Margaret Mossen:
Interviewer for today is Margaret Barsham Mossen and I am talking to Mrs. Louise
Clout and today is August 2, 1977. Louise would you give your full name and your date and place of birth and present address?Louise Clout:
Louise Myers Clout, born 2nd and Burnett, Louisville, Kentucky, February 20th,
1910. Presently living at 2637 Landor Avenue 40205.M.M.:
Okay now, I'm just going to let you talk about going back to your ancestors that
you know about, and their coming to Louisville.L.C.:
Well, I remember my mother always telling about her father having landed here on
the 4th of July when he was 16 years of age, which would make it 1846, and he always called that his American birthday. He came here because he had uncles here and my grandmother came, I think-M.M.:
Where did he come from?
L.C.:
He came from Bavaria. My grandmother came here and was brought here by an aunt
named Tante [Schnebergur 00:01:51]. Mama always tells too how they met, and I suspect the reformed Jews at that time sat separate, because Mama said that he saw my grandmother in the balcony with her aunt and they flirted. And they met. They were married in, I believe it was 1854, and they celebrated their diamond wedding here also. And soon after the diamond wedding my grandfather passed away.M.M.:
The 75th?
L.C.:
No, the 60th is diamond. Must have been 60th. That's diamond I think. My
father's mother, as near as I can remember, I was told she was born in New Albany, Indiana. And my grandfather was born here, and he often told a story that during the Civil War his mother had a little dry good store, down on West Market, and the Union soldiers would comes in and they would threaten to take the merchandise off the shelf. He said, he had a gun, he'd get his gun out and he'd try to protect her. His father supposedly left for the gold rush of 1849 and he never came back. So that's as much as we know about him.M.M.:
Do you know where they were from?
L.C.:
They were from Germany. And my mother's mother was from Alsace-Lorraine. When I
happened to be looking through the birthday book one day, and it really hit me when I saw that Grandpa Myers was born exactly a hundred years before my son. And I mean, I had never, you know, realized that. I happened to be looking through the book one day. My father was born on Sixth Street between Broadway and Chestnut, and my mother was born on the corner of Seventh and Chestnut. And after they were married, their first home was on Second Street near Breckenridge. None of those homes are still standing, and I can't find any of the pictures.L.C.:
When I was a child, we lived at Second and Burnett, and that second, third, and
fourth, in that area. And south Louisville was where most of the Jewish people resided at that time. I mean, that was one settlement of Jewish people. Most of us, I think, around our age attended the Cochran School. At that time, the high schools were not coed. I went to Louisville Girl's High. And as far as my parents backgrounds are concerned, my father went on the road. He was a hat drummer in those days. He wanted to work his way through medical school. So he was on the road as a drummer, they called them in those days. And then he came back.M.M.:
Is that a salesman?
L.C.:
Yeah. That's a salesman. And apparently he earned enough so that he could go to
medical school. And he graduated in 1898, and he won the first honors in his class. I have his medal, which I-M.M.:
At University of Louisville?
L.C.:
Well, it was a... No, it was... at that time there were four, five schools. It
was before the University of Louisville. Called the Kentucky Medical School. It was one of the five or so many that consolidated later into the University of Louisville. And as soon as he got out of medical school, he went into the Spanish-American War. And he had a furlough over Thanksgiving of 1898. So he came home and he and my mother were married. And in those days, they could take their wives to Cuba. So they went to Cuba and they were down there, and I think they came back the end of 1899 or 1900. And my brother, my oldest brother, was born in February of 1900. My mother had gone to Cincinnati and had graduated before her marriage from the College of Music. And she taught some music even before she married. Then after my father died, she taught music for many, many years. During the war-M.M.:
Was your father one of the first Jewish doctors in Louisville?
