Interview with Rae Solzman, August 30, 1978

K.C.:

One, two, three. Testing. Testing, testing. Testing, testing. This is Ken Chumbley of the University of Louisville Archives. The date is August 30, 1978. And I'm talking this morning with Mrs. Ray Solzman, and this interview is part of the university's Jewish Oral History Project.

K.C.:

Mrs. Solzman, you told me that that you have some recollections of your parents. If you would just begin there by telling me as much about your parents, and perhaps their parents, as you can.

Rae Solzman:

Well, my parents were born in Warsaw, Poland. Now, I don't know too much about the history of my mother, but I understand my father was the youngest of 13 children. And they lived there for generations. Originally, my father said they 1:00came from Germany. I used to hear him tell about that- he thought he still had relatives in France.

R.S.:

That's where they came from. They came from Germany, but he had relatives in France, and in Germany. Now, their name was Schuman, S-C-H-U-M-A-N.

K.C.:

Your father's?

R.S.:

My father's name. However, at one time it was changed by a living in Poland. It was changed to Schumansky, S-K-Y was added on. But, when he came to this country, he took the sky off and left it to Schuman. And we always went by the name of Schuman, which, according to my father, was the original name.

R.S.:

There, he was supposed to report for army duty-

K.C.:

This is in Poland?

R.S.:

This is in Warsaw, Poland. And he- being the youngest, I understand my grandmother did not want him to go. Well, he was going with my mother at the same time, at that time. So they got married, and they slipped out of the country and went to Germany. They just stayed there long enough to go on. And from Germany, they went top London.

R.S.:

They went to London, England, and I think they were not there too long. Maybe about three years, the way I understand. Because, I was born in London, and I came to this country when I was about a year and a half old.

K.C.:

What did your father do? What kind of work did he do?

R.S.:

Well, he was what they called a... At that time he called himself a tinner. That is for roofs and things like that, you know. But, he was also an engraver. And he used to engrave not the little things. In this country he would engrave, at 3:00the time they had saloons, and they had the large urns where they served soups and things. Well he could engrave all that, freehand. He never went to school for anything like that.

R.S.:

My father was an all-around man, there wasn't anything that he could not do. So he went to this country, he did not work too long for any concerned, he always wanted to be working for himself.

K.C.:

In Europe though, did he... You say he was a tinner.

R.S.:

A tinner, and an engraver.

K.C.:

Did he travel much as a tinner?

R.S.:

No, it was right around... I've heard him mention several little towns. But, in Warsaw there was plenty of work. Of course, at that time they used tin roofs. There was no such thing as shingles, and things like that. You know?

K.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

R.S.:

And'til the- 'til the day he died, he thought that was terrible not to put on a 4:00real roof. He said, "That's no real roof. A real roof is a tin roof."

K.C.:

Was he able, when you immigrated to or when they immigrated to London, was he able to find work?

R.S.:

He had a very hard time. So, they found a job for him as- teaching as a tailor. And he was good at that, he learned quick. But, the climate did not agree with him. And they worked in the basements, he told me, and the gas lights and all of that did not agree with him. And he must have gotten... I don't know whether he had pneumonia or what, because he said he coughed up blood. And that's when they decided to come to this country to get away from-

K.C.:

Were these sweatshops that you-

R.S.:

Sweatshops. That's where he worked. He came to this country, I don't remember 5:00the year. Of course, I wouldn't know. And he worked about six months, and he saved up enough to send for my mother and I. My mother and I, we came. We started out in steerage. My mother was already pregnant. She was pregnant when he left. She had just gotten pregnant when he left. And she couldn't take care of me, she was pretty sick.

R.S.:

And my mother was a very, very particular clean type of person. And the way they had to live, all together in steerage, she was sick. Well, from the second class, not first class, second-class passengers, were [Schluman 00:05:49]. And they came down, and they saw how sick my mother was. And, I must have been a- had a big mouth or something, because they were attracted to me. And they made 6:00arrangements for us to be moved up in second class, my mother and I. And that's the way we came over.

K.C.:

Do you remember? Of course, you were too young to remember anything.

R.S.:

Don't remember a thing. But we came to Kessel, let's see Kessel and... I don't know the real pronunciation, because they always said Kessel Garden, and I'm sure that they did not pronounce it right. Came in-

K.C.:

How long was the trip from... Do you recall?

R.S.:

Don't know. Must have been a week. I don't know, at that time. At that time.

K.C.:

When was this, roughly?

R.S.:

Let's see, I am- I was born 1901, and I was a year-and-a-half-old. It must have been about 1903, I imagine. Maybe about 1903.

K.C.:

And your mother and you arrived in New York?

R.S.:

In New York. My father was there, and my mother says she was scared because she 7:00couldn't find him. There were so many people there. But she says I spotted him, and I said, "Oh, Tata, Tata." That's father in Jewish. And I said, "Tata, Tata," because I could not speak English.

K.C.:

What were you speaking?

R.S.:

Jewish.

K.C.:

Yiddish, or-

R.S.:

Yiddish. Yiddish. My mother, it was a long time before she would learn English, because she had the idea that she was going to go home. She always said "[foreign language 00:07:32]". Which means, I want to go home.

K.C.:

Back to?

R.S.:

Back to to Warsaw. You know, Poland.

K.C.:

Okay. Poland.

R.S.:

But, when I got to mixing with the children, of course I learned to speak English then, and forgot my Jewish. Because my mother spoke Jewish in the house, and I understood. But until, until I married I really didn't speak much Jewish.

