:

And your father, we should def-

S.H.:

My father, Earl Gradfelder. There were also some Jewish families who lived in Eminence, Kentucky. The Hellbruns, and some of the Sachses lived out there. 20:00Caroline Draughtman possesses a book that refers to Jewish men who were active in the community. I can't think of what all their names are.

B.B.:

How far back do you think it goes?

S.H.:

Well, it's back to the latter part of the 1800s.

B.B.:

Okay, I think we ought to ... Well, we're going to interview her, so we'll ask her.