Interview with Anita Goldin, June 6, 1979

Mary Bobo:

This is Mary Bobo, of the UofL Oral History Project, today is June 6th, 1979. I'm talking with Mrs. Anita Goldin, she was born in Louisville, KY and presently lives in Beales Branch Road. Her parents were Sarah Bell and Moses W. Ades. Mrs. Goldin, I believe that your parents are natives of Louisville, would you start-

Anita Goldin:

No, my parents weren't natives of Louisville.

M.B.:

Okay. Would you [crosstalk 00:00:41]-

A.G.:

Yes, okay.

M.B.:

How they came to come to Louisville?

A.G.:

All right. My father came to Louisville in about 1887 or 1889, when he was four or seven years old, something like that. He came with a sister, because his mother and father were already here, and he was the youngest of a family of eight. And for some reason or other, he came with his sister. I don't know why. 1:00So, he came at an early age, but he was born in Lithuania.

M.B.:

In Lithuania.

A.G.:

My mother was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, and came to Louisville when she married my father, in 1923.

M.B.:

Do you remember, or know anything about their meeting, were they involved in the same synagogue, or families-

A.G.:

No. They met through a mutual friend. My father was 47 years old when he married, my mother was 37. My father was a very eligible bachelor, and he had some friends here who somehow knew my mother, in Cincinnati, and invited her to come down and meet him.

A.G.:

And they fell in love, and then they corresponded for a long time. The courtship was by mail, and I have all their letters. Which I really haven't read, because 2:00it was like an intrusion. I mean, they're in the basement and I haven't ... I started them, and then I got very uncomfortable. Very beautiful letters, written in a very Victorian style, with the very flowery handwriting, and a lot of sentimentalism, and gushiness, you know. Of a different era. But anyway.

A.G.:

My mother was evidently very beautiful, and she had strawberry blonde hair, curly. My father always wanted to marry a woman with strawberry blonde hair, and that's about all I know about it.

M.B.:

Were there other children, in your family?

A.G.:

No. I'm the only child.

M.B.:

What business was your father in?

A.G.:

He was in the Pittsburgh Fuel Company. He was in the coal business, and the name of it was the Pittsburgh Fuel Company. The company disbanded in 1950.

M.B.:

Do you know anything about his childhood? Do you remember family members telling you anything about where they lived, at this time?

A.G.:

The unfortunate thing about my parents is that they didn't talk about their childhoods. It was kind of strange.

M.B.:

So, you don't know what location they were in?

A.G.:

Oh, I know the area of town that my father grew up in.

M.B.:

Where was this?

A.G.:

Yeah, well, I guess, at a later period, probably around Chestnut Street, maybe even the early period around Chestnut Street, and then to Second Street. I think people moved out a little bit.

M.B.:

Out towards the monument, sort of.

A.G.:

Yeah, right.

M.B.:

I think you said.

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M.B.:

Do you know what synagogue they were attending, at the time you were a child?

A.G.:

Oh. Well, the time I was a child, sure. But I don't know what synagogue my father's parents and he belonged to. But when I was a child [crosstalk 00:04:02] 4:00... yeah. Adath Jeshurun.

M.B.:

Okay.

A.G.:

Yeah.

M.B.:

And you remember being there yourself?

A.G.:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

M.B.:

[inaudible 00:04:09].

A.G.:

Oh yeah. Yeah, I went to Sunday School there, and hated it. As everyone else did. And we made life miserable for the teachers, and I was forced to go to Hebrew School, which was very unusual for girls. Most girls didn't have to go to Hebrew School, but I had to go, and I was very bad, and one time I got kicked out of the class.

M.B.:

Would you say this was one of many things that you felt that made your early childhood particularly Jewish? Was there anything else that you-

A.G.:

Well, my-

M.B.:

... besides having to go to Hebrew School?

A.G.:

Oh, well my parents kept a kosher home. Which means that they had two sets of dishes, and my mother bought kosher meat, and she koshered it, which is something that makes a big impression upon a child. She would go to the market 5:00every Thursday, because we lived in the Highlands, when I was growing up, and the kosher butchers were down in the market. She'd go down Thursday, my father would come from work and take her down to market, and she'd get the fish at one place, and she'd get the chickens live, in another place, and then take them to be slaughtered in the ritual way, and she would go to the kosher butcher shop.

A.G.:

And then she'd come home, and she'd open up the chicken on the kitchen table. But you know, all that, that made an impression on me, because she had to buy her meat in a certain place. And so that sort of made it a Jewish home, and a Jewish way of life. I used to go with her, occasionally, down to the market, I used to love to go. All the Jewish women went there.

M.B.:

Can you describe the market, at that time, how it looked?