L.C.:
Well, he was, I would guess, one of the first Jewish doctors. And he brought I
think the first Jewish baby in the Jewish hospital at Floyd and Kentucky. And he and Dr. Edwin Solomon are the only two Jewish doctors that have been president of the Jefferson County Medical Society. My father, I believe, was in 1907, and Dr. Solomon, oh, I think in the 60s.L.C.:
Both of my parents were very active. My father was on the board of the temple at
the time that they passed resolution to buy Grand and move from Sixth and Broadway. He was on the board at that time. And then the little book that I had, I don't know where it is now, but he was one of the members on the board that signed to... They decided they'd move and they were empowered to look for Grand. That's when they bought the property on Third between York and Breckenridge. Then he was an usher. I noticed in the program where he was an usher on the Friday night Dedicatory service.L.C.:
He remained active. Then when World War One came, he was head of the medical
division that went to France. And he was medical head of the hospital at Remoncourt, France. He also establish convalescent care for soldiers. And as I say, during that period he did as much as he could in the Jewish community. He did quite a bit of work for the sick patients that were known to the... at that time it was called the Jewish... not the Jewish Welfare, I don't know. No, it was called the Jewish Welfare Federation, established Jewish Social Service Agency. And he was active on temple committees. But as I say, he didn't live long after the war. He was only back four years before he passed away.L.C.:
Now my mother remained a very active member of the temple. She was... well, my
brothers used to tease her and say she lit the everlasting light. I don't know if they're going to bleep that out or not. But she was down there and she was on the music committee. And when World War One came and the men were not able to be there on Saturday mornings in the choir, she started playing the piano and she played the piano each summer for other 40 years for the temple. She-M.M.:
They used to have a men's choir?
L.C.:
Well, no, but they had men in the choir. Then they decided, I think during World
War One, that they'd do away with the choir in the summer. So she played. She also spend a great deal of time, this I think was right after the war. She directed a cantata called The Pillar of Fire. And I hope when we start working on the archives we can find a picture that was taken of the cast, of the people that were in that cantata. It was really something. And as I say, her life was really tied up with the temple and her music.L.C.:
As a child, my brothers and I both went to Sunday School. The boys belonged, at
that time they called it the junior congregation. And for a short while I think they had a Scout troop that I attended at temple. I don't think they had it very long.M.M.:
What are your brothers' names?
L.C.:
My oldest brother was Sidney Jr. He passed away in 1959. And my other brother
was Bernhard. He was named after my mother's father, but everybody knew him by the name of Bunny.M.M.:
Oh.
L.C.:
You knew Bunny. So I'm the only one left. I was the baby. They used to always
call me Baby, but I'm getting to be an old lady now [laughing 00:12:08]. I, as I say, I went through and I was confirmed. My mother and father were confirmed at the old temple at Sixth and Broadway. And they were married by Rabbi Moses, who came here... I forget. He was before Rabbi Enloe I believe.M.M.:
What was your mother's name?
L.C.:
My mother's name was Daisy Hess. H-E-double S. One of the things that is real
hard for me to accept, momma was one of 13. My mother was one of five, and there is not one person to carry on any of the family, on either side. My cousin Joann had a brother, William Ted, and he passed away and he had a daughter. And all that are left are daughters. My mother's family, the brothers that she had that had children, they're all gone. There's not a one. I said, both families, they're old families in Louisville, they're all... as I said, they just died off. It's unusual. You know, really, you don't hear that too often. There are other Hess's here, but they're not the same fam- I mean, they're not related at all that we can find.L.C.:
Then my activity in the Jewish community, as I say. Then I went to college at
the University of Illinois. And I was very active in the Hillel Foundation. And I was secretary of that organization. And in my senior year, they always had a plaque for the outstanding Jewish students on the campus, and I was very proud that year because I was one of eight chosen that had done so much outstanding work for the Hillel Foundation.L.C.:
Then I began to work. And of course I didn't find a lot of time to spend on
extracurricular things, so I was sort of out of activities in the Jewish community for quite a while, except for the fact that I spent many of my working days at the Jewish Social Service. I worked ten years for the Jewish Social Service Agency as a counselor. And since I've retired, I've gotten active. I do quite a bit of work for the temple. But there was a period in my life when I just wasn't able to.M.M.:
Well, what was your first job when you started?
