Interview with Louise Flarsheim, July 29, 1977

Carol Canter:

My name is Carol Canter, and I am an interviewer for the Oral History of the Jewish Community in Louisville Project, sponsored by the University of Louisville Archives and Jewish Community Federation. Today is Thursday, July 21, 1977, and I'm interviewing Louise Flarsheim at her home at 260 Chenoweth Lane.

C.C.:

Louise, as we talked about on the phone, I thought we'd start first with some family history on you, to find out how you got here and where your ancestors are from, et cetera. Why don't we start specifically, with maybe giving a... We'll talk about your parents, and where they came, and where you were born, and when, and all that.

Louise Flarsheim:

Okay. My parents came from Georgia. My father was born in Savannah, and my 1:00mother in Atlanta. My father went to Atlanta. He was in the shoe business with his brother, who had a store in Atlanta. There was one in Savannah, one in Atlanta. They moved to Louisville to open another store in 1902. I was born here in 1907, at the Jewish Hospital, which was unusual in those days, for children to be born in the hospital. So, we have three generations now, born in the hospital, in the Jewish Hospital.

C.C.:I didn't know that. And your parents' names, what were they?

L.F.:

My father's name was Louis Byck and my mother was Carrie Byck. Her maiden name was Dann, D-A-double N.

C.C.:

Oh, I see. So it was Louis Dann, and that's where Dann-

L.F.:

That's where Dann got his name. It was a family name, Dann Byck.

C.C.:

With a double-N spelling.

L.F.:

Right.

C.C.:

Oh, I, okay.

L.F.:

We wondered about that.

C.C.:

Yeah. Then, where did their family come from, originally?

L.F.:

Well, it came from Germany, from Frankfurt and Hessen-Darmstadt.

C.C.:

Its that just a small town?

L.F.:

Well, it's a little province, and it was a small town I think.

C.C.:

When did they come?

L.F.:

I'm not sure. Well, but my parents were born here, but these are my grandparents we're talking about.

C.C.:

And so they...

L.F.:

I think around 1840s.

C.C.:

I see. Do you know why they came?

L.F.:

Well, I think they came for the same reason that a lot of people came in those 3:00days, it was to avoid military service, compulsory military service in Germany, I think.

C.C.:

Was his business the shoe business, also. Is that how your family got into it?

L.F.:

I don't know. You mean...

C.C.:

Your grandparents.

L.F.:

I don't know.

C.C.:

Oh, I see. Okay. And then you were born, you were born here because your family moved here.

L.F.:

Right.

C.C.:

And what's your date of birth?

L.F.:

Didn't I say? 1907, March 5th.

C.C.:

Okay, March 5th, right. All right. Well, that gives me an idea then. Do you remember your old house?

L.F.:

Yes. We lived on First Street, between Hill and A, which was the railroad, Gaulbret I think they call it now. There were a lot of Jewish families in the neighborhood. And we lived there until I was in my early teens. Then we moved to 4:00Third Street, in the same block.

C.C.:

But you would have been on the other side of the railroad tracks?

L.F.:

No, the same side of the track.

C.C.:

I don't mean it that way. I mean, I don't really know where Gaulbret is, and so I...

L.F.:

It's between, well it's the next block south of Hill.

C.C.:

What hundred block would that be?

L.F.:

18, I think.

C.C.:

18, I see.

L.F.:

18, I think.

C.C.:

What school did you go to in your early years?

L.F.:

Cochran, Cochran School. I went through grade school there, and then I went to Collegiate.

C.C.:

Where is Cochran?

L.F.:

Cochran is Second Street, between Hill and Gaulbret.

C.C.:

Did you know many people from your neighborhood, at Collegiate?

L.F.:

They weren't really from my neighborhood, no. I think the only other Jewish girl who was there at the time was Mary Helen Adler, in those days, who later became my sister-in-law. It was very small in those days, because they had just been started. It was on Ormsby, between Fourth and Fifth, I think.

C.C.:

Oh, it hasn't always been on Glenmary?

L.F.:

No. It was in an old house on Ormsby.

C.C.:

Who started it?

L.F.:

Mrs. Speed, Mrs. Will Speed.

