Interview with Alex Berman, November 28, 1978

Ken Chumbly: This is Ken Chumbley of the University of Louisville Oral History Center. The date is November 28, 1978. I am interviewing today Mr. Alex Berman at his law office at 812 Marion E. Taylor Building. This interview is part of our Jewish Oral History Project.

Mr. Berman, let's begin with the beginning. Tell me as much as you remember about your mother and your father.

Alex Berman: I was born in Louisville, Kentucky on September 7, 1906. My father's name was Myer Berman and my mother's name was Esther Dora Berman. Her 1:00maiden name was Shpindler. My parents were both born in Europe. My Mother was born in Grodno, which was a part of Poland at her birth which was in 1868. My Father was born in Covno. That was also a part of Poland. He was born in 1866. 2:00My parents were married in Louisville in 1888 and my Father died in Louisville in 1935 and my Mother died in Louisville in 1944.

KC: How did they come to America from Poland?

AB: Things in Poland and in most parts of Europe and Russia were very desperate for the Jewish people at that time. That was during the period when they were having the czars and they were very hostile towards the Jewish people. One of 3:00the things that especially Jews feared in Russia and in countries associated with Russia was serving in the armies. They had to serve in the army and that was almost like slave labor and it was very common for Jews in particular to try to escape those countries to avoid military service.

Various means were used to escape service. In the first place, it was not that 4:00they were disloyal to the countries where they lived; they were loyal, but these people were not treated fairly. They were mistreated and that was why they did not want to serve. Serving in the military, according to my information, was not as we understand it in this country where actually you are in the military service - but there, it was almost like slave labor and it was called military service, which in fact, it was not. And that was why many of these Jewish people wanted to leave those countries.

KC: Did your mother or father tell you about conditions in Poland and Russia?

AB: Yes they did. But not in great detail. I was one of nine children and was 5:00next to the youngest. And this type of thing was not of interest to me at that time and my parents related these stories to my older brothers and sisters, but it was not related to me in great d tail except as I've just indicated that this is why these people wanted to leave.

KC: What did your father do in Covna? Was he too young to work?

AB: He was a young man. He and a brother came to this country. My Father was the eldest of eight children. So he and the brother next to him whose name was 6:00Nathan Berman came here and as I understand it, a cousin also came along with them from Europe by the name of Simon Ades. Simon Ades subsequently became a very fine and respected citizen of Louisville and was a very successful businessman and raised a fine large family in Louisville. My Father and his brother Nathan and Simon Ades came here about the same time.

They did not have much in the way of finance. They didn't have much in the way of organizations to receive _and accept foreigners. They had all of the problems that foreigners had when they came to this country. They had problems with the language. They did not understand or speak English. They had very little, if any, money. They had the problem of religious differences or really there was a type of persecution in those times of a different religion. They were ridiculed 8:00and there was a lot of hostility. The reason was that the American people did not know, they were not aware, and it was because of their own lack of knowledge about people who were different than the people in this community. They were not mean people and cruel people, but they just didn't understand and did not have the knowledge of making these people feel comfortable in the community, although my parents did become well established in the community as did many people from 9:00European countries.

But they were beset with many problems and different situations than we face today, where if people come from whatever country it is - Russia, Israel, Poland, Germany or Mexico - there are organizations that are either sponsored or funded Federally who will take these people under their wing and will provide adequate housing for them, will provide schools for the children, will teach the parents the language, will educate them, and do everything to integrate these 10:00people into the mainstream of American life which, of course, is a wonderful thing, but is much different than it used to be. I feel that we do not give people of that generation, and rm speaking of those people who came into this country in the late 18001s1 including my parents, who were able to raise large families.

We were nine children, and I could name them if you would want me to, starting with my oldest brother, Hyman, was born in Louisville in 1890 and he died in 1951. Next was my brother Isaac, born in 1892 and died in 1960; my brother, Dennis born in 1896 and died in 1970; my brother, Morris born in 1898, died in 1963; my sister Rose born in 1899 and she is still living in Louisville with her husband Louis M. Shuster; then my sister, Hannah born in 1902, married to Herbert E. Sher and moved to Florida where they lived for the past 50 years and 12:00he died about ten years ago; then my brother, William born in 1903 and died in 1966; and myself born in 1906 and my sister, 'Lillian who is the youngest, born in 1909 who was married to Solace Goldberg who died about 15-20 years ago. Sol was a lawyer, practiced law and was in the machinery business. He and his family were pioneers in Louisville in the automobile industry, the used parts. They had 13:00a used parts business on East Market Street called Louisville Auto Parts Company and that was a unique business in those days. Automobiles were much rarer than they are today. His family still runs the business.