K.C.:

Did your parents and you settle then in New York?

R.S.:

We settled in New York. My father had rented two rooms, and furnished them. It was a kitchen and a bedroom. Of course, I don't remember, I'm just going by what they said. Which was unusual, because most people lived in one room, and most people had to have boarders in order to make ends meet. But, my father made nine dollars a week, which in those days was something. And he was able to support us.

K.C.:

Was he working as a tailor here?

R.S.:

No.

K.C.:

Or, as an engraver?

R.S.:

An engraver. An engraver. In New York, he was working as an engraver.

K.C.:

Did you and your family live in a predominantly Jewish area?

R.S.:

Sure. Sure. I can't even remember the street, I don't know what it was. What was it street with so many Jewish men. I guess Hester Street and... I don't remember. I don't remember heard mentioning. Oh, sure.

K.C.:

What part of New York City was this in?

R.S.:

East end. By the East River. And I'll tell you what I remember. I remember the kitchen had a window, and I was just barely tall enough to see over the sill. And I saw sails.

K.C.:

Is that right?

R.S.:

Ships would sail... And some people says, "No, it couldn't have been." I says " No, I remember that." I couldn't see the ship, but I saw the sails.

K.C.:

But you saw the sails. Going up and down the East River?

R.S.:

Yes.

K.C.:

Huh.

R.S.:

I think they must have had ships with sails in those days yet. Of course, I guess they were going into maybe, steamships. I don't know. I guess so, but I saw some ships with sails.

K.C.:

How did your... You said your mother was pregnant when she came over.

R.S.:

Yeah.

K.C.:

The baby was born healthy and all?

R.S.:

Oh, yes. My sister. My sister. She lived to be 33-years-old. She died in childbirth, and her son is now 40-years-old.

K.C.:

Oh, is he still in Louisville? Or was he in Louisville.

R.S.:

Yes, yes, yes. And we're related to some of the Gordons.

K.C.:

Oh, I see. What was - what do you remember of that early life in New York City? What are your first recollections?

R.S.:

My first recollections were-

K.C.:

Aside from the boats, of course.

R.S.:

My mother sending me to play with the children, of course, in the street. And they had- all the houses were alike, that I remember. I couldn't read numbers, I was too young, but my mother would send me to the grocery with a note. You know, and money. I would go to the grocery, but I would mark myself on my fingers which house that I belonged in.

K.C.:

Is that right?

R.S.:

Uh-huh (affirmative).

K.C.:

You hadn't any other way of remembering, I guess.

R.S.:

I had no other way of remembering. They were all exactly alike. They had a few steps, but they called them stoops. Stoops. I imagine that maybe they still do. And that's the way I found my way back, but I don't remember much except that I 11:00had a birthday party when I was four-years-old. It's the only thing. The only things I can remember.

R.S.:

Oh, yes, and I do remember my father had a very wealthy uncle and ant, who lived... I suppose it have been... [phone rings 00:11:14]. Excuse me.

K.C.:

Your ant and uncle.

R.S.:

My ant and uncle. And they had- and my father and mother, we were several children then, took us to see them. It must have been... I don't know whether at that time the Bronx or some place. Brownsville? Some place was a pretty classy neighborhood.And I know we did a lot of traveling to get there. They had, I remember the carpets. Sink in the carpets. You know?

R.S.:

And the- they had one room that was given over just to birds. All kinds of birds. They were in cages. But, they were all with green ring. I remember that. 12:00And my cousin- and my ant and uncle and cousin also came and we had a little family reunion. And he said to my- my father's uncle said, "I have a little ring..." that sticks in my mind. It was a tiny little diamond, and they said the girl who's finger it fits can have it. And I was too little, so my cousin got it.

K.C.:

Oh, my.

R.S.:

You know how things like that- things like that stick in your mind.

K.C.:

You remember, yeah.

R.S.:

I remember those things. And right off hand, that's about all I can remember.

K.C.:

About what age did you begin grammar school?

R.S.:

Well, I started when I supposed to have been six. But, I started the kindergarten at five. And I went into first grade before I was six.

K.C.:

What school did you attend? It was in New York City, wasn't it?

R.S.:

Well, no. I think... Maybe it was, but I don't remember. I don't remember. It probably was, but I don't remember that. Then, we left there. My father, by that 13:00time, had worked himself up, and he had what they called a China Store. It was a hardware, combination of hardware with China, with everything. He always was a person who wanted to be in business for himself, and he did not like to work for anybody.

K.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

R.S.:

And I don't know how many years we were there. Let's see how many of them was us about that time. There were myself, my sisters Dorothy, Bessie, Mary. There were three or four of us by that time. My mother had children pretty close together.

K.C.:

How many did she have all together?

R.S.:

We were six altogether.

K.C.:

Six children.

R.S.:

And I am not quite 10 years older than my brother. Then, we had an ant and uncle. My mother's sister came. They were over in New York, and they decided to got to Canada, to Montreal. So they went to Canada, and they wrote letters. Oh, 14:00how wonderful... You know how people will write, especially in those days. So my father said, if it's that good, we'll go.

R.S.:

My father was that way. Make up his mind, he's ready. So he went on, and I remember my mother and I... My mother had a baby in her arms, and one holding on to her dress, with bundles. She had a suitcase, and I had the bundles with another one holding on with the other hand. And we had to change trains at night, and we were so sleepy.

K.C.:

I bet. Yeah.

R.S.:

And we were just like chickens following the mother hen. I was the oldest, so I was my-

K.C.:

How old were you?