L.C.:
Well, when I first got out of Illinois, I worked as a... I worked for the, it
was at that time called the Kentucky Welfare. It's now the Kentucky... I mean, it was called the Kentucky Conference of Social Workers. Now the Kentucky Welfare. And a Mr. Walter Belknap of the Belknap company gave his time and his money. And his interest was in getting a resource file of any social agencies in the state of Kentucky. And he used to go around all over the state at that time and bring information back. And I would work in the office and compile a brochure. And at that time about the only agencies that were available in small towns were luncheon clubs, men's clubs, churches. There were no organized agencies to help people.L.C.:
And then I went to General Hospital and at that time it was the old city
hospital. I was in the social service department. Then I went back to the University of Louisville for a year and got a one year masters in sociology and social work. Then I went five years and worked at the children's hospital in social work. And I had a few other short time things. And then I worked ten years for Jewish Social Service after I'd gotten my second year of work and gotten my master of science in social work.M.M.:
Was your work mostly in case work or was it-
L.C.:
Yeah, my work was case work. After working at the Jewish Social Service, I took
a 10 week period and went back to school to finish the second year. And then I went to work, it was the old Family Service at that time. It's now the Family and Children's Agency. And I worked for them for... from 1953 and until 19 and 69. At that time I did mostly what we called intake work. The first interview work when people would come to the agency. And then they would either be assigned to a continuing counselor, or they would be helped enough that they wouldn't have to come back. And there were a couple times during that period when I was in charge of work with the older people. And in 1966, I was loaned to the Senior House at that time, to be the counselor for the older people. And I did that for three years. And then when the executive left, they asked me to take over. And I did for three years. I was the executive director of Senior House.L.C.:
And since my retirement, I have been real active, as I say. I've been able to
get active in things at temple, on committees and all. And I've been quite active on committees for the aging. But I haven't been well, and I've given most of that up since the first of this year. However, I have worked last summer, I worked, and this summer. I'm still working till the 19th of August. I'm the receptionist at the [Summerseen 00:18:43] program. And my boss is 26 years old. And I'm enjoying it.M.M.:
It keeps you young.
L.C.:
Those kids, they're just the cutest. They're just darling. And I'm in the
office. I had charge of the phones and message taking and information giving. And it's really quite an interesting and rewarding 11 weeks. I wouldn't want to work, I couldn't work all the time anymore.M.M.:
But that is 40 hours a week.
L.C.:
Huh?
M.M.:
It is 40 hours a week.
L.C.:
It is 40 hours a week and I'm quite proud to say last summer I didn't miss one
day. And the young ones are in and out constantly. This summer I had to miss a day. And the following work day, they begged me to go home. But I did make those few hours up. But they're in and out constantly, and I think "Oh, how different it is."M.M.:
They don't know what a full time job is.
L.C.:
They don't. They're in and out. In and out. Some of them are so nervous they
can't sit at a desk.M.M.:
Well, let's go back. You skipped over your childhood very quickly.
L.C.:
Um-hmm [affirmative] During my childhood, the war I think interrupted my
childhood very much. When the war came, we broke up our home. And we moved to Mississippi to Camp Shelby, Mississippi. And we lived there at Camp Shelby.M.M.:
Because your father was stationed there?
L.C.:
He was stationed there and my oldest brother ran off at age 17 and went in the
service. And prior to my father going in the service, he was an examiner, you know, for the board. You know, he had to examine the boys for the board.M.M.:
The draft board?
L.C.:
For the draft board. And even though he was over aged, he said he was going. So
I always feel my people might have been too patriotic for the family, because really and truly I think it really did really disrupt us. Both my brother and my father and two uncles went to France. They were able one time over there to meet. We have a picture of them where they taken together. That's Joanna's father, you know. And Uncle Melvin, who I don't know if you knew. You knew [Corrine 00:21:26].M.M.:
Sure, yeah.