KC: You mentioned that your father and his brother and cousin came here in the late 1880's. How did they get here? Did they work their way across Europe?

AB: They were able to get enough money from the friends and the large family 14:00over there. And they were able to get enough money together to finance the trip here. When we talk about the money to make a trip from Poland or Russia to this country, we are not talking about the same kind of money that we would be talking about today. There were various types of passage. There was steerage which was put in the bottom of a ship and other grades. And as I understand it, they came in the very lowest class possible and they brought with them enough 15:00food for the trip and with the little money that they could get.

And then when they came to this country, there was a Jewish organization that was formed and operated in New York. Now I'm not sure of this name, but it seems it was called Hais. I may not be accurate about that, but I think there was some organization that did what they could to help the newcomers and they would try to advise them as much as they could as to where to go in the United States to settle. They would try to keep the people from remaining in New York or Philadelphia or Baltimore wherever they frequently arrived on the seacoast 16:00cities and try to get them into the interior part of the country where they would be able to have a better opportunity of establishing a life for themselves.

KC: Did your father and brother and cousin then immigrate to Louisville?

AB: Yes. They came as I recall, as I've been told, from Baltimore. They arrived in Baltimore and then they stayed there just a short period of time and they came to Louisville. And when they came here, they each tried to do what they could. Now I do not know exactly how my father and brother, Nathan Berman, what 17:00he did nor what Mr. Simon Ades did.

But they both, I think, went into some type of selling of merchandise. But I do know that my father immediately became what they call a peddler and he would go into the country with a pack on his back and call on the country people and the farmers, selling them such items as he was able to carry. That was not a very vast line of merchandise, but it consisted of clothing and I think some pots and 18:00pans and incidental items that were useful in a home. There were many peddlers. There were many people who did this type of thing, this was not a unique business for my father, but he was one of quite a few who did that. He peddled on foot for quite some time and thereafter he was able to get a horse and wagon, and when he did that, he was able to, of course, carry more merchandise and sell 19:00more merchandise. When they went into the country, they would be gone for a couple of days at a time, because the transportation was so difficult and they would spend the night with the farmers, have meals with them, and they made good friends this way. Many of the country people especially were very kind and helpful to these peddlers.

KC: Did he operate mostly in Kentucky or did he go into Indiana?

AB: He operated mostly in Kentucky, primarily in Shelby County, Shelbyville, Mt. Eden and through there, and he developed a very good business through there. In 20:00fact, when he opened up a business in Louisville and I think that his first store was on Market Street near Preston. This was done when he was quite a young man, and to the best of my recollection, this was done in about 1888 or thereabouts where he first opened a store around Preston and Market in Louisville.

KC: A general merchandise store?

AB: It was a general merchandise store, and he got a lot of trade from people in 21:00Shelby County. Now he kept a close contact with people from the country. In the first place, he liked country people, he liked to go on farms, he liked animals, and he enjoyed looking at the garden products and farm products. He just enjoyed that and he enjoyed the people, and he encouraged trade with the country people.

Now he had an opportunity in the location that he was to keep in contact with farmers, because the hay market was located in the area where his business was 22:00situated. Now the hay market stretched from about Brook to Preston Street on Jefferson from Jefferson to Liberty, and every day the farmers from the adjoining area here would come to market with their horse and wagons, and would bring their product to the market where they rented a stall and the hay market was a private company as I understand it, and they rented stall to the people by the day or hour, I don't know exactly how it was, but they would come in and they would go into the stall and display their merchandise. And the people from 23:00Louisville and adjoining areas would come there to shop every morning, buy their vegetables and fruits and after many of these country people would sell their merchandise, they would have the money and come over and trade with my father.