A.G.:

No. I couldn't. I couldn't describe it. I just remember the women that picked the feathers off the chickens. I remember those women, sitting around plucking the chickens, that's all I can remember. And being in a fruit store. We used to go to Polio's. I remember old Mr. Polio, and I remember, I don't know, I mean, he had his favorites, and it was a whole world. A lot of gossip and all that.

M.B.:

It was something you knew as a child, and sort of accepted and enjoyed it when you went down there, I guess.

A.G.:

I don't know if I enjoyed it. I guess I did. Yeah, I guess I did. But it made an impression. I'll never forget those market days. Thursday was market day, and that was really market day, and my father would bring my mother home, because my mother didn't drive. In those days we used the bus, for like, going downtown. Going downtown was going to Fourth Street. On Saturday, to shop, or go to a 7:00movie, and go to lunch.

A.G.:

In terms of being Jewish, on the holidays, on the very religious days, my parents didn't, my father didn't drive the car. Like, on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, and we'd go to the synagogue, which was downtown, on the bus. I know I used to feel very self conscious being out of school, and everyone else was in school.

M.B.:

But you would be out, from what time during the day on Friday? Would you take the whole day off, or-

A.G.:

No, this is for a special holiday, like, on a special-

M.B.:

Oh, just a special-

A.G.:

... high holy day.

M.B.:

Yes.

A.G.:

When all the Jews would stop their work, or going to school, and would go to the synagogue.

M.B.:

Well, where did you go to school, yourself?

A.G.:

I went to Belknap, and Highland Junior High, in Atherton, when I was the girls' school. Atherton on Morton Avenue.

M.B.:

Did you continue as you went into adulthood, to know many of the same people 8:00that you went to school with, has your life centered on the same families?

A.G.:

No. I went away to college. I went to Cornell, and I was gone for three and a half years. And then when I came home, I worked for a while, and then I got married. My world enlarged, and a lot of people moved to Louisville, after the Second World War, and very often I would be in a community of people where there were no native Louisvillians. So, I would say I didn't continue with the same people that I had gone to school with, a Louisville group, original group.

M.B.:

Well, your family, as you were becoming a young woman, what would you say that their main involvement in the total Jewish community was?

A.G.:

Oh. Well, my-

M.B.:

At that point.

A.G.:

Oh, well. My mother was a President of Hadassah. Do you want me to elaborate on what Hadassah is? All right.

M.B.:

But you can tell a tiny little bit.

A.G.:

I mean-

M.B.:

That's fine.

A.G.:

Well ... it's an international women's Zionist organization that maintains hospitals in Israel and helps young people go to Israel, and has all kinds of projects there, and some in the United States. My mother was an ardent worker in Hadassah, and was the President of Hadassah. In addition to that, my mother was on the board of ... it's now called the Louisville Jewish Federation. But at the time when she was on the board, I can't remember what it was called. It wasn't the Federation, it was something else, but it was the same. The Conference of Jewish Organizations is what it was called.

A.G.:

My father was one of the original founders of that Conference of Jewish Organizations. He was among the few people that started it, at a time when Hitler was rising in Europe, and there was a need for the communities to organize, and to do what they could.

M.B.:

And your father saw this, and felt this-

A.G.:

Yeah.

M.B.:

... from here in Louisville?

A.G.:

Yeah. My father was among others who started the Conference of Jewish Organizations, which is now the Louisville Jewish Federation.

M.B.:

Do you know of others, names particular-

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M.B.:

... that were active with him?

A.G.:

Well, one of them was Charles Strull, who was a very fine citizen of Louisville, and an outstanding astronomer, among other things, and a Zionist. Another man, Leo [Walco 00:10:50], who was one of the early Zionists in this community. Those two names come to mind, in terms of people that my father was involved with. But 11:00I grew up with talk about Hadassah, about the Jewish community, and its needs, and Zionism. I mean, this was the conversation, at the dinner table for me, I was brought up on this.

M.B.:

Well, this is one of the things, I ask, you know, what were they really trying to get at, and I think this is one of the things we are trying to find out, is how these organizations started. What led people to say, "All right, this is the kind of organization we need, as a group of individuals with a certain religious background." And to find out the times when they felt these things were most needed. Of course, I've talked with people quite at length about say, the Jewish Day School, and of course, the community center being established, from the older center, down town.

M.B.:

And so, this is the type of thing we really want to pinpoint, and say why, at this time in history, did people move forward and put so much effort into 12:00maintaining these organizations?

A.G.:

Well, to go back, now, in terms of my father and mother's activities, and these activities occur at a time, I was growing up. We're talking about from the early 1930s on. My father, well, actually, the founding of what was the YMHA, which became the Jewish Community Center, I mean, my father was on the original board of that. He was part of the beginning of that, also.