L.C.:
Her husband. The four of them, they met over there. So my brother was 17 when he
went, I think my father must have been about 46. So then the winter of 1918, when they both went over. My father said, "When do you want to go back up north this winter?" My mother had a cousin in Canton, Mississippi. He said "Why don't you all go over there and spend the winter." It was near... you know, it was south and that. So we went over there and we had a lovely winter except for the flu epidemic. We lived in a southern inn. And as I recall, I don't think I attended school more than a week or two because the flu epidemic came.L.C.:
And then I became very ill, and the doctors, I think there were only two doctors
in the town, because some of them had gone to war and one of them had died. So my mother would call old Dr. Jake Flexner. That was Dr. Mark Flexner's father. And he would prescribe over the phone to the druggist. And the winter went on and on and finally he said to my mother as soon as you think Louise is better, you better come back to Louisville. Well, by the that time it was spring of 1919, so we came back. And just when we were getting packed up, my mother got a cablegram that my father was coming back. So that was I think around April or May of 1919. So we came back.L.C.:
And then my childhood was spent back then on Fourth and [Galbret 00:23:10] We
moved to the [Reeser Place 00:23:11]. And there were a lot of Jewish people lived out in that area then. And as I say-M.M.:
Were your friends and your parents friends exclusively Jewish at that time?
L.C.:
No. I don't think they ever were.
M.M.:
Or mostly so?
L.C.:
Mine never... theirs never were and mine never were. They always were active in
both the communities. During World War One, there was a club here called the Khaki Club. And it was across from the Brown Hotel, where the Commonwealth building sits now. My mother was very active and worked there, and that was not exclusively for Jewish people. She did work for the Jewish Welfare Board. And before we went to Mississippi, every Sunday night boys would come to the house at Second and Burnett from the cab. In fact, I met a doctor and his wife who had been on one of the Jefferson County Medical cruises a few years ago. And when they came back, they said to me "Do you remember Lieutenant Frankel?" They said "He remembers you." I was just a little girl, and he would come in from camp and I thought he was so marvel... you know.M.M.:
Was this Fort Knox?
L.C.:
No, this was Camp Taylor in those days, out Preston. So they said "He remembers
he was at your home nearly every Sunday night." I said "I remember. I was just a little thing. I used to pester him to climb up on his lap." Well, he remembered my family. He lives in Cincinnati. He's a dentist.L.C.:
But my parents were always active in both communities, Jewish and non-Jewish.
And my father's clientele and his patients were from the cream of the Jewish and the non-Jewish community. I have many nice recollections of my childhood.M.M.:
Was he a GP?
L.C.:
He was a GP until about the last two years of his life, and then he did so much
obstetrics. And when he became ill in 1922, he found out he had diabetes. He limited his work to obstetrics then. And my mother was active in many Jewish things, as I said, and also non-Jewish. She was the second president of the Jefferson Post Auxiliary here after the war.M.M.:
The American Legion?
L.C.:
American Legion, that's right.
M.M.:
Was that unusual?
L.C.:
You mean for Jewish people?