C.C.:

Oh, I see.

L.F.:

She was a great benefactor to the school. That family was always very interested, and a great patron of education.

C.C.:

Who were some of your classmates there?

L.F.:

Joyce Russell, she married Russell [Braudis 00:06:04]. Eleanor Gray, who married... Well, now I can't remember all these names. Would that be pertinent?

C.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

L.F.:

I should have gotten my yearbook out. Elizabeth Craven, Alice Humphrey. There were only about six in the class, you see. Very small. And the reason I went to Collegiate, I think, was because -- I mean, one of the main reasons -- I had taken French lessons from the time I was six years old, from Madame [Widman 00:06:52], and she was the French teacher over there. So, I was way ahead of my class, you know, in French. She would sort of give me private lessons in school.

C.C.:

Well, did you then have most of your friends from school, or did you...

L.F.:

No, most of my social friends were from the Jewish community, of the children of my parents' friends. And I think that's an interesting commentary, because while I felt very close to the girls at school, when we started dating I didn't go out with the same boys they went with. I can remember a tea dance at Collegiate, where we invited boys. I'm saying this because I think it made me conscious of being Jewish.

L.F.:

I invited a boy whom I knew went with these girls, or knew them. It was Ben Washer, Junior. We called him Billy in those days, and he was an old flame of mine.

C.C.:

But he knew these gals, and you thought that everybody would be more comfortable.

L.F.:

Exactly. Oh, I can remember that so well. I got such a big rush.

C.C.:

After Collegiate, where did you?

L.F.:

I went to Smith College. I didn't graduate. I had two years there, and then I got married.

C.C.:

And you came back to Louisville?

L.F.:

Right.

C.C.:

I see. What have you done to spend your time-

L.F.:

Since?

C.C.:

... since then?

L.F.:

Well, I think I was really born with a silver spoon in my mouth. We first lived, our first apartment was at Third and Hill, so I'd be near Mama. You know? Then, 9:00as we had children, there was a clause in the lease we couldn't have children in that apartment. We then moved to Alfresco Place, and then to Eastern Parkway. This was very rapid. Every two years we moved. And then we bought our house on Brownsboro Road and lived there for over 40 years.

C.C.:

What year did you marry?

L.F.:

1927.

C.C.:

So you moved in '29, '31, '33?

L.F.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

C.C.:

I see.

L.F.:

I think the first community or volunteer work that I did after I was married, I even did it before I was married. You know how kids did. I worked at General Hospital, I remember, stuff like that. And then the first thing I can remember doing was to work for Planned Parenthood.

C.C.:

In what year?

L.F.:

I guess around '27 or '28. You probably didn't know it was in existence that long.

C.C.:

No. With the same concepts as today?

L.F.:

Right, right. I thought that overpopulation was going to be the great thing, the great cause for worry in the world, and I thought that was very important.

C.C.:

Where were the offices?

L.F.:

At that time, they were on Gray Street, I think.

C.C.:

That's interesting. There doesn't seem to be much publicity, at least I know in my growing up I never heard anything about it.

L.F.:

Shortly after that, I joined the League of Women Voters, because I felt I needed to know about government. I didn't know anything. And I've been active in the League ever since. And, you know, all the things you do, volunteer work, the 11:00Community Chest. That's what it was then, not the United Way. I just can't remember all the things. I should have gotten out my clippings.

C.C.:

Did you go to Sunday School? Or, was your family a member of the Temple?

L.F.:

Yes. Yes, they were always member of Adath Israel. I went there, was confirmed.

C.C.:

Were there other temples in town at that time, too.

L.F.:

Oh, I'm sure there were, but I wasn't very conscious of them, I'll have to say.

C.C.:

What other Jewish groups?

L.F.:

I was conscious of the YMCA, YMHA, because I was very stage-struck and they had 12:00amateur theatricals, and I was in one of those.

C.C.:

You've had a very varied career.

L.F.:

I didn't enjoy that very much. I was in plays at the Old Player's Club of Louisville, you know.

C.C.:

I'm not familiar with that group.

L.F.:

No, that's long before your time.

C.C.:

What is that?