R.S.:

I must have been six- or seven-years-old. I was about six, I guess. But I had to take care of my little sister. Make sure she didn't get lost, and carry that 15:00bundle under the other arm. Well, we got there, in the dead of winter, in Montreal.

R.S.:

We stayed with my ant and uncle, and they had two children. My father was looking for work. Well, in the dead of winter, he couldn't find anything. In the meantime, it was so bitter cold, and we were not used to it. I remember one day my mother sent me out to get a pitcher of milk. It was a white pitcher, and I was dressed with gloves, with everything, and I went to where it was. It was a grocery and milk dairy, and I brought that home. When I got home, they had to pries my fingers loose from the pitcher.

K.C.:

Oh, no.

R.S.:

It was frozen. And I remember crying. Oh, my mother burst into [dust 00:15:54]. She put my hands under her armpits.

K.C.:

Oh, really?

R.S.:

Yes. And then they rubbed it with ice, which was wrong, of course. Anyhow, my 16:00father said, "This will not do. These kids will die here." So, we went to Chicago. We went to Chicago, and he got work there. He got work there, why did we leave Chicago? Oh, my ant and uncle, in the meantime, they gave up Canada, and they came to Louisville.

R.S.:

They came to Louisville, and they wrote some more letters. You know, how wonderful it was. So my father-

K.C.:

You'd gone to Montreal and [laughing 00:16:36]-

R.S.:

My father packed up and came to Louisville.

K.C.:

He didn't begin to distrust what they were saying, or anything?

R.S.:

No. No. [laughing 00:16:42] Afterwards he did. He came to Louisville, but he could only do better than my uncle. In fact, my father helped support them.

K.C.:

What was your uncle doing?

R.S.:

He was a shoemaker. And he was a shy, backward type of person. He was a good man, and he was very relig- he wasn't so religious, but he was well read. He was 17:00well read, he learned English. Well read in English, and in Hebrew, everything. He knew everything. You've seen those type of people, and that's what he was.

R.S.:

Well we came here. We moved to- I was nine-years-old. We moved to Eighth and Market, indoor store building. And Papa, I told you he was a jack of all trades. He put up a petition... Maybe I shouldn't be telling all this stuff. But, he put up a petition for the living quarters. He built most of the things we used. Of course, he got a bed and stove and things, but he built Mama a chest of drawers. You know, things like that, to keep things in. He went as a tinner for himself.

R.S.:

And my brother was born there. My brother was... That's how I know how old I was. When I wasn't quite 10, my brother was born in the back of the store. You 18:00know, he had what you call a brit. He was a boy, and he had to be circumcised. And brit back there, and they had gotten acquainted with the neighbors, and that's who we had. And, my ant and uncle, and the two children. Course, that's all the relatives we had there.

K.C.:

Were your aunt and uncle and their two children living right there in the Walnut Street area?

R.S.:

No. They were living... No, we were on Market Street.

K.C.:

I'm sorry, Market Street.

R.S.:

No, they lived at Campbell and Walnut. He had a little shoe repair shop, and they lived in the back, it was parceled in. It went on, then he decided he wasn't making enough money. You know, he wanted to make money. And he went- so he started to buy furniture. And he was a good mechanic, and he would buy stoves...

K.C.:

Is this your dad?

R.S.:

Yeah. Heating stoves. And he could fix them up, and sell them. You know, little 19:00by little. Then we moved on East Market. Where I really grew up, and Floyd and Market, where I was really raised, where I grew up.

K.C.:

Was this, again, a largely Jewish area?

R.S.:

Oh, sure.

K.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

R.S.:

Sure. All my friends come from there. And he bought furniture, sold it. My mother stayed in the store while he went out to buy. He was a good buyer, but my mother was a good saleslady. He could buy any kind of a broken-down stove, and fix it up. He'd buy a grate, and a lining, and all that. He was a real mechanic.

K.C.:

Yeah.

R.S.:

And we'd sell it that way. And I lived there until I got married. Until, I got married.

K.C.:

What do you remember most about the neighborhood? You said your friends were Jewish-

R.S.:

Well, we had a bakery, [Fleagle's 00:20:00] bakery was on the corner, Jewish. 20:00And most people there, they had little second-hand stores, bought and sold furniture, some clothing. And lived either in the back of the store, or when they prospered a little, moved upstairs, which we did after a time. By the time I got married, we were occupying the whole building.

K.C.:

As you recall, was your life difficult? Evidently, your father was beginning to prosper, so probably you weren't-

R.S.:

My father was about the first one around there who got away from that horse and wagon and had a truck. Of course, I'm leaving out a whole lot of thing. The time before we moved over there, on Market Street, I left that out.

R.S.:

He took a notion he wanted to be a farmer. He said that's why we left Eighth and Market. And he said he had 600 dollars saved, which in those days was a lot of money.

K.C.:

Still is.

R.S.:

And so- he knew nothing. Had never been on a farm, didn't know one end of a horse from the other, but he was going to be a farmer. He said by that time he had six children, and that would be a good place to raise them, and they'd always have something to eat, and a nice place to live. So, they sold him a farm that... I would love to find that place. South Park.

K.C.:

Oh, way out in the South End-

R.S.:

South Park, ten acres. Ten acres. It had a little four-room box house, outhouse, a well. Which was sulfur, we didn't know it, and we- [ringing 00:21:56]

K.C.:

You were telling about the sulfur well.

R.S.:

We had to carry water a quarter of a mile from our neighbors, when they saw that we were just green. And they felt sorry for us, so they said, "You can use our water." But, we only stayed there that summer.