M.M.:
Uh-huh [affirmative]
L.C.:
Well, I don't know. It's hard for me to remember that, Margaret. I know they
always were very well accepted. In fact, my father used to tell, that I can remember when it happened, that he was asked to join the Pendennis Club. Because he had so many, you know, real, real patients that really just worshiped him. But he wouldn't join because he knew they didn't want Jewish people. He wouldn't join. But I don't know if it was so. I think there were many Jewish people that where active in both communities at that time.L.C.:
But I can't tell you. But my life's always been that way. Not only here but when
I went to the University of Illinois. I was in the Jewish sorority, but I was also active in non-Jewish things too. And I think that's continued throughout my adult life. I mean, I never deny I'm Jewish. People know I'm Jewish. In fact, I would say very little discrimination. I feel I'm very lucky, because I've heard people tell me, you know, how much discrimination they felt through their lives.L.C.:
In fact, I had an incident, in fact I feel that I noticed it more. The last
couple of weeks something happened. There was someone in office that was working. Was very immature. Wasn't doing the job. And the other people could see it. I could see it, but there was nothing I could do about it. But anyway, this girl one day, she didn't think I heard, but I heard her tell someone. She said "Well, you know, she's Jewish."L.C.:
So when I had her alone a few days after that, I said "I'm real sorry you feel
that way about Jewish people." I said "That girl could have been, you know, any denomination and have acted that way." So then she went on to tell me she had this one and that one that were her friends, as they do sometime. And I sit there, I hope she goes to the University of Kentucky. I said "I hope someday you'll have a chance to go to the Jewish [shewtalkwa 00:28:50]." I said "The rabbis do go throughout the state. I don't know if they're coming there or not. But I hope you'll be able to go and find out really what Judaism is about. And I hope you don't think all Jewish people are alike and I hope if you would like sometime when you're home again and you would like to go to services and meet some Jewish people and go with me, I'd be glad to take you."L.C.:
So that's that. But I mean, really and truly, I've been real fortunate through
me life that I haven't, you know, I haven't had it thrown at me. Maybe it's been there. I guess, you know, it may have been. But I feel that I've had a real... I've been real lucky through my life.M.M.:
You went to Cochran, and then you went to?
L.C.:
Then I went to Girl's High. At that time, as I say, my father died and we staid
living down in south Louisville. Now by that time, many of the Jewish people were beginning to the Highlands. But we didn't move up until about 1929.M.M.:
You were still in, was it Reeser Place?
L.C.:
Yeah, we lived in Reeser Place. And then we moved to the Highlands. But by that
time I was in college, so I did not go to Atherton, and that's where a lot of them, you know, when they began... a lot of them moved up, the girls went to Atherton. So I would say some of my friends moved away from where I lived, and I kept up with them some. At least, you know, on weekends they'd have slumber parties and things like that. But during the week I lost track of many of friends at that time. And then as I say, I went to college, and when I came back I began to have a different group of friends. And as I say, some of them were Jewish and some of them were non-Jewish. And then-M.M.:
Did you basically go with a group, I mean in the evening, socially that was Jewish.
L.C.:
Yes. Uh-huh, yeah. Oh, I mainly remember a group of friends I would say
[inaudible 00:31:12] were Jewish.M.M.:
When did you get married?
L.C.:
1938. And I heard he was from Germany, living in Indiana with his aunt and
uncle. And I happened to meet him. My mother had attended a girl's school when she was younger. And her home [inaudible 00:32:32].[Degraded audio until 00:34:37] And in those days there were many, many boarding schools in Louisville. And [inaudible 00:32:32] a small family in Indiana. Crawfordsville, Indiana. And [inaudible 00:32:32].M.M.:
Was this a Jewish?
L.C.:
Hmm?
M.M.:
It was a Jewish school, though?