L.F.:

Well, Boyd Martin was the guiding spirit of that group. They put on very professional plays. Oh, and the Junior Congregation of Adath Israel put on such elaborate plays. We had one at Macauley's. Of course, that's a...

C.C.:

That is. Evidently, it died out?

L.F.:

That group, but it's like the Temple Youth Group is now.

C.C.:

Did it become that formally, or just?

L.F.:

I don't think so.

C.C.:

There was a hiatus?

L.F.:

Probably.

C.C.:

What about Boyd Martin's group? What's it? The Old...

L.F.:

Players Club?

C.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Did it come into anything else, or it died out too? Because, sometimes these things will change names.

L.F.:

Oh, I think it's still going, maybe as University Players. Most of those plays were at the Women's Club.

C.C.:

When we had talked on the phone, you had talked about some other families that you knew, the [Schulhafer 00:13:44] family.

L.F.:

Yeah.

C.C.:

And that they now are not really members of the Jewish community, but that you remember-

L.F.:

But that family's died out, really. Although, except for Richard and, as I say, 14:00he married a non-Jewish girl and I've lost track of him.

C.C.:

Well, I think the children were not brought up-

L.F.:

As Jews.

C.C.:

... as Jews. But you knew them very well.

L.F.:

Yes, very well.

C.C.:

Did they live in town?

L.F.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

C.C.:

And what were the names that you called, was his mother?

L.F.:

His mother was a great friend of my mother.

C.C.:

On the phone we had said that you would refer to her as Aunt?

L.F.:

Well, that was an old Southern custom. All our mother's friends were Aunt whoever, instead of calling them Missus. Aunt Amy, and she was the sister of Blanche Bensinger, who was of the Bensinger's line.

C.C.:

I see. So, years ago you pretty much lived and functioned with the people from 15:00your neighborhood? Or, did you find that you...

L.F.:

Well, mostly with the friends of my, I mean, the children of my parents' friends.

C.C.:

Did you ever have any contact with the business at all?

L.F.:

No. Oh, I would help out at Christmastime, sometimes. You mean, the store?

C.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

L.F.:

Big store? Yeah, but that was after I was married. Well, actually we were married, I guess about, oh, seven or eight years, and my husband went into the business. It was after that.

C.C.:

Your children came along when?

L.F.:

In '30 and '33. I had two children.

C.C.:

Did they follow in the same pattern? Did Margaret go to Collegiate and... ?

L.F.:

No. She went to high school, went to [Warner 00:16:22], and she went to Duke University and graduated from... May Ellen went to Michigan, University of Michigan. His father had gone to Michigan, too.

L.F.:

One of my earliest recollections of my childhood are my life at Eastwood, where my parents had a summer home. We went there as soon as school was over in the spring, and came back after school started in the fall. My father had a garden, 17:00and my mother spent most of the summer canning the produce on a wood stove, because there was no gas or electricity, and of course no air conditioning and no running water. But we loved it in the country.

L.F.:

At least, I loved it until I was about, oh, 13. And then I went to camp, went to camp in Maine, Tripp Lake, for two years. After that, you know, I was too busy thinking about boys to be stuck out in the country. And that was sort of the end of that.

C.C.:

What kinds of things would you do all summer, to spend your time?

L.F.:

I really, really don't know. I did a lot of reading. I had friends out from the city, to spend a week with me. Then I'd help garden a little, not much.

C.C.:

Who did the gardening?

L.F.:

We had a man to do it, and my father would love to do it, when he'd come home in the evening from work. He commuted every day, to the store.

C.C.:

Via a horse?

L.F.:

No, there was a train, an interurban... Well, I don't think it was the interurban. That was another thing. But there was a train, and I'm not sure what train it was, but it came right along our property. And it would stop at the foot of the hill, for my father. As a matter of fact, there was a tunnel that went under a pasture, on part of the big farm. When we'd hear that toot for the tunnel, my father would know to go down to the bottom of the hill, because the train was coming, and take him to town.

C.C.:

Well, what is the property now?

L.F.:

Oh, I think it's farmland, still.

C.C.:

It is?