A.G.:

Now, that was before the '30s. I don't know when the YMHA was founded, probably in what, about 1918, or something like that?

M.B.:

I believe so.

A.G.:

So, he was part of that. By the time I was born, my father wasn't particularly active, in terms of the lay leadership of the YMHA. But I myself was very 13:00involved, in terms of going there, as a child, and taking classes there. I remember the YMHA very vividly.

M.B.:

I've heard people older than you, much older than you, speak of social clubs being [crosstalk 00:13:16] of the YMHA.

A.G.:

That's right. Yeah.

M.B.:

And this was really the center of their social life.

A.G.:

Oh.

M.B.:

Was going, you know, to the various things that were connected with this, prior to it moving out, of course, on Dutchmans Lane. But there wasn't a feeling though, that there was something unique that you needed to join together, to feel a sense of community about- [crosstalk 00:13:42].

A.G.:

We were a community. We were a very tight knit community, and we felt this sense of community. I mean, this was felt in my family, anyway.

M.B.:

Do you feel that there was a feeling of pressure, that you should join together because of the forces that might be moving against you, that you have any 14:00feeling of antisemitism?

A.G.:

No.

M.B.:

In the community at that point?

A.G.:

We-

M.B.:

Because we're talking now-

A.G.:

... joined together-

M.B.:

... about the '30s, as you're saying-

A.G.:

We joined together, joining together was not something new that was a response to anything political, in the political environment. I mean, the Jewish people in Europe had lived together. We were forced to, and they came here, and they again, supported each other, and took care of each other, here. That was a tradition, it's always been tradition for Jews, I guess as long as Jews have been exiled from their homeland, over the years.

M.B.:

Do you remember any of the Russian Jews coming? I mean, the German Jews coming into the country?

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M.B.:

During those years, and-

A.G.:

Yeah-

M.B.:

... were you involved in any of this, or-

A.G.:

Well, no, my parents-

M.B.:

... the settlement of them?

A.G.:

No, my parents were not involved in the resettlement of people either fleeing 15:00from Nazi Germany, or after the war, coming here, to find a new life. No. My parents were never involved in that kind of activity. I personally knew people who came, who escaped from Germany before there was no chance to get out, and I knew these people when they came. I mean, I still see them all the time. I was aware of the fact that these other kids were coming from Germany.

M.B.:

And the Jewish community was doing a great deal to help them get settled-

A.G.:

No.

M.B.:

... is my understanding.

A.G.:

They probably did, but I have no knowledge of that. I wasn't aware of it. Because the main interest in my home was Zionism, in terms of the international situation in Israel, the establishment of the state of Israel was very precious to my parents, their life was geared to this dream. And the other part was, in the running of the community itself, because the ... not the Federation, but 16:00what did I call it? What was the name-

M.B.:

The Council.

A.G.:

... the Council of Jewish Organizations. That had to do with allocating funds, for the various organizations, and I remember the budget. My mother used to always talk, she was always trying to get money for her organization, which was Hadassah. They would try to get funds.

M.B.:

Do you think they ever entertained an idea of going to Israel, themselves?

A.G.:

Never.

M.B.:

[inaudible 00:16:34].

A.G.:

I don't think they realized that there would be a state of Israel. After it was established, well, my mother was still living, but they never talked about living there, no.

M.B.:

But they did see this, way back, as being something that had to happen.

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M.B.:

Let's move on, for just a few minutes. As we go into your adult life, and you said you were at Cornell, I believe.

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M.B.:

And then, did you work for a while, prior to your marriage, or-

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Very little while. For about a year, or less. I came back, and I worked for the Courier Journal, assisting with a food advertising page, called Penny Baker.

M.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). And then your husband-

A.G.:

I met him at the Speed Museum, and he was a resident, in cardiology, at the University of Louisville.

M.B.:

Well, as you began to form your own home, did you see many of the patterns repeating in your way of life, that you had had with your parents?

Speaker 3:

Hello.

M.B.:

We're talking about, as you began to establish your own home, whether or not you fell into the same patterns, or you were influenced by the home life you had with your parents.

A.G.:

Well, no.

M.B.:

Did you continue to keep a kosher home?

A.G.:

No. No. I had no intention of keeping a kosher home, and started out not. Then about a year after we were married, my mother died, and we went to live with my father. So, his home was kosher. We had a kosher home, for that period of time. Then, after that, my husband went into the Army, and he was sent to Korea, and I continued to live with my father, with a child. I had had a daughter in the meantime. And then, we went to Japan, and of course, we weren't kosher, and when we came back though, we went to live in a duplex, and Al's mother lived 19:00upstairs. My husband's