L.C.:
No. This was [inaudible 00:32:32] run by a Mrs. Anna Knowles. My mother would go
home with her. No, it wasn't a Jewish school. So even with a child, my mother [inaudible 00:32:32]. We've often thought because of the [inaudible 00:32:37] in my father's side, not so much in my mother's, but in my father's side, I never knew the [inaudible 00:32:48]. A great friend of mine [inaudible 00:32:53]. We were talking, I guess. My father was with me. He said well, you know [inaudible 00:33:02] And he said I passed you when your grandpa was a little boy and had that shotgun off his shoulder. [inaudible 00:33:21] because my father was the oldest, he was Alfred Sidney Johnston Myers. Then the next boy[inaudible 00:33:38]. And they were [inaudible 00:33:44]. And their neighbors [inaudible 00:33:53] Nancy and [inaudible 00:33:57] Robinson. [inaudible 00:34:01] at Sixth and Magnolia. That's your uncle [inaudible 00:34:05] was named that. So even in those days after [inaudible 00:34:11] So then what led to [inaudible 00:34:27]. My mother would not [inaudible 00:34:31] his daddy [inaudible 00:34:36].L.C.:
And one time when we were going up [inaudible 00:34:37] and gasoline coupons for
a year. Then another friend wanted to give hims something and had Bitner make two beautiful walnut book cases. And my mother gave one of them to the temple when Dr. Ralph was alive and had a plaque put on it in memory of Dr. Sidney Myers. So when the temple was contemplating the move, I said to Rabbi Waller "If I can find that bookcase, can I have it?" He said sure. Well, we looked and we scoured that place. We went up in the second floor where Dr. Ralph's study was and it wasn't there. It was empty. So finally Horn said "I'm going to take you way in a back room in the basement." So we went way in the back room where books were lined up, and way in one corner was that bookcase. They had in ensuing years, they had shellacked it. And I finally brought it home and I have it here in the basement. And I expect someday to have it refinished. I mean, it's very contemporary. The lines are very beautiful. And that was a gift of another patient.L.C.:
Here is something I thought you'd be interested in. They brought that back from
Cuba. It was painted... was it 1895? Isn't that interesting?M.M.:
It's beautiful.
L.C.:
And this, my mother did oil painting. Now that was done, I mean, you know, they
I guess photographed on. But she did that.M.M.:
She tinted it.
L.C.:
The year she married. She did the painting the year she married.
M.M.:
Oh, it's lovely.
L.C.:
Now, I wanted to show you. This is so interesting.
M.M.:
I love the frame too.
L.C.:
This is interesting. This is my father's family. But the thing they should have
done was had them in the same position, but I guess they forgot it, see.M.M.:
Uh-huh [affirmative].
L.C.:
That's my father. And this is Joanna's father. Here is my father when we was
older, and this is Joanna's father. I wanted you to see this. This is behind my mother's home that sat where the Cadillac place is. That was her doll house.M.M.:
Oh.
L.C.:
She was a baby. These were her older sisters. They used to go in there and clean
it. And they had every thing that fit in there. That was my mother, the little one.M.M.:
Oh, that's too cute.
L.C.:
Isn't that cute?
M.M.:
This little one?
L.C.:
That was my mother. No, this one.
M.M.:
Here?
L.C.:
This was a niece.
M.M.:
Oh.
L.C.:
But they were almost the same age because these sisters were married before she
was born. Oh, this is my mother. The blonde one. And my mother's name, she was named after her maternal grandmother Jeanette. But when she was little, she was so fair her older sisters and brothers came to crib and they said "Doesn't she look like a little daisy?" And do you know, my mother had that name all through her life. People didn't know her name was Jeanette, but she called herself Daisy Jeanette. And here's the, from the... that was the silver wedding that they had that I told you their other wedding.L.C.:
Now here is something she kept. These are her religious instructions for the
confirmation class, May 29, 1887. Congregation Adeth Israel Temple at Sixth and Broadway, northeast corner. The Reverend Doctor Adolph Moses, Rabbi. And she and my father went through Sunday School together and they were confirmed together. This is what they taught them in those days. 14 girls, 12 boys in the class.L.C.:
And as I say, here is the picture. The temple, I believe, was 125, couldn't of
be a hundred. Must have been 110, maybe. But they made her a life member at this service. That was when Sammy Kind was president. They made mamma a life member.M.M.:
I was... that too I was thinking of, but I wasn't sure.
L.C.:
And here's my... that was me, that was my husband, that was Steve. And then
wait, I was going to show you in here. I mentioned a while ago about the past presidents of the Jefferson County Medical. My father was in 1907, and 60 years later in 1967, Edwin P. Solomon. They're the only two Jewish doctors.M.M.:
Before or since.