L.F.:

Uh-huh (affirmative). I have been out there, not too recently, but I think the big house where the Levy's live, those were the people who owned the big farm, is still there, but our little summer cottage is gone.

C.C.:

Which Levy family is that?

L.F.:

Well, we called her Lizzie Levy, Aunt Lizzie. She was a cousin, I think, of Fred Levy, of Levy Brothers, that family.

C.C.:

And her husband was-

L.F.:

Was dead, I mean, I never knew him. I think his name was Abe. I think so. I'm not very good at remembering these things from my childhood. But we had a tennis court out there. I remember the building of the tennis court was such a project.

C.C.:

I imagine so, just getting materials out that far.

L.F.:

Yeah, dragging it up that hill.

C.C.:

By horse?

L.F.:

No, no. Well, maybe so. I guess so. We had one of the early cars. I can remember when I was seven years old, which is 1914, we took a motor trip with my parents' good friends, who were Charles and Alma [New 00:20:29]. Alma New was the daughter of Mrs. Levy, to Niagara Falls, in a car, in our first car, which was a Stevens-Duryea. And I can remember getting pulled out of the mud, you know, because there were no really hard roads.

L.F.:

And I remember something else. When we were in Toronto, my father calling me to the window, which faced a train crossing, and there were these red-coated 21:00soldiers getting on the train. He told me that there was a world war going on in Europe, and they were going. These were Canadian soldiers going to fight.

C.C.:

Oh. Was there much going on in Louisville, as far as...

L.F.:

As the First World War?

C.C.:

Yeah.

L.F.:

Oh, yes. Of course. I don't remember it very well, because I was just a little girl, but there was. I can remember my mother working to sell war bonds and for the Red Cross and all that stuff. Just like we did in the Second World War. I was a Gray Lady, by the way, in the Second World War, worked out at Fort Knox.

C.C.:

And what did you do?

L.F.:

Work in the hospital, wrote letters for soldiers who couldn't write, and brought them supplies that they needed, played games with them and that kind of thing. 22:00It was under the Red Cross auspices.

C.C.:

A minute ago, you had talked about an Interurban Railroad. What was that?

L.F.:

That was, I don't know exactly, but it was another way to get town. I know it wasn't as convenient as the train, though, for my father, because that went right by our property.

C.C.:

Was it an actual railroad that had, like it went through Saint Matthew's? Or, what would the route have been?

L.F.:

You're asking me something that goes back to when I was about seven years old, and I can't really remember. But I do remember having an automobile while we were still living in the country, when I was pre-teen, because sometimes we 23:00didn't move back until after school started, and we'd drive.

C.C.:

The reason I ask about the interurban-

L.F.:

Interurban.

C.C.:

Yes, did it phase out shortly after?

L.F.:

I guess. I don't know when it did. I don't know when that did. My memory is not the greatest. That's why I told you I wasn't going to ...

C.C.:

Let me hear about your afternoons in the country.

L.F.:

You know, when you asked me how I spent my time, there was a great big tree by the house, a big maple tree. It was my tree. Well, I think Dann had some railroad spikes that he put in the trunk, so he could climb up, but I had my swing there, and my sand pile. And it had one of those benches all around the trunk of the tree. You've seen those.

L.F.:

And the sections -- oh, this is so silly -- the sections of this board thing that was around it, you know, it was made out of wood, each one was a different room in my imagination, and I was running a hotel. I had a little iron stove. I think you've seen them, because they're popular as replicas, as antiques now. I would make mud pies and things on them. I think I even did cook some... I can remember going in the garden and picking raspberries, and making sugar and water and raspberries that were cooking on that little stove.

L.F.:

Each of these sections of this bench was a room, as I said. I would make up furniture and stuff for it. I spent a great deal of time under that tree, all 25:00day in the summer.

C.C.:

Well, you didn't have too much else to do-

L.F.:

I didn't. And I didn't have [crosstalk 00:25:09]

C.C.:

... in terms of radio or television.

L.F.:

No, and I didn't have too many people to play with, my age, because I was the youngest in the two families. See, the News lived in the big house. They had two daughters who were older. Dann was seven and a half years older than I.

C.C.:

And you were about seven at this time?