K.C.:

Did you father pay the whole 600 dollars on that?

R.S.:

Put down the 600 dollars, and he still owed more on it.

K.C.:

So, he didn't have a savings, and he moved?

R.S.:

No. There was an old man lived on the place or staying on the place, and he was supposed to show my father. So, my father put in a crop of corn, and when he wound up that fall, he had a barrel of corn, and nothing. So, we moved back. That's when we went to Floyd and Market. That's when we went to Floyd and Market. We lived there until I got married. I got married to him there.

K.C.:

Where did you... Did you complete grammar school then?

R.S.:

I completed grammar school there at George W. Morris School. And I went to 23:00Spencerian Business College, and I learned typing and shorthand. And you know, the whole course. And I was just barely 16-years-old by then, I couldn't get a job, no experience. No one wanted to give me any experience. You know, no one wanted to give me a job.

R.S.:

So, my father knew an attorney, and he talked him into hiring me. I hate to tell you what he gave me. Three dollars a week. To start. Well, I worked there a while, then I went over to Belknap's, and I was a typist writing up mail orders that came in I worked there a while. In the meantime between that time, I had... 24:00Before I finally got to that attorney, I would take... When someone went on a vacation, a week here and a week there and so forth. But, that wasn't enough to get me started.

R.S.:

I worked there at Belknap's, and my father didn't want me to work there because he said they were not treating me right.

K.C.:

How were they not? Paying you so little, or...

R.S.:

Well, I got six dollars there.

K.C.:

You got a raise.

R.S.:

Big deal, but that wasn't it. They worked you [inaudible 00:24:35]. I don't remember how late we had to work, was it to 5:00, or 5:30? Five. And if we had overtime, if we worked 30 minutes, they gave us a quarter extra. But, he always managed to work us 25 minutes, so we didn't get paid. So my father said, "None of that." So, I quit, and I got a job with the Fred Franklin Bedding Machinery. I worked there until I got married, at 18.

K.C.:

And, you were living at home the whole time?

R.S.:

Oh, sure. Sure. How could I live any place else on what I was making? Well, I worked myself up to about 15 dollars a week when I got married. Which was a really big deal.

K.C.:

That's at the bedding company?

R.S.:

Yes. Yes.

K.C.:

What were you doing at the bedding company?

R.S.:

I was running the office, mostly. Doing everything. Mostly running the office. And he was- Mr. Miller was training me so that he could travel, and he would leave the office to me. But, I got married, at 18.

K.C.:

What was your father doing at the time when you were out working?

R.S.:

He still had that store.

K.C.:

So he was- he was- was he doing pretty well, then?

R.S.:

Yeah. He had a- we had a truck, and on Sunday... It was one with the drop curtains on the side. A truck. And on Sunday we would all get out there, and we would clean off that truck. And he had boards that he put across for us to sit on, and we'd go picnicking. That was our pleasure. We'd go at-

K.C.:

Where did you go picnicking?

R.S.:

Well, either to Shawnee Park, or Jacobs Park.

K.C.:

Where's Jacobs Park?

R.S.:

It's Iroquois.

K.C.:

Oh, Iroquois.

R.S.:

Iroquois it's now.

K.C.:

That was quite a drive then.

R.S.:

Yeah. Oh my, and we were the first ones in the neighborhood to have an automobile. You know, that was something. Now my father never had much money, and I mean he didn't have a lot of money, but we always had enough to eat. We'd ask for things, you know, different things, he'd say, "Look, we can't afford it. You've got a place to sleep, you've got a clean home, you've got enough to eat. Warm in the winter."

K.C.:

You had everything you need.

R.S.:

Everything we needed. Well those were the days, you know. So that's it. That's part of it.

K.C.:

Uh-huh (affirmative).

R.S.:

Of course, a lot of things happened in between.

K.C.:

What- did your father, you say he wasn't a religious man.

R.S.:

He was not too religious. My mother kept Kosher and everything, kept a Kosher house and all that. But, he wasn't too religious, no.

K.C.:

Did you all attend a shul, or...

R.S.:

Well, not too much. Not too much. We did go, like on holidays and things like that. I didn't got to shul much until I was grown.

K.C.:

Did you learn... I suppose since you didn't attend regularly, that you didn't learn Hebrew.

R.S.:

No. I still don't.

K.C.:

You didn't learn much about Jewish tradition and all that.

R.S.:

Oh that, of course naturally. All Jews knew that.

K.C.:

You got that I guess, through your mother at home.

R.S.:

At home. Yes, yes.

K.C.:

You say you were married at 18. Will you talk a little about that, and meeting your husband and all.

R.S.:

Yes. I met my husband when I was 16.

K.C.:

Uh-huh (affirmative).

R.S.:

And met him at... She was later my sister-in-law's house. We corresponded, and he came to see me, took my hand and all, the first time I went out with him. Where did we go? A picnic basket that you fixed up yourself. My mother helped 28:00me. And we went to Iroquois Park. And she sent my sister with me.

K.C.:

Sent your sister with you.

R.S.:

I said, "Mama, it doesn't look nice for if I've got..." We didn't say date. Said I'm going out with a boy, for my sister to tag along. She said, "It ain't going to hurt you a bit if the boy cares for you, he's not going to care."

K.C.:

He'll put up with it. Yeah.

R.S.:

And she sent my sister for the first time.

K.C.:

How old was your husband-to-be?

R.S.:

He was about seven years older than I.

K.C.:

Was he working?

R.S.:

Oh, yeah, he was working in Virginia.

K.C.:

Oh he had to come a long way.

