Interview with Mollie Kohn and Rebecca Goldstein, March 8, 1978

Interviewer:

... [Narlmony 00:00:04] working for the Jewish Oral History Project being done at the University of Louisville. Today is March 8th, 1978. And I am at the home of Molly Kohn and Rebecca Goldstein. Basically, what we are interested in is your recollections of early Louisville, your recollections of your life in Louisville, and either one of you may start.

Rebecca Goldstein:

Well she's older than I am. You want to start with your recollections or?

Molly Kohn:

My recollections start fairly early.

R.G.:

Tell him your age.

M.K.:

Even before I was walking. I was a precocious baby.

Interviewer:

Identify yourself.

M.K.:

I was born...

Interviewer:

Identify yourself on the tape.

M.K.:

I was born at First and Green. At that time it was called Green Street. Today it's Fehr or Liberty. And from there we moved to a place on 10th and Walnut and there were a lot of important, eventually became very important, Jewish people. A lot of them moved out of the city. Some went to St. Louis, some went out to Chicago, but we kept in touch with them till about the time we were 9 or 10 years old and we left the city to go to a small town in Kentucky.

M.K.:

We had a very interesting life there. There were no Jewish people there. We were the only Jewish family and two boys, two young men that opened up a store there. That's where we got most of our education.

Interviewer:

Where was this?

M.K.:

Stanford, Kentucky. But we always kept in touch with the local people and we 2:00never missed a thing. Now up to the time we went to Stanford, Kentucky we lived on 7th Street between what they called Pearl Street or Seeker Street or Grayson. So many things happened in that time.

R.G.:

And it changed.

M.K.:

And Green. It was all Jewish, all the neighborhood. There were stores there. There were people by the name of Freedman, people by the name of [Seligman 00:02:38]. There were [Laveens 00:02:41], [Blackhurst 00:02:42].

R.G.:

[Brages 00:02:44].

M.K.:

Brages, that are not here anymore.

R.G.:

Brownsteins.

M.K.:

And the Brownsteins. And even some very famous people. There was an ice company there on the other side of the street, the next block down, and at that ice company, I've forgotten the name of the ice company, but there were a row of 3:00very magnificent houses that some very substantial people lived in, people that were high in the railroad and merchants. It wasn't a ghetto section. Everyone lived very nicely even though they were storekeepers. We grew up very friendly. Everyone was very friendly and led into some very important people that are living today.

Interviewer:

Do you remember who some of those people are?

M.K.:

Well, like you had the Brownsteins. They were very fine people. A lot of these people have moved out of town. And if I remember correctly, not too far from there there was a family by the name of Stark. It was part of either the Southern Railroad or the L&N-

R.G.:

L&N.

M.K.:

-I'm not quite sure.

R.G.:

L&N Railroad and president.

M.K.:

There were people there, [Burnheims 00:04:03]. Burnheims Distilling Company. 4:00There was a member of their family lived in these houses, too. You can go all the way down. You had a Doctor [Blarvice 00:04:13] and you had a nice family of [Schneiders 00:04:18]. They were very important people today, those that are left.

M.K.:

Now, in between that time we traveled a little bit as children. We used to go here and there. My father was down in Ferguson, Pine Bluff, Arkansas. He had a store there. We maintained our store on 7th Street and we traveled back and forth. And then, another time ... Then he came back. She was born. He came back to Louisville when she was born. I was then about eight years old.

R.G.:

Who am I?

M.K.:

Huh?

R.G.:

Tell them my name.

M.K.:

Rebecca was born. He came back because he couldn't be away from his family.

M.K.:

At that time he had a partner by the name of [Yolis 00:05:09]. We didn't know his full name. Yolis the broider. I called him the broider.

R.G.:

They called him the broider.

M.K.:

Now, they have a very nice family living here in Louisville today. I don't know them because we have been away from the city for 50 years.

R.G.:

I think there is a Doctor Yolis.

M.K.:

I was away from the city over 50 years, but I came back and forth and kept in contact with my family and some of the old friends that I'm still keeping in contact with. [inaudible 00:05:40].