L.F.:

Well, we stayed there. I think I learned to walk in the country, not in that house. They rented a place to stay, before the little cottage was built. But from my earliest childhood, until I went to camp when I was about 13.

C.C.:

You had mentioned the trip to Toronto. Did your family travel a lot?

L.F.:

I don't know what you'd call a lot. They didn't, really, because they were in the country in the summer. And that was a break in the year's routine, I guess. They didn't travel a great deal.

L.F.:

Is this on?

L.F.:

The year before I went to college, that summer, I went with my father and mother to California. That was a major trip. We had a lovely trip, that summer. And then my father died that fall, after that trip. I was 18 when he died.

C.C.:

I'm curious, if you're comfortable talking about this, because we had talked about it on the phone, what part you all may have played in the beginnings of 27:00some of the more social things that have happened in Louisville. Or, did you find certain doors open or closed to you?

L.F.:

I really wasn't conscious of antisemitism. I was very fortunate in that respect, I'm sure. We belonged to the Standard Club.

C.C.:

Now that, was it always the Standard Club, or that was it's [inaudible 00:27:42] name?

L.F.:

There was a city club and a country club. The city club, I think was on Third and Kentucky.

C.C.:

That was the Standard Club, also?

L.F.:

Yes. And then the country club was on the Water Company property on River Road? You know. First there was, I think there was a small golf club, originally, but 28:00mostly it was, the big building was by the swimming pool, which was the old city reservoir. It was the most marvelous swimming pool you can imagine.

C.C.:

It must have been huge.

L.F.:

It was huge. And then that burned, and they enlarged what had been the small golf club, and that became the club building.

C.C.:

Do you remember any dates for any of these things?

L.F.:

I know that the tennis courts at the golf club building were built by WPA workers, so that sort of dates it.

C.C.:

So, the club was in existence when you-

L.F.:

Long before that.

C.C.:

... when you all moved here?

L.F.:

I guess so.

C.C.:

And then the city club, that phased out.

L.F.:

Yes.

C.C.:

Then, I know they moved the Standard Club facilities, what, in the early '50s?

L.F.:

Margaret's wedding reception was at the old Standard Club on River Road, and when was that? I'm terrible with dates, but she's been married 28 years.

C.C.:

That's put it at '47.

L.F.:

Yeah.

C.C.:

Not quite, about '49. Okay. Well, Pendennis, I know was-

L.F.:

In existence then.

C.C.:

Right. Was your family a member of Pendennis?

L.F.:

No. They had no Jewish members, although my sister-in-law's great-uncle was one of the founders.

C.C.:

A Jewish man?

L.F.:

Yeah, Lee Bloom, Levi Bloom.

C.C.:

That's incredible. Did you ever hear how the policy for exclusion came about?

L.F.:

No.

C.C.:

Is the Bloom family still in town?

L.F.:

No, I think they've more or less died out.

C.C.:

Let them decide.

L.F.:

The summer before I was married, I went right from college to Europe, with my 31:00mother. And in those days, you didn't go for a couple weeks. We went there for three months and did the Grand Tour.

C.C.:

Yes, when I was asking about travels, I wondered if you had gone abroad.

L.F.:

As a child. Well, that trip, I came home really, just a month before I got married.

C.C.:

You went by boat?

L.F.:

Oh, yes. Well, there was no other way to go.

C.C.:

No, there wouldn't have been. Did you enjoy that?

L.F.:

Oh, it was marvelous. I mean, fresh out of college it was... I remember it in great detail, that trip.

C.C.:

Europe must have been a very exciting place, at that time.

L.F.:

Yeah. And since I married, we've really been very privileged, as far as travel is concerned. We've had many wonderful trips. We had a great trip abroad with the Bycks in, let's see, I guess '57 maybe, or somewhere along in there, to 32:00Europe. And then, when my husband retired he took a very early retirement, we...

L.F.:

... the Council of Jewish Women. My Jewish activities centered mostly around Adath Israel. My mother had been president of the sisterhood, so I became active in the sisterhood as soon as I was married, and eventually became president, just about the time of Mother's death. Then I think my first activity, which got 33:00me interested in Council, well I was interested.