R.S.:

His family were here, he had just come to see his family. That's how I met him.

K.C.:

Was he a salesman, did he travel?

R.S.:

He was in a store. He was a salesman in a store.

K.C.:

In Virginia?

R.S.:

In Virginia.

K.C.:

Did he get here often?

R.S.:

Well, pretty often. But, he wrote between times. He wrote between times. And 29:00then, when we got married, he went in business for himself.

K.C.:

Where did he go in business? What kind of business?

R.S.:

Well, he went in partners with his brother Ben, here in Louisville. His brother was a shoemaker, had a shoe store at Second and Market.

K.C.:

What was the name of it?

R.S.:

Friedman's. Friedman's Shoe Repair and Shoe Store.

K.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

R.S.:

My husband was not cut out to be a shoemaker, I'll tell you that. He was well learned, and he was a good salesman, and there wasn't enough in that for us. Then, we went to Harrodsburg, in '23. I think '23.

R.S.:

We opened a store. I had saved 75 dollars for the Christmas saving. We drew that 30:00out to pay the first month's rent. And he had a good reputation, and people from where he worked and so forth, and this store knew him, knew he was honest. And he went on the main street. There was Adie's Dry Goods. There was Carter's, we bought a lot of things from Carter's. And several more. They gave us credit.

K.C.:

What kind of store was this?

R.S.:

It was a general store. It was like, you know, men's and women's and children's.

K.C.:

Was it a dry goods store?

R.S.:

Dry goods, and shoes. And shoes. And we did well on nothing, until the Depression. That knocked the pins out from under us.

K.C.:

What was the... Surely there weren't many Jews in Harrodsburg.

R.S.:

Just a few.

K.C.:

Because, it's a very rural area.

R.S.:

Very few. There were very few, very few.

K.C.:

What was life for you and your husband like there with so few Jews around? Were people cordial?

R.S.:

Mostly just took... Well, they didn't... At that time, they considered themselves as competitors to one another.

K.C.:

Uh-huh (affirmative).

R.S.:

You know, of course-

K.C.:

It wasn't a matter of religion?

R.S.:

No. It wasn't so. Oh no, no. That, we had to come to Louisville, or to Lexington. We did very well until that Depression. And we lost everything we had worked about 10 years for.

K.C.:

How much had you saved?

R.S.:

Well, we didn't have any money, it was in the store, stock. You know, my husband, and a lot of men in those days, they believed in what you had in stock. Not so much money saved. We lost everything.

K.C.:

How did you lose it? People just couldn't afford to buy?

R.S.:

We couldn't... They couldn't afford to buy, and we owed.

K.C.:

Mercy.

R.S.:

We owed, we were in debt.

K.C.:

It was repossessed then?

R.S.:

No. We didn't bankrupt, we settled. We settled it, he paid off every penny. But it was a while, so the time we paid it all up, we were broke.

K.C.:

Yeah.

R.S.:

We were broke. [silence 00:32:22]

K.C.:

... were tough, of course.

R.S.:

Very, very tough. We used to sweat at paying that rent at the first of the month.

K.C.:

I bet.

R.S.:

We were hoping Saturday we would take in enough to pay the rent. You know, and the overhead. Things like that. And we just couldn't pay the bills, so we were getting behind. But I'll tell you, I've forgotten his name. He was with Carter's, I'll never forget him. And, Adie's, they were wonderful to us. Of 33:00course, we owed out of town too. By that time, we were buying out of town too, but the people here, they backed us. They said, "Louis, we know you're honest, and we'll give you time."

K.C.:

Your creditors?

R.S.:

Yes. Credit.

K.C.:

How did- when did you first come out of the Depression? When did things pick up?

R.S.:

By the time we got through, we went from Harrodsburg, we went to Danville. Danville, and we got credit again. Credit was good. We were just there about, more than a year we were doing very good. Also, we did not have enough capital. We had to buy on credit, and we had to sell in order to pay. So, a big store came in, just cleaned up the town. Just like they do now, you know.

R.S.:

And we- so we sold- we sold our stock that time, to a man by the name of [Lovenhart 00:34:17] from Lexington. And we had enough to come back here and open a grocer. We never bankrupted. You know what I-

K.C.:

I understand.

R.S.:

We never bankrupt, but it was pretty tight. So we had to sell that, and we came to Louisville, and opened a little grocery. And my husband was not a grocery man, he was a merchandiser. We made money, flood came.

K.C.:

Where was the grocery store?

R.S.:

Eighteenth and Market. I wish I would have thought about it, I would have shown you a picture of it. Eighteenth and Market.

K.C.:

Then the flood came in 1937.

R.S.:

Over the counters with water. We didn't collect a penny from Red Cross, because 35:00they didn't break in. Our landlady lived next door. She sat at the window with a shotgun, said, "The first one who breaks that window is going to get shot."

K.C.:

Oh, no.

R.S.:

She would have done us a favor, because the Red Cross would have helped us. So we lost that.

K.C.:

You had no insurance or anything?

R.S.:

We couldn't get it. We couldn't get it. We couldn't get that insurance, there would be no flood insurance, and Red Cross would not help. Even washed up. I lived around the corner in a cottage and washed out most of my furniture. That secretary is all I have left. The feet, and I had three drawers put in. Three new drawers. And picked up the feet out of the mud, and had that refinished. Of course, it's been refinished since, too. But that's an old piece.