Interviewer:

Okay. In-

M.K.:

You asked me something in between.

Interviewer:

I was wondering, all right, if you could give more detail around that area. Green Street I believe was Liberty, but [crosstalk 00:05:57] Liberty now.

R.G.:

It's Liberty now.

Interviewer:

Its Liberty now. More information about those areas of town in which you lived 6:00and what they were like?

M.K.:

Well, I don't remember them as a small child, but I came back from Stanford. I was about seven years old, and some of these people were still living. They had little grocery stores, delicatessens, butcher shops, cobblers, shoemakers ... What did they ... There was still an ice factory there. Saloons, we called them in those days.

Interviewer:

On every corner.

M.K.:

Almost on every corner of 7th and Walnut. I think four corners had four saloons. And there were tailors, tailor shops, and quite few small merchants, swap shops, loan shops, general merchandise, and I guess I must have been in almost all of 7:00them running in and out because there were lot of the children that I played with belonging to these families.

M.K.:

They were interesting people. They were. All of them had come here way back in the, way before 1900, and had made their way. And some of the families that lived there at that time members of their families, descendants, are people of status in the community. The family of Ben Schneider for instance. The Freedmans. There are some that are pharmacists.

R.G.:

Pharmacists.

M.K.:

The Hellmans. Let's see.

R.G.:

[Sterns 00:08:04].

M.K.:

Well, he's a later comer.

R.G.:

Later comer.

M.K.:

They didn't come. He wasn't here. So many have moved away.

Interviewer:

About what time was this?

M.K.:

This was around 1907 or 1908 somewhere in there at that period. My uncle or uncles rather, Mr. Jake Brownstein and Mr. Nathan [Baer 00:08:30], they had ... Well, Uncle Nathan Baer had a tailor shop there at one time. I mean right there in that vicinity.

R.G.:

Yeah.

M.K.:

And Uncle Jake already had his own shop somewhere else. He was working for someone.

R.G.:

[Shermanski 00:08:49].

M.K.:

Shermanski?

R.G.:

Yeah.

M.K.:

I'd like to say here that our family was considered at one time, the Brownstein family and maybe the Schneider or combination there, were considered one of the 9:00largest families here in the city and they all came over here in the early, well, I won't say early, but say middle 1880s, or maybe before that. Maybe a few years before that. One brought the other. They married somebody and one of the relatives would bring them over. That's how we all got together.

M.K.:

So, our family is probably one of the oldest families of the Russian and Polish immigrants. I'm not saying ... The first ones were Germans that came down and they mostly came from Cincinnati, I think, if I remember my history right. They came from the vicinity of Cincinnati. Then the Russian and Polish tide of 10:00immigrants came in the 1880s and my family, my father, my uncles, my grandfather, my grandparents, my aunts and uncles, all came before 1900. My father came here in 1890.

Interviewer:

From where?

M.K.:

From Russia. They came from Russia and we still have many decedents. Almost down to the seventh generation, which is quite a handful. We had a couple of years ago a cousins club reunion and we had 104 present at that dinner party. I'd like to say that before that, a couple years before that, the Anshei Sfard Synagogue 11:00had an 83rd-

R.G.:

80th-

M.K.:

83rd year anniversary-

R.G.:

-anniversary

M.K.:

-of the beginning of the Anshei Sfard Synagogue and that time-

R.G.:

That was not the beginning.

M.K.:

No, it was an anniversary. There were about 25 or 30 descendens of my grandfather who, was one of the founders.

Interviewer:

What was his name?

M.K.:

His name was Abraham Shalom Brownstein. He wasn't one of the signers of the note that established the synagogue, but he was one of the founders and one of the staunch congregants. My grandmother, my grandfather, were the first to donate the torah and the altar cloth and the ark to that particular shul, which was a fishing cabinet.

Interviewer:

This was around the turn of the century?

M.K.:

Yes, before 1900. At that time they had living, my grandmother and grandfather, had a grandson or a granddaughter of everyone of their children. Not a granddaughter, but I mean a son and a daughter of every one their children. At that time they were living.

R.G.:

Third generation.