L.F.:

I had think I'd always belong, but the first activity that I remember in Council was working in the psychiatric ward at General Hospital. I think Council did a marvelous job, then. It was the first time volunteers had been used in the psychiatric ward, and we had lots of very good training under Doctor Keller, before we started that program.

C.C.:

About what year would you say that would have been?

L.F.:

That's where I'm so bad. I guess about, in the '50s.

C.C.:

What kinds of things did the volunteers do?

L.F.:

We put on parties for the people in the psychiatric ward, and just mostly recreation for them.

C.C.:

Did you ever have any particularly interesting experiences while you were there?

L.F.:

Oh, it was all interesting. I remember talking to one catatonic patient who never had opened his mouth the whole time he'd been there, and got him to say something, and I felt as though I had accomplished wonders. I always identified with one patient. I think everybody does. And I usually found out that he'd been somebody that had cut his wife up in little pieces or something like that.

C.C.:

They had real severe cases?

L.F.:

Yes, they did.

C.C.:

And they let the volunteers work with the severe ones? Interesting. What other 35:00organizations were going on at that time? Let's take it back before the '50s, if you can.

L.F.:

You mean in the hospital?

C.C.:

No, just along with, there was Council and the sisterhoods, and what else was in Louisville?

L.F.:

You mean the Jewish organizations?

C.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

L.F.:

I really don't know. I'm sure there were like, the B'nai Brith women, and there were other longtime organizations going on, but I wasn't affiliated with them.

C.C.:

When were you president?

L.F.:

Of the sisterhood?

C.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

L.F.:

I guess in the '40s, or... No, I couldn't have been that young.

C.C.:

Well, you said Louise married in about '49.

L.F.:

Margaret, you mean my daughter.

C.C.:

I mean [crosstalk 00:36:15]. So, it's possible.

L.F.:

Yes, I guess it was.

C.C.:

Would it be the early '40s?

L.F.:

About the mid-'40s, I would say.

C.C.:

Was the Temple involved in any of the war effort?

L.F.:

Oh, yes.

C.C.:

What were some of the things that they [crosstalk 00:36:41]

L.F.:

Are you talking about, which war?

C.C.:

No, the Second World War, when you were active in sisterhood.

L.F.:

I think that I was active after that period, shortly after that period. That dates it better, late '40s I guess.

C.C.:

I just wonder what kinds of projects you may know about, that they did.

L.F.:

If I could just remember. I think that was probably one thing that unified the Jewish community.

C.C.:

The Second World War.

L.F.:

The war effort, because a lot of things were done through the center.

C.C.:

Which was the old YMHA?

L.F.:

Yeah.

C.C.:

Then, you feel before the Second World War, there were various factions?

L.F.:

Yes, I think so. And the man that's credited, I think, with unifying the Jewish community is Charlie Morris.

C.C.:

And what was his-

L.F.:

I think he was the first chairman of the Federation.

C.C.:

He started the Federation?

L.F.:

I don't know whether he started it, but he must have been one of the pioneers.

C.C.:

What was the purpose of the Federation? Do you know?

L.F.:

Well, I guess very much as it is today.

C.C.:

The services that they offer?

L.F.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

C.C.:

I'm interested in what you think the various factions of the Jewish community were involved in. In other words, there was a Zionist group perhaps, and what else?

L.F.:

Well, not having been really affiliated with them, it's hard for me to say. I know that there were lots of classes at the old YMHA, for refugees from Europe, during the Hitler period, and Americanization processes that, you know, teaching them to be good Americans.

C.C.:

And before that, people just sort of went their own way? I'm trying to get a 39:00feeling of what it was like to be in the Jewish community, before World War II.

L.F.:

Well, it's very hard to remember. I think that the old YMHA was very instrumental in Americanizing the newcomers to this country.

C.C.:

But other than that, before that, there just... People were concerned with their everyday lives?

L.F.:

Yeah. Well, you know the program of the YMHA. They had basketball teams, and they had all kinds of activities, just like they do now. Well, I don't guess they have a basketball team now, but anyway.

C.C.:

They did. Who would they play?

L.F.:

Oh, I can't remember that either.

C.C.:

The Y, maybe the YMCA?