R.S.:

So that's the way it was. And then-

K.C.:

Were you feeling as if your life wasn't going right, because-

R.S.:

Oh, we knew that. But, like I said, I had a sense of humor. When we come in that house after the flood, and I was crying, he said, "Now stop that." We had a little money down. He said, "Stop that, you're not broke. And we'll start again."

K.C.:

Didn't you feel as if, gosh here we were wiped out, and-

R.S.:

Everything was against us. Everything.

K.C.:

But you had to keep going.

R.S.:

We were not the only ones. Of course.

K.C.:

Yeah, I guess there was some comfort in that.

R.S.:

Yes, we were not the only ones. We never got any help, we always went on our own.

K.C.:

What else do you remember about the time of the flood and-?

R.S.:

That we were... We had that grocery then. I wold you, the grocery. Well, I had my... My sister Dorothy had just died six weeks before.

K.C.:

She was the one who was 33 and died in childbirth?

R.S.:

Yes. And she had a six weeks' old baby, five-year-old child, and my mother and 37:00my sister were taking care of it. That was my father's home on Floyd and Burnett. We moved in upstairs with one of my sisters. All of us finally wound up up there.

R.S.:

Seventeen. Five children under five years, and younger. A six weeks' old baby. My brother-in-law who of course lost his wife, and my other brother-in-laws. We were all together. We had how many beds? We gave my mother and father one room and bed. And the rest of us slept cross ways on the bed. You know, like my husband would lay down, and I behind, and one of my sisters behind me. Brother-in-law behind her and, you know so forth. So on.

K.C.:

Did your father... Was he affected by the flood? Did it damage his-

R.S.:

Yes, but he was lucky. He had a grocery on the West End. What's the name of that place? Oh God, the West End. He closed up, and we all took things home. One 38:00would bring a bag of potatoes, another one a case of eggs. And somebody brought flour and canned goods, and chickens. And we did pretty good, until the last. In fact, I had a flu when I walked out of my house. And the doctor came to see me, came up on a ladder on the second floor.

R.S.:

We did pretty well, until we started to run out of food. And the baby, you know, my brother-in-law had to have food, and they had to come in a boat to take him, so he could get the formula for the baby. We had milk, but we ran out. Then, my husband and I decided we were going to leave and bring food back. And we had to go through all that. The Pontoon Bridge, and oh I don't know what all we went through. A whole lot of red tape. We'd go out, and we went to Jackson and 39:00Chestnut. They didn't have any water.

R.S.:

And my sister-in-law was baking, and she baked this old-fashioned round bread. She had a chicken and a half, and they just brought in milk some [inaudible 00:39:16]. We got that, and we said, "We're going back, we've got to take food to our family, because they can't get out." So we started back, and they didn't want to let us get back. Coming out I had trouble. I had a wad of money... We stopped at the fire... We got as far as the fire station on Franklin Avenue, and they said, "You cannot go out and come back, unless you've got money."

K.C.:

Why was that?

R.S.:

Well, there was too many I guess, maybe robbing and things like that.

K.C.:

Oh, I see.

R.S.:

They wanted to know that we were respectable. Well, we looked like bums.

K.C.:

Sure. I guess after all the water and...

R.S.:

My husband had a beard, and he'd lost his belt, and he had his pants tied with a rope, you know things like that. I went behind a fire engine, and I got my money and showed it to him. I did have a wad of money. They said, "Okay." Then I broke down, I started crying, I was so embarrassed, you know. And I think the fireman, he felt bad about it too, said, "Well, go on."

R.S.:

So you had to have passes to got from one place to another. We got out, and coming back we had problems too. We showed them, "Look at the food we got. We've got to get back to them." I said, "We've got a six weeks' old baby, and the rest of the children all are five and under." And I said, "Seventeen of us up there." So, they let us back, but we wouldn't stay. We got out and stayed out. My husband and I got out and stayed out.

K.C.:

Where did you all stay?

R.S.:

We stayed with my sister-in-law and brother-in-law on Chestnut Street.

K.C.:

And the water hadn't touched that?

R.S.:

No. It was around water, but we could get in and out.

K.C.:

Yeah, I see.

R.S.:

So when we went back, we went back on the Eighteenth and Market where the store was. Around the corner was a cottage. The water was still pretty swift, and my nephew was grown, and I had a pair of boys boots on. And he put me on his back, and took me to the house. When we went in, and I saw that... Mud. Mud. We went through the whole business.

R.S.:

Anyhow, my husband said, "Don't cry." He says, "We'll start again, we've got a little money, so we can start again now." So, that was the flood. That was that flood.

K.C.:

Did you-

R.S.:

We went to the Red Cross to help those things we lost in the store. Because, my husband picked up... We had beans in sacks, you know those white sacks. He put them on the counter thinking they'd be safe, because if water comes in it's not 42:00going to come this high. But it did, and those beans were that big. We put the eggs in the walk-in cooler, and they floated, and they were plastered everywhere.

K.C.:

Oh no. I bet the stench was just awful.

R.S.:

Oh, and the cans of lard. You know, they used lard, that we had in front of the display case, meat case. They had floated and broke through the glass. Oh, the mess. So, we went to the Red Cross, and they said, "Well, if they didn't break in, that's flood loss, water loss, and we cannot help you." And, they didn't. They didn't.

K.C.:

Did you clean up the place then, after the water subsided?

R.S.:

We tried to clean it up, but we didn't stay there long. We just sold what we could.

K.C.:

I see. Then where did you then...

R.S.:

Then we went to Stanford. Stanford, Kentucky.

K.C.:

I see.