M.K.:

The third generation. No, it would be the second generation, wouldn't it?

R.G.:

No, it's be the third.

M.K.:

My grandfather, would be the first, second, third. These were the descendants. They had one or two or even three grandchildren at that affair plus a lot of grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and great-great-grandchildren. There were about 30 of them present at that one dinner party and I thought that was a pretty good representation after 83 years.

Interviewer:

Could you tell me some of the families in town who are related to your clan?

R.G.:

Well, we'll start with the Brownsteins. I don't know how many you know here in the city. We're losing them very quickly. There are very few of the Brownstein, the older generation, left. We're [inaudible 00:13:33]. There are just about three of us granddaughters left of my grandfather and the rest of course are all ...

M.K.:

I wonder if she wants names. Minnie Baker.

R.G.:

Well, there's a Mrs. Minnie Baker, who was the daughter of Jacob Brownstein and Molly and I are the daughters of Bessie Brownstein Goldstein. Mrs. Abraham 14:00[Krupp 00:14:05], Dr. Krupp's wife, and [Sydney 00:14:09] Baer and Abe Baer, who is the button king here.

M.K.:

And Silman Baer. Dr. Silman.

R.G.:

And Dr. Silman Baer are the children of Sydney Brownstein Baer. We just lost David Brownstein who was the son of Harry Brownstein. There are three sisters left to Dave.

M.K.:

And one brother.

R.G.:

Yeah, and one brother. And that's Alvin Brownstein out in Los Angeles, who heads up the Jewish Welfare Funds. You might've read about him. He's quite prominent. There's Rose-

M.K.:

[Erbeck 00:15:02].

R.G.:

-Brownstein Erbeck. There is-

M.K.:

Clara.

R.G.:

-Blanch Brownstein [Pasternack 00:15:11] who lives in Rochester and the Erbeck live in Florida. They are the parents of-

M.K.:

Clara.

R.G.:

Wait a minute. They're the parents of Dr. Stuart Erbeck here in the city. Clara Brownstein-

M.K.:

Larner.

R.G.:

-Larner, who just lost her husband [Lonny 00:15:33] Larner, lives in Indianapolis, and her children. She's a sister, of course, of this Harry Brownstein family. She has two boys. You might have heard about one of them who writes. He's out west. His name is-

M.K.:

Jeremiah.

R.G.:

-Jeremiah Larner. Jeremy Larner who wrote that book "Drive, He Said" and who 16:00writes for the TV and he was also on-

M.K.:

Politicians.

R.G.:

He worked on the campaign for Mr. McCarthy when he was running.

R.G.:

And Danny. Danny Larner is a teacher out west somewhere. We haven't seen him in years. Who did I forget? Blanch.

M.K.:

Debbie.

R.G.:

Oh. Then there is Leon Levitch. His mother was Goldie Brownstein Levitch and you probably have heard about him. He owns the Fall City Liquor Company and is very philanthropic and has given a lot the community.

Interviewer:

By the way, this Mrs. Krupp, is this Becky Krupp?

R.G.:

Becky Krupp, yeah. She's our first cousin. And I hope I haven't left anybody else out. Oh, there was another Abe Brownstein and his children have all passed 17:00on. He was one of the younger brothers. My grandfather and grandmother had rather a large family. They had many more in Europe, but they didn't survive to get over here.

Interviewer:

What I would like to hear is a bit more about your personal family life. Your parents, who they were, what they did.

R.G.:

Well, my mother's name was Pessie. Bessie they called her. She married Sam [inaudible 00:17:48] Goldstein in Russia. He came. He was brought over here by my Uncle Jake and Uncle Harry Brownstein, who had proceeded him to this country, 18:00and he was supposed to bring my mother with him. They had just recently been married and he was supposed to. She was to accompany him, but he was a young man about 17 or 18 at the time and they talked him out of bringing my mother because there was a good friend that needed to come to America to make a living and bring his family over.

R.G.:

And so, my dad gave up his ticket for my mother and brought the father of Ben Schneider, and [Mendall 00:18:41] Schneider, and Charlie Schneider. There were three young boys that were born over in Russia and Mr. [Mortikie 00:18:50] or what do they call him? Mark, no. Marcus Schneider was in the family. His wife was married to-

M.K.:

His wife's brother.