He later moved to a store on Market between Second and Third. It was 216 and 218 West Market Street. And this is where I was born in 1906. By that time, he was a pretty well established merchant, and he continued to attract country trade. And 24:00he concentrated on that.

I remember very well when I was growing up, just a very young child, it would be my job - and one that I enjoyed doing - to visit the Haymarket at about 4:00 in the morning and distribute little memorandum books to each of the farmers. I'd go through the aisles and the farm rows where the farmers were displaying their merchandise, and pass out these memorandum books and often there would be a handbill in them of some kind of special sale and giving them to the farmers, 25:00and inviting them to come by the store.

The name of the store was Myer Berman and the emblem that he used was a bear, and written across the bear was the word, 'man'. Bearman is how many people pronounced the name; in fact the name was pronounced as though it was special Bearman, but actually it was Berman. But anyhow, that was the emblem that he used, and we would go to the market at least once a week to distribute either the books and the farmers would look forward to it. It had information which was interesting to farmers it would give the weights of various products per bushel or barrel and the metric measurements and--

KC: Was it like an almanac?

AB: Sort of like an almanac, but very concise and compact, where they could keep their records of what they'd bought and sold, and they looked forward to that.

In fact, about 10 years ago I was settling an estate for a man, and he came in and he said I believe I have something that you might be interested in. And he handed me one of these little books that his father had received in 1921 and still kept it. So it was interesting to receive that. Anyhow, that was the type of advertising that was done. After our business was at 216 and 218, we expanded 27:00and my Father wanted to enlarge the business, so he then bought the buildings known as 220 and 222 West Market. That's between Second and Third on the South side of the street. I might say in passing that while we are 216 and 218, right behind us was a very famous playhouse called the Buckingham Theatre which was on Jefferson Street and it backed into our backyard, and many of the fine actors and actresses, and especially comedians got their start at the Buckingham Theatre.

It was a place that was not known especially for opera or the highest type of cultural entertainment, but for the comedians and that type that had a national reputation. And I was quite popular with the young boys of my age, because I could invite them to come over to my backyard and play there where we lived 29:00upstairs from the business. And I'd invite them to come over to play and we then had the opportunity to peek through the wooden fence that was at the back of our yard and watch the actresses especially as they were getting ready to go on stage, because the back of the stage adjoined our property, but was separated by an alley that ran from Second and Third Street. So that was quite an experience to have that view of the actresses. The neighborhood where we lived at 216 and 30:00218 was not entirely a business area, although it was primarily a business area. But a few families, including ourselves, lived above the stores. When we moved and bought the property at 220 and 222; there were no residents above the stores, so we then moved to Fourth and Hill Street to the Belvedere Apartments, and that was a very fine residential area.

At the time that we built the store at 220 and 222, my father had associated 31:00with him all of the sons, including myself, six boys, and all of us were in the business. And my three sisters were not in the business, nor were their husbands. This had advantages and disadvantages. We had great respect for our 32:00parents and a great respect for our father and the disadvantage of six boys being in business with their father again is that the boys did not have much opportunity for self-expression. And because we had such respect for our father and his opinions, all the decisions were made by him, although our opinions were asked for and sought and we gave them, we were always careful to give them in the manner that he would approve. As a result of that, the business did not get 33:00the new ideas that it should have had with that many people identified with it. Along these lines, when this building was built it wasn't built from the ground up.

They were two buildings that had been occupied by a furniture store and they were remodeled and made very modern for that time. An elevator was installed, the newest kind of heat, the newest kind of lighting, and there were four floors, and we handled men, women and children's clothing and furniture. And 34:00that was the largest store at that time that was owned and operated by an Orthodox Jewish person. There were other stores, department stores, but they were owned by German Jews and farm Jews. But this store was the largest retail store owned by an Orthodox Jew in Louisville at that time.

Some of the things that were done to encourage business and unique sales 35:00promotion were the practice around the Easter holidays and many people still remember that we would give away live rabbits with each boy's suit and this would be publicized weeks before Easter and the parents would come with the children, the boys, and buy and suit and get a live rabbit. There were many children, boys, who did not know what kind of suit they were getting, but knew 36:00exactly what kind of rabbit they wanted. And they were more concerned about the rabbit than the suit, but that was a great sales promotion. Also we had a live bear that we owned and had a man haul it in a horse and wagon and visit the schools where the bear would be exhibited. It had a few tricks that it did and it became quite popular.