R.S.:

Well we had a lot of bad luck in our lives. My goodness. We went to Stanford, 43:00Kentucky, and we opened up in November before Christmas. Doing a tremendous business. Then, we were there about with year, I think, my husband had a heart attack. It was during the war, '42. You know, '42. And he disappeared from the store. We were doing a tremendous business. We had gotten in ten thousand dollar's merchandise just that week. Fresh merchandise, you know.

R.S.:

So, he disappeared, and he come back and looked down in the mouth. I said, "What's wrong?" He says, 'I went to enlist." I said, "Are you crazy? You are 44-years-old." He said, "That's what they told me there, and-"

K.C.:

That he was crazy, that he was 44.

R.S.:

And, they told him to go back and keep his store going, and buy bonds. If, well you know, if we made money.

K.C.:

Yeah.

R.S.:

He said, in the meantime they said, "When was the last time you went to a doctor?" [ringing 00:44:09]

R.S.:

Where was I?

K.C.:

I think you were talking about buying bonds. Go back to the story about bonds.

R.S.:

We went back there, and we'd done very well. Oh, we used to be so busy. The store was about 125, 150 feet deep, and on Saturdays we could not get through the mob. We were doing a tremendous business. And he got a heart attack. He had a heart attack. So, I... He laid on the bed for three days, he couldn't move anything. In the meantime, I was getting in touch with my sister, and she was in touch with Dr. Weiss. Not this Dr. Weiss, his father. And he was telling this Dr. Frisbee what to do.

K.C.:

The physician in Stanford?

R.S.:

Yes, and he was wonderful. He was just a physician. Then he came to me on Saturday morning, I can remember begging to take him to Louisville. He said, "Mrs. Friedman," at that time my name was Friedman. He said, "If you want to take him to Louisville, take him now, because we can't do anything for him. He may not even live to come to Louisville." But that's a chance you're taking.

R.S.:

So we got the... Of course, there was no ambulance it was a hearse. You know, from the... And we brought him to Louisville, and they had everything set up. They had an oxygen tin, nurses, everything. He didn't know anything for I don't know how many weeks, and he never had a well day after that. But, he did get up, but he was a sick man. And we had to give that business up. When we sold that business, I pulled a card table to the bed, and he signed the papers there.

K.C.:

He was just kind of feeble after that?

R.S.:

Oh yes. He had a time. So we came back to Louisville and I think, for six years he didn't do anything. He wasn't able to. Then, he tried but he couldn't. He lived 18 years, though, after that first heart attack. Lived 18 years.

K.C.:

How did you all survive?

R.S.:

Well, we had some money. And we used up our money. Then, we opened a little store. We did good in Stanford, we did very well, and there [inaudible 00:46:37]. Then, we opened a little store, which didn't amount to much, and the last store we had was on Seventh across from the bakery. We barely made enough to make ends meet. Then, he had another one, and that was it.

K.C.:

Ah.

R.S.:

That was it. That's [crosstalk 00:47:06].

K.C.:

This was during the war?

R.S.:

That was in '59.

K.C.:

That was '59.

R.S.:

In '59, see.

K.C.:

I see, I see. To return a moment to the 1940 through '44, '45, when the war was going on. What are your recollections of Jewish communal life during the war years?

R.S.:

Well we were there. We did not-

K.C.:

Of course, you were in Stanford.

R.S.:

I was in Stanford, and there wasn't but I think one Jewish family there. And they were competitors, you know, and they had been there for generations, I guess. But, when we came to Louisville, of course, we had our family here. That's the way it was, and that was my married life in '59. I stayed single for five years. And I remarried, that's why my name is Solzman.

K.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

R.S.:

He died. After five years, he died, and I've been on my own ever since.

K.C.:

It's been rough then.

R.S.:

Oh, it's been rough. I couldn't get a job, because I had lost all my skills. I didn't know how to type anymore, I couldn't take shorthand, or go back to anything like that.

K.C.:

This is '59 and after.

R.S.:

Yeah, yeah.

K.C.:

What did you do? Did you have any family?

R.S.:

Yes. Yes. Well, I had some income, then I had to wait until I got a little bit of social security, and I was eating up my capital.

K.C.:

Uh-huh (affirmative).

R.S.:

Getting into that. Then, I remarried in '64. I remarried in '64, and he died in '69.

K.C.:

What did your second husband do?

R.S.:

He worked as a foreman for [Klempnar 00:48:50] Brothers. And when he died, he was drawing a pretty good salary, so I got first part of it, and now I get all 49:00of it. I get everything he... I draw fairly good social security, however, I could not live on just that. So I have a little bit, but I have to be very, very careful how I live.

K.C.:

Oh, yeah. I'm curious about the Jewish community during the '50s and thereafter. When did your work in the Jewish community begin? Have you worked much in it with the different groups and-

R.S.:

Well, after my... Yes, I worked with the auxiliary of the Jewish War Veterans. And we used to go... I wish I could find that picture. We used to- through them I used to, the Second World War was going on then. And I was- my sister and I used to make the sandwiches, you know, the Jewish boys would have what they call an Oneg Shabbat. Which is a Friday night service out at Fort Knox. And we would 50:00make the sandwiches and send them out there.

K.C.:

Oh, I see.

R.S.:

And we would make sometimes as many as four or five hundred sandwiches to go out there. Because there were other boys who would come in, you know, for the services. And I got around the center, got to work around the center, and we got after my... Then, I joined, when I was 60, I joined Club 60.

K.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

R.S.:

And I've been with that ever since.

K.C.:

What- do you go out to the center for the Club 60?

R.S.:

Yes, yes.