L.C.:
Before or since. And your folks would be interested in this, because my first
sweetheart was Stanley Flashacre. You know the Flashacres. You don't know this boy.M.M.:
No.
L.C.:
He lived across, and your folks lived catty corner. Your daddy's folks. And
Stanley is a cousin of Frank's. Well anyway, he lived across and he was my sweetheart. And that was our picture. And you know we lost track of each other. I went to... I mean, I went to college and he went to college. And after we graduated, I think it was just about the time I began going with Henry. He started taking me out again. Isn't that funny? He married a rabbi's daughter. He lives now in Detroit. And so that's about it. But I thought you'd be interested in that.M.M.:
Did they have any copies of...
L.C.:
I'll give that to the archives when I... I had some more of her things. I tell,
Mart, I have so much stuff packed in boxes. I've broken up housekeeping so many times. After my husband died, I did. And then after Steve married I sold my last small house and took this apartment. And I have gotten rid of and probably lost stuff through the years, because there are things I look for that I can't find. Now I have boxes in my locker. And I really should get them up. I'm sure there's some...M.M.:
I wondered if Aunt Vigil has some.
L.C.:
I said I want to give them that for their archives.
M.M.:
That's fantastic.
L.C.:
Uh-huh [affirmative]. I thought once that I had found her confirmation speech,
and that may be down stairs in my box. I don't know. In some of my boxes.M.M.:
Do you remember... Do you feel you had a very Jewish upbringing as far as candle
lighting and...L.C.:
Oh yeah, I always lit the candles. I still do.
M.M.:
Celebrations of the holidays and...
L.C.:
Oh yeah, always. And I went with momma every Saturday morning. I remember her
taking me. Dorothy Simon, Dorothy Freeman Simon, and her mother. She'd go with her mother. And then when she had her daughter, Louis Slung, they went. But I can always remember going. And after my father died, every Friday night we went to Vesper services all summer long. And, oh yeah, I remember that we always had the candles and we always celebrated the holidays. And I still do, I still light my candles.M.M.:
Did you have close associations with Jewish families from other congregations,
or was it more-L.C.:
Not until I went away to the university. Then I did. That's when I met people
from other wings of Judaism. But I had some friends in high school and grade school from the other congregations, but I don't think as much until I went away to the university. And that's where I met more of the Orthodox and Conservative friends that I have today.M.M.:
You weren't... The YMHA was not a central place for you as a teenager? Course,
you weren't here all that much.L.C.:
No, not very much. No, I wouldn't say it was too much. I used to go there to
some things. I had... what did I take? I took some things down there, whether it was gym or dancing. We used to go some. But it was not the center of my life like it would be today. Or like the Jewish Community Center when my boy was growing up. He went there a lot. He was in clubs and things. But no, it was not the center. And when I got to Illinois, I would say I was thrown there with more Jewish than, as I said, before I went away to school. Because even though I had some non-Jewish friends, I was more closely associated with Jewish people at the university.M.M.:
I just think you've been wonderful.
L.C.:
Well.
M.M.:
It's been so fascinating to me that I'm sure it will be to everybody.
L.C.:
I just... look, here's what they probably pointed out for her to say. 13 years,
one month, and one day. She had us say this part here, I guess. She got [sheboost 00:45:09]. That paragraph she had us say when she was 13.M.M.:
Uh-huh. What holiday is sacred to faith and gratitude?
L.C.:
Well, she must have said that in her confirmation. I guess they wrote it.
M.M.:
Uh-huh.
L.C.:
Oh, I mean I always knew... I mean, you knew my friends marvel because I know so
many Jewish... I know things about Jewish festivals and things. They'll always call and ask me, and I don't know how much of it's right, but I tell them what I know. But they think I'm an authority. It's unbelievable. No, I feel that I have a deep Jewish feeling. And I feel one of the things that's gotten me through the years that kind of ticked me off at times is because some people give you the impression if you do not... you know, if you don't believe in rituals and you don't...M.M.:
Keep our kosher lives.