R.G.:

His wife was married to my aunt's ...

M.K.:

His wife's brother.

R.G.:

No, wait a minute.

M.K.:

Yeah.

R.G.:

Mr. Schneider was Aunt Goldie's brother-in-law.

M.K.:

All right.

R.G.:

She was already here too. Now, at [inaudible 00:19:20]. They let Mr. Schneider come. He left his family over there and my father worked here for my Uncle Jake Brownstein as the tailor.

M.K.:

Now, just a minute. He only worked there a little while. He wasn't happy. People by the name of Handmaker, Tyler Handmaker, heard the story of how my father was being taken care of there not because of my uncle but family affairs there. So, they took him to their home. Now, they had [crosstalk 00:19:55].

R.G.:

He was just a youngster.

M.K.:

Max Schneider there.

R.G.:

I'll get around to that, but that's [crosstalk 00:20:05]. He came originally 20:00through my Uncle Jake Brownstein and as she said he wasn't happy there. There was family problems, so they had, Mr. and Mrs. Handmaker took, yhey had these small tailoring shops in their own home.

M.K.:

Subcontractors.

R.G.:

In New York they're called sweat shops, but here they're not. They were not sweat shops here. Because it was almost like a family and people were kind. They didn't exploit them like they would in a city like New York or Chicago or one of the eastern cities because they knew each other. They mingled. And so, they were all friends.

R.G.:

So, he went to work for the Handmaker family, but in the meantime he worked about a year. The wages were very, very small. I think something like $4 a week, 21:00but $4 a week at that time was probably $15 or $20 today or maybe more. Well, he managed to furnish out a couple of rooms, full rooms, rooms that were necessary, at least kitchen, a bedroom, a parlor, and he brought my mother over the following year.

Interviewer:

Which was? Do you know what year that was?

R.G.:

Well, he come in 1890, so she must've in 1891. He took out his naturalization papers immediately or almost as soon as he got off the boat. Well, along with my mother and with the help of my uncles and my grandfather, who had been brought over previously, they brought my grandmother, two younger aunts, and another 22:00brother. There were five people who came over at that time.

R.G.:

One uncle was separated. They had to reroute him because he was almost of draft age. They were afraid that he'd get caught and the Russians would put him in the army, so they had to reroute him. They had to smuggle him out of the little village. Then he joined them later. My whole family came over, my grandmother, the two young aunts, Uncle Abe, and my mother, and they had a very difficult time coming over here.

R.G.:

I have a paper that I thought made a historical background there to present at this cousins club. It's quite lengthy and I don't think you want to hear all that, but if you are interested I could show it to you.

R.G.:

So, my father, and mother, and family sewed here. He worked as a tailor. Then he opened up a little store on 7th Street that she told you about and they both worked long hours and raised a family. They had five children. One, a brother, he passed away at a very early age and so there were four girls. Rose was our oldest sister, then Molly, then another sister Tilly, who has passed away in the meantime, and myself.

M.K.:

And Rose.

R.G.:

I said Rose. My mother conducted the store while my father went off to Arkansas as she told you before. He didn't stay there too long. Then he came back and they decided that they wanted to get into a smaller community, so they went and 24:00opened up a store in Stanford, Kentucky.

Interviewer:

About?

M.K.:

Lincoln County.

R.G.:

In Lincoln County near Danville. You're familiar with Danville?

Interviewer:

Yeah.

R.G.:

About 10 miles from Danville and about 5 or 10 miles from [inaudible 00:24:23], Kentucky.

Interviewer:

Was this around 1900?

R.G.:

Oh, no. This was later than that. It was around 19-

M.K.:

Well, you were one year old.

R.G.:

I was one year old. I was born in 1902. It must have been 1903. Or between 1903 or 1904.

M.K.:

I may have to check something there. My grandfather Brownstein was a [Capala 00:24:53] miser.

R.G.:

I'll tell him about that, Molly. I'll tell him why we came. Why the family came.