KC: Were these your father's ideas or the boys'?

AB: Well, it was father's and the boys. There was not any differentiation, the 37:00boys could suggest and do whatever they wanted, but they just cooperated. There was great cooperation between everybody. The business progressed and was a very successful business until the depression of 1930 and like so many other businesses, it had its problems.

Now I'd like to talk a little bit about the neighborhood of Market Street between Second and Third. As I say, this was primarily businesses and just some 38:00residents above the stores. The places that surrounded us across the street were what was known as the German Bank and during the First World War, the name of that bank was changed from the German Bank to Liberty National Bank and that bank was very well known and popular bank until during the depression, it had 39:00its problems but did solve them and later moved its location to Jefferson Street between Fourth and Fifth. Of course this has been recently--Also in that neighborhood - and they are still there - are Levy Brothers at Third and Market. Colonel Fred Levy was the President of that company at that time, and that was 40:00considered the bright spot of Louisville. There used to be a saying that when you wanted to describe something glamorous and glittering, they'd say, "it's lit up like Levy Brothers." That was their image of having a bright, beautiful store, which it was. Colonel Fred Levy and my father were quite good friends, and they foresaw the need for making parking available on Market Street, so they 41:00jointly developed a parking lot on Main Street between Third and Second, the purpose being to serve the merchants in that area. A corporation was formed called the Main Street Parking Company, I believe, and each of the merchants purchased stock in that corporation and the parking lot still remains, but all the stock now is practically owned by Levy Brothers and it's used for their parking lot.

KC: You said Colonel Fred Levy. Was he the founder of the store?

AB: Well, I think that Colonel Fred Levy and some of his brothers were the founders of the store.

KC: Was Colonel an honorary title?

AB: It was an honorary title. But Colonel Fred Levy is one of the outstanding leaders of the Jewish community. A very fine man, articulate, wealthy, prestigious and also handsome. And that family still owns the store.

KC: Is that building over here the original building?

AB: Yes, the building on Third and Market is the original building. Now over on the other corner on the Southeast corner of Third and Market, was Loevenhart's. 43:00That was an old business of men's fine clothing store and family owned. They were there for many years and left that location about 6 or 7 years ago and business which is now owned and operated by Lee Grossman, who was the grandson 44:00of the founder. They are now located in Oxmoor and have remained one of the fine clothing stores.

One of the things I remember very vividly on talking about the store being at Third and Market was the sections held by the Salvation Army on the corner of Third Street and Market. Every Saturday night, the Salvation Army Bank would appear and their speakers and the other participants of the program playing 45:00music, religious songs, they were very beautiful and very impressive. They would have the drum lying flat, requesting people to contribute money for their purposes. I can recall how crowded it was when this group would come. The people would crowd around and listen to the talks and music and participated in the 46:00singing that they sometimes had Saturday night on Market Street 50 years ago was a place of great excitement and great crowds. From noon on Saturdays until 10:00 at night, people were almost shoulder to shoulder between Brook and Fourth - people shopping and socializing, primarily doing their shopping. The merchants 47:00waited for Saturdays to determine whether the week would be a successful one or not a successful one, depending on how much business there was on Saturday night. That determined whether or not the week was good.

The street also had a lot of other little shops on it, Rudoloph Bauer's Candy Store was located on the same street. Next to Rudolph Bauer's there was a 48:00dentist's office, Dr. Harry Gulanter. He had his office on the second floor of the building, and his family lived up above the store. The emblem he used was a big replica of a tooth, about 4 feet high. He had a big doorway leading up to his office and there was a controversy between him and the dental association of whether having that tooth was unprofessional advertisement. But he did prevail, 49:00and as I explained he practiced there for many years. Later, he moved his office to one of the office buildings.

One of my first recollections of Cody's Security are related to the Market Street area between Second and Third on the street where we lived. One of my first recollections of Cody Security are related to the Market Street area between Second and Third on the street where we lived or where we had our business, there was a man called Colonel Larkin. He was called merchant police. 50:00His duty was to go up and down Market Street and part of Fourth Street to deal with doors and look around the property and make sure that everything was secure.