K.C.:

What kind of things are you all doing there?

R.S.:

Well, we do arts and crafts, we have discussion groups, we go on trips. And right now, let's see if I can find it. It was puppets. I did have them, but I don't happen to have them.

K.C.:

You're making the puppets for the kids at Jewish hospitals?

R.S.:

Yes. Those that have their tonsils taken out.

K.C.:

Yeah. Yeah.

R.S.:

You know. They put one on the tray. The put one on the tray because they're 51:00scared, and put their hands in it and play with it. I wish I could find one of them. I used to do a lot of work. That's my work. Those pictures are my work.

K.C.:

The two-

R.S.:

They're calendars. Yeah, they're just calendars.

K.C.:

You mean, is that Moses there? Who is that?

R.S.:

That's... No.

K.C.:

On the left.

R.S.:

That is-

K.C.:

Looks like a prophet.

R.S.:

That's not a prophet, that's a man in a certain holiday. They blow the shofar. You don't know what that is. And that shows him in the temple, of shul, or synagogue, below the temple. And this picture shows an old woman blessing candles for a Friday night. Friday evening.

K.C.:

I see, Friday evening services.

R.S.:

Friday evening services.

K.C.:

That's an old chest you have there.

R.S.:

Trunk.

K.C.:

Trunk, right.

R.S.:

That was my first husband's.

K.C.:

Is that right?

R.S.:

1915, and I wouldn't give that up for anything.

K.C.:

That's been around.

R.S.:

I refinished that.

K.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative), it looks in good condition.

R.S.:

Yeah, I refinished that.

K.C.:

You were... Carolyn Neustadt at the Federation told me that you had gone to Frankfurt with them to lobby for the [crosstalk 00:52:11].

R.S.:

That's right, with Arthur Kling.

K.C.:

Right, right.

R.S.:

With Arthur Kling.

K.C.:

Are you working with Mr. Kling much?

R.S.:

Not right now I'm not. Not right now I'm not.

K.C.:

What was going to Frankfurt like, and becoming involved there? What was that like?

R.S.:

We were there mostly as a rooting...

K.C.:

Cheering gallery.

R.S.:

A cheering gallery for the different things that we wanted. He put through... Now there's a wonderful man.

K.C.:

Yeah.

R.S.:

Did you get his?

K.C.:

Yeah, we've interviewed him.

R.S.:

Oh, now there's a wonderful man.

K.C.:

He's very active.

R.S.:

Oh, he still is. He still is.

K.C.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative), 88-years-old. Or 83.

R.S.:

Something like that.

K.C.:

He's in his 80s anyway.

R.S.:

In his 80s.

K.C.:

And then, you were named... You told me in 1975 you were named woman of the year.

R.S.:

Yes. Come here, and I'll show it to you.

K.C.:

Okay.

R.S.:

... things we've done.

K.C.:

Yeah.

R.S.:

And I've got them all stuck away.

K.C.:

How- of course, you've been- you've lived outside of this city and all, but just from your experience with the Jewish community in Louisville during the times you've been here, how has it changed over the years?

R.S.:

Well, I think they are not as close as they used to be. Now when I was first married, we didn't play cards, we didn't have time. We had to help, I always helped in the store. I always helped, and there's many a time... I used to come home from the store and do my work. Wash, iron, had time to sew and cook toward the next day. Things like that, you know? And we were very close. And not having any children it hit me very hard. I'm quite certain of that.

K.C.:

Oh, is that so?

R.S.:

We were married not quite 38 years.

K.C.:

Yeah, yeah. You mentioned early on, before we started taping that your family was a member of the shul at Brook Street, Adath Jesherun.

R.S.:

Yes.

K.C.:

That your father didn't attend-

R.S.:

Too regularly, no.

K.C.:

Too regularly, no. And, you're still a member of that shul?

R.S.:

Well, for a while I wasn't. For a while when I married my first husband, he was a member of the Anshei Sfard. Then I went back. Then, when I married my second husband, he was a member of the Adath Jesherun, which I had originally belonged to. And so, I still am a member there.

K.C.:

Uh-huh (affirmative), uh-huh. Okay. Tell me a little about your... You told me that you have some literary ambitions, that you sit down and write. You said your-

R.S.:

-I could write.

K.C.:

-humor has gotten you through-

R.S.:

-yeah, that's right.

K.C.:

-a lot of the times. Is your humor still...

R.S.:

Sometimes, sure. It sure is, it sure is. Uh-huh [affirmative]. I wrote a little article. Do you know Rosalie Brownstein?

K.C.:

No. I don't. No, I don't.

R.S.:

You ought to get hers. Of course, she's a very intelligent person.

K.C.:

Brownstein you said.

R.S.:

Rosalie Brownstein, certainly. I know her well, she knows me well. She's done a lot for me, when I used to be... When I was down and had problems. Could always go to her.

K.C.:

Yeah.

R.S.:

And, she was giving us a course on creative writing.

K.C.:

Oh, very good.

R.S.:

So, I wrote a couple of little things-

K.C.:

Oh, you did? Good.

R.S.:

I wrote about the farm, but I don't know what I did with it. I couldn't... I never thought about it you know, I stick things here, there, and everywhere.

K.C.:

Yeah, things get lost. Things get lost. Do you have any last words for the tape anyway?

R.S.:

No, I don't know what they would be, but I have enjoyed it very much. I have enjoyed it very much.

K.C.:

I want to thank you very much.

R.S.:

You're welcome.

K.C.:

It's been nice going through your life with you.

R.S.:

Well, just turn this-