L.F.:

Maybe so, and maybe they had teams within the group. I really don't remember.

C.C.:

Were there the Jewish social clubs then, that there are now, you know, for the teenagers?

L.F.:

At the YMHA?

C.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

L.F.:

Yes, I guess there were. I don't remember belonging.

C.C.:

Or your children?

L.F.:

No, they didn't either.

C.C.:

Because now, they have all these clubs at the Center.

L.F.:

Yeah.

L.F.:

... can remember Doctor Enelow, who preceded Doctor Rauch, of course very dimly, because I was just a little girl. When I was growing up we certainly assimilationists, if there is such a word. We always celebrated Hanukkah and 41:00Christmas, had a Christmas tree for as far back as I can remember and...

L.F.:

... collect my thoughts a minute. I felt no antisemitism, growing up, but I must have felt something because I had a hesitancy about talking about things that were Jewish with my non-Jewish friends and workers. During the Gray Lady period, they would talk about their church, and I often didn't talk about my temple, because I was hesitant, which was ridiculous. And I can see myself growing in my 42:00Jewish identity, because I would have no hesitancy now.

L.F.:

I think this comes about from feeling much more secure, as an American Jew, than I did earlier in my life. And when my children married, although one of them married into a reformed family, they weren't as assimilated as we were. And the other child married into a conservative family, who certainly weren't. And then, as their children grew up into Sunday School age, I think the religious school has given them a greater sense of Jewish identity than we got.

L.F.:

And it was the children who revolted against celebrating Christmas, for instance. And through them I have learned a great deal about my religion, and feel a greater pride in my Jewish heritage than I had as a child.

C.C.:

Then you feel that Rabbi Enelow, who was a proponent of assimilationism, and Rauch, who carried it on, was not downplaying Judaism?

L.F.:

Well, they never downplayed Judaism, but they just didn't give us the-

C.C.:

Well, yeah, that might be the wrong word.

L.F.:

... the pride that we should have had in our religion.

C.C.:

It was more the facts, the history, almost like history facts, without then the feelings that went with it.

L.F.:

Right, right.

C.C.:

Was this true in most of the other religious centers that existed at the time, the other temples and synagogues? Do you know?

L.F.:

No, I really don't. I couldn't say.

C.C.:

It was something that may have just been at Adath Israel?

L.F.:

Or it just might have been with me. I don't know.

C.C.:

Do you have any feelings about why this particular philosophy of assimilation was emphasized?

L.F.:

Yes. I think it was a broad thing. I think that in the beginning, when Jewish 45:00people came to this country, the first thing that happened was they wanted to be assimilated. In those days, America was the melting pot. And now, I think we've come to realize that all the different groups that have come to this country have their own culture to add to our culture, and that it's important. And now we feel that those cultures shouldn't be lost in a melting pot, they should be sustained, that we can live together but still not forget our backgrounds. And that would contribute even more to our American way of life.

L.F.:

... and we were quite, quite religious. Reformed Jews, but very... They were 46:00proud of their Judaism and were very observant, more so than my mother's family. I think my mother's family were very much like I was brought up, where their religion didn't mean as much to them. As I say, Mother was president of the sisterhood, but that didn't mean she was a truly religious person. I can remember her saying that she wished she had more faith.

C.C.:

Did your family keep kosher?

L.F.:

No. Never, as far back as I know.

C.C.:

Did many of the families that you knew?

L.F.:

No, none of them, in fact. And one interesting thing, I think, is with that kind of background, one of my grandsons has reverted, and is keeping kosher, which is 47:00a very difficult thing to do, coming from a reformed home. And I think this started when he was 16. He took a philosophy course from Rabbi Kling. And you know Rabbi Kling has a great way with young people. This is when it started. Well, I thought when he went to college, that would be the end of it. No, indeed. Kept kosher all through college. And the strange thing about it is, this is the boy that's getting married next week, he's marrying a Catholic girl.

C.C.:

... feel you've been very modest about your volunteer work, because I know you've been extremely active over the years. I wonder if we could go back and talk a little more about that.