L.C.:
You know, keep those things, that you don't... that you're not Jewish. And to me
this isn't true at all. I used to go with a boy, and he and his family, the only thing they had Jewish was their diet. I visited them out west. And it was getting to be near September and they wanted me to stay. I said "I got to go home. It's going to be the holidays. I got to go to temple." They didn't even, they never went inside of a temple or a synagogue. But they wouldn't eat pork and they wouldn't eat ham.L.C.:
But I mean, I still get the feeling there are a lot of people that feel that
way. That if you don't do certain ritualistic things, that you don't have a Jewish feeling. And I don't think it's true. I think there are plenty of us that have a real deep Jewish feeling and love our religion. I love all the rituals I keep. I don't keep many of them. I keep the ones I learned as child, and I try. I light my candles every Friday night. I say my [brokah 00:47:38] like I always have. I keep the holidays as closely as I can. I don't go much to temple at night on the holidays any more. I try to go during the daytime. And I like to go on Saturday mornings. I don't go much on Friday nights anymore. I guess since I don't, you know, I don't go out too much at night anymore. And, but I do like to go Saturday morning. I have some other older friends, and we always say we think we're like our mothers. You know, because Saturday morning, they always went on Saturday morning. But...M.M.:
Kept lights [crosstalk 00:48:20].
L.C.:
I feel I'm... I got a lot of Jewish feeling, you know. And I try to act and
behave right and do for others and I think that's a big part of our religion.M.M.:
Uh-huh [affirmative]. Well, again, I thank you very much.
L.C.:
Any way.
M.M.:
I'll turn this off. Your mother-
L.C.:
This geese vase, as my mother always said, gross little Myers called it, is a
ritualistic... is for ritualistic washing of the hands before you eat. It is a pewter. It's a beautiful piece. And she was 90 when she died, 68 years ago. So I don't know how old the piece can be, but it's something I value very highly. And I don't even clean it. I would love to clean the pewter, but I'm afraid to touch it. I don't want to do anything to it.M.M.:
I don't think it's that beautiful.
L.C.:
No, I've been, I even went to Kendrick's and asked them. They said just leave it
alone. Now that's brass, I think, the spigot there. Isn't it? Brass or copper. One or the other.M.M.:
Yeah.
L.C.:
Isn't that beautiful?
M.M.:
Uh-huh [affirmative]. Oh, lovely. And did they use it, what, just on Friday
nights? Or...L.C.:
I think they used before they ate all the time, because you know you're supposed
to have your hands clean before you touch food. I don't think it was just for Friday nights. I think probably in the old country they used it all the time. But we've always just had it as an ornament as long as I can remember.M.M.:
That's wonderful to have and to... well, I mean, and to know the origin of it.
L.C.:
There was one other little thing, too, I had out I wanted to show you and I
don't know where I... Oh, here it is. Dr. Ralph went to France, and he went to the town where my maternal grandmother was born in Boucesville, France. And he said that the family was well known there. And my great-grandpa's name was Alexander, and the house in that little town was still known at that time as Zander's house. So he went there, and the people that lived in it at first didn't want to let him in. And he had to show all these credentials, and he said the granddaughter is a member of my congregation and just let me come in and see the place and give me one little thing to take back. So they gave him this little porcelain boy and girl. Isn't that sweet?M.M.:
Gee, that's great that he did that.
L.C.:
That came from there. Uh-huh [affirmative]. He was sweet. Then you want to see
this book. That might have something in it of interest. I mean, just go through it in a hurry. But it will show you. I think that was the first sisterhood meeting after my father came back from World War One, and he gave... he was asked to be the speaker. I think his name's on there some place. Maybe not.M.M.:
Oh wait, [inaudible 00:51:45].
L.C.:
Maybe on the inside. I thought he was. Wasn't that the one? There's one in
there. I thought. No, that must be another one in there.M.M.:
Oh there. You-