The unique part about the operation was that he had two beautiful German Shepherd police dogs that he used in his work and they would go into the stores or upstairs, wherever necessary to search out any prowlers or any problems. We do not associate security problems with 50 or 60 years ago, but they did exist 51:00in that time. It is also interesting to note that after Colonel Larkin retired, his business was taken over by his son who incidentally used to accompany his father on these surveys he made to various businesses. And his son learned the business and remained in the field of security and became the sherriff of Jefferson County. Jim Larkin was our sherriff, had done that type of work, and carried on the tradition of his father.

KC: What was your father's relationship to other merchants, particularly reformed Jewish merchants?

AB: The relationship of my father with other merchants in the community was excellent. My father was very gentle, courteous, intelligent and fair person. He was an officer of the congregation to which he belonged.

KC: Which congregation was that?

AB: Originally the name Jacob. The first recollection I have it was located on Jefferson Street between Preston and Jackson, across the street from the 53:00firehouse. My father was treasurer of that congregation for many years and was always an officer. From my earliest recollection until the time he passed away, he was an officer of the congregation. He was also on the Board of the Jewish Children's Home. He was a member of the Oddfellows Fraternal Organization. He was a member and an officer of the Market Street Merchants Association, but his relationship with merchants and with all people was excellent.

KC: What about in the Jewish community - were the reformed Jews and the Orthodox Jews coexisting peacefully?

AB: There was as much - integration is not exactly the word. They were not as close 50 or 60 years ago as they are today, and there are many reasons for that. I suppose that the economy is one of the differences. Back in those days, the European Jews - I distinguish those from German Jews, they're all from Europe -- 55:00but the Jews from countries other than Germany came here later and the German Jews were pretty well established and had gained some financial success and I guess social success too. It took some time before the other Jews from Russia or Poland or those countries could obtain any financial stature. But in the past 25 years, they have become more secure financially than were the German Jews.

KC: Would you say that there was ever any hostility between the two?

AB: I don't think there was any hostility as such between the two. Their cultures were a little different. The German Jews just felt that they were superior socially and financially--And financially, they were. But the Orthodox Jews participated in everything and established synagogues, Hebrew schools, they participated in the construction of the Jewish Hospital, and they did all of 57:00these things for establishing the Jewish people as a whole. There was always great unity in all segments of the Jewish community cooperated to make this a very well-rounded Jewish community. This was the smallest city in the country that had a Jewish Hospital supported by the Jewish people.What we now know as the Jewish Community Center used to be known as the YMHA and it was one of the 58:00earliest in the country and one of the best in the country. There were many leaders of YMHA groups in other parts of the country who came to Louisville and got their training for the YMHA.

KC: Do you think among the reformed Jews there was greater effort to become assimilated into American culture, that is to perhaps shed some "Jewishness"?

AB: I don't think so. I don't think so intentionally. It may have happened, but 59:00not as something that they were wittingly doing, but circumstances and conditions may have created that, may have necessitated that. I guess one who gets to a community at first has to adjust himself to those conditions and situations that exist or advance when others come in. But all segments of the Jewish community are well aligned with each other. There are so many differences especially financial which separate all people which does not exist today. Many 60:00of our people 50 or 60 years ago were the wealthy people of the community are not the wealthy people in the community. And those who came here who had nothing are now more financially endowed than others. So I don't think we generalize on that anymore.

KC: You mentioned that the Orthodox Jews established Hebrew schools and 61:00synagogues and the like when they arrived here. From your experience with your Orthodox family, was Jewish tradition and the whole culture emphasized by your parents?

AB: Well, it was emphasized and we practiced Orthodoxy as well as we could. We still do. For example on holidays, on Rosh Hashanah and Yorn Kippur, the day of atonement, the New Year is two days observed and all of the Orthodox businesses 62:00were closed for two days and then on Yorn Kippur they were all closed. Now most of the reformed businesses were closed 50-60 years ago on those days. Now there were a very few who conducted their businesses, but all of the Orthodox businesses were closed. On Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah, you would walk along Market Street which is where many of the Jewish stores were located, and they 63:00would be almost completely closed, the whole block. And on Preston Street where the Jewish delicatessen and groceries and businesses who served the Jewish community were located were also closed.