L.F.:

Well, I think I've already talked about my work in the League and working for 48:00the United Way, but it seems that the theme that's run through my volunteer work is togetherness, in stressing the things that unite people rather than their differences. I was on the Board of the Conference of Christians and Jews, and was one of the Jewish co-chairmen. And I was a commissioner on the Human Rights Commission. And that was a very great experience in my life.

L.F.:

I was Chairman of the Housing Division, and I worked very hard for the open house and ordinance. And I made wonderful friends on the commission. And then 49:00later I was Chairman of the Council on Religion and Race. And I met a great many like-minded people in that group, which was a great experience for me.

C.C.:

And in the League, did you have any particular projects that you worked on?

L.F.:

Yes. I can remember way back, working on invasion of privacy, that the League was studying at that time. And I was Vice President of the League for a while. 50:00Afterwards, I mean later on in my life, when I had had more experience in community work, I was asked to talk about my experiences on the commission for the League, and that sort of thing.

C.C.:

I feel you seem to have been giving of your time and effort for a good, what, 40 years now?

L.F.:

Yes. I think I have all my life. I've also been active on the Louisville Fund. You know, it's hard to remember everything.

C.C.:

What's the one project that you really think was the most beneficial for you?

L.F.:

The Human Relations Commission.

C.C.:

... some of the other women who worked with you? Did you find that a lot of the Jewish women were involved, also?

L.F.:

Well, they were, I just mentioned the Tercentenary Celebration. Of course, there were a lot of Jewish women involved in that.

C.C.:

And what was that.

L.F.:

Well, it was a great celebration of the 300th anniversary of Jews in this country.

C.C.:

What date would that have been?

L.F.:

It was in '54. Mae Perley wrote a play called The Quilt, that we put on, that was really a lovely thing. That was put on as part of that celebration. You 52:00asked me about, were Jewish women involved in the other activities. Well, of course there were many Jewish women who worked on the Community Chest, and a good many on the Louisville Fund. And the work that I did through Council, of course a great many were involved in, like the General Hospital. But there weren't that many on the Commission, or I don't think any of them were on the Council of Religion and Race with me.

C.C.:

You're almost a forerunner, because there are women in those areas now.

L.F.:

Oh, sure. Sure.

C.C.:

But it seemed then, from what you're saying, that most of the women who were active, were active more in Jewish organizations-

L.F.:

That's right.

C.C.:

... rather than community oriented groups.

L.F.:

Well, there were both. I don't say that I was a forerunner.

C.C.:

Who else were, maybe?

L.F.:

You mean names?

C.C.:

Uh-huh (affirmative).

C.C.:

I'd like to go back a little bit, and talk about when you were at Collegiate, about the socializing with your classmates. You had mentioned a tea, but I wondered, is there anything else, such as the Deb Balls, that you were either a part of, or maybe not a part of.

L.F.:

No, I wasn't a part of them. We weren't invited to the Debutante Balls. When I mentioned the city club, the Standard Club, some of my friends had the 54:00equivalent of a Deb Ball. It was just a, more like a dance. You know, several of them would get together and have a teenage party at the club.

C.C.:

Do you remember who any of these gals were?

L.F.:

Yes. One of them was Mildred Starr. She later was Mrs. A. B. Loveman. Another was Carolyn Sluss. She later was Mrs. James [Drautman 00:54:41]. And my sister-in-law, Mary Helen Adler, later Mrs. Dann Byck. There was Lilly Bell Sable, who was later Mrs. James Levy. Then, another friend, Laura Newberger was 55:00later Mrs. S. T. Fish.

C.C.:

Who were some of their escorts?

L.F.:

The boys that I remember were, by and large, the men they married.

C.C.:

That's very interesting. Who was your escort?

L.F.:

Bill and I started dating when I was 16.

C.C.:

I want to thank you so much. We've covered a lot of ground, and got an awful lot of interesting facts here. I appreciate your time. We've had a long morning, this morning. Thank you very much.

L.F.:

You're welcome.

C.C.:

In a subsequent conversation with Mrs. Flarsheim, I asked her something that I 56:00neglected in the beginning of the interview, and that is why her family chose to come to Louisville from Atlanta. She said that, evidently, her recollection was that it was because it was good business opportunity here.