M.K.:

Yeah, he was one of the last three of Nicholai's army.

R.G.:

He was one of the last butler's of the Crimean War.

M.K.:

Crimean War.

R.G.:

And there were very many interesting stories that he had to tell us. We lived to hear it. I mean he lived to tell us these stories.

R.G.:

But anyhow, we moved to Sanford around 1903 or 1904 somewhere around there in those years. And we stayed there until about 1907. The girls were growing up and my mother and father were afraid that they would marry non Jewish boys.

M.K.:

Where mother and father were.

R.G.:

It was a lovely town, Stanford, at that time. They accepted us. We were the only Jewish family at the time we moved there. As she told you there were two young 26:00bachelors there that had a store business and we were friends. We were competitors in business, but we were friends on Sunday and holidays. And to this day that friendship goes for those who have remained in those families. We have been friends.

R.G.:

Now, they stayed there till about 1907 and in the meantime there were many changes in the Jewish community. The Anshei Sfard was started in a little room there on 7th street. It went into the Scottish Rite Cathedral on 6th and Walnut. It's no longer here. It's been torn down. It was torn down many years ago. Then it moved from the Scottish Rite Cathedral up to 1st and Walnut.

R.G.:

Those are the things I remember because we would be brought in for the holidays and we went to the synagogues for all the big holidays. Our father would close his store and bring the family in. Sometimes he would stay longer. Sometimes he would just stay the holidays and then he'd go back and leave us here with relatives. Then he'd come back for the closing holidays. That's why I remember those very vividly.

R.G.:

Then we came back to Louisville. In I think about the summer of 1907 or maybe it was 1908.

M.K.:

It was longer to me than that.

R.G.:

[inaudible 00:28:00].

M.K.:

[inaudible 00:28:00] in Stanford was beautiful.

R.G.:

But he's not interested in Stanford. He wants to know more about Louisville. We had a very good life there in Stanford. If it hadn't been for the girls, we might've still been there. But my mother and father, not that they were too religious, but they were afraid that the girls wanted to marry, so they brought them back. They were growing up, 15, 16 years old. And that's how we got back to Louisville.

R.G.:

We lived on Madison. We went to live on Madison street at that time where the Jewish Hospital is. We lived right in the house were they have the rehabilitation center.

Interviewer:

Oh, what's now known as Abraham Flexner?

R.G.:

Yeah, it was called East Madison Street. Now it's called Flexner Way.

Interviewer:

Flexner Way.

R.G.:

Where the rehabilitation center is next to the Jewish hospital is where our house was where we lived. And on Madison Street we had a store on Madison, [Linker 00:29:20] [Stokey 00:29:20] kept it, Adam [Linker's 00:29:23] father and they lived there. And down about just a few doors across the street they lived there. That was practically across the street from us, wasn't it?

M.K.:

Yeah.

R.G.:

Alvin, his sister Mrs. Grossman, Sydney Grossman, his brother Harry, and another brother [Karl 00:29:49]. And the Linker family lived there, Mrs. Linker's family, the-

M.K.:

[Sallaways 00:29:56].

R.G.:

-Sallaways lived there on our side of the street. There was the Levine family. 30:00Nobody's here anymore from that family. They moved away to Detroit, but there are some cousins I think that are still here. I mean the immediate family moved away. Then there was the Rabbi [Provinski 00:30:21], who was quite an Orthodox, a very Orthodox rabbi. A very fine person. You will find in the records something about him. He was-

Interviewer:

Is this before [Zarchy 00:30:39]?

R.G.:

He was here at the same time as Zarchy, but they were two different types of men. Zarchy set himself up as the dean. They didn't call him that. The Chief Rabbi. And Rabbi Provinski was even more Orthodox I think in his way [inaudible 00:31:03] and more in touch with the people.

Interviewer:

And what, I am curious, also, where you went to school. Any activities, lets say, with the YHMA. Some of the things that you did, with the Neighborhood House, along the lines of [inaudible 00:31:28].

The segment from 00:31:04 to 02:03:41 could not be transcribed due to issues with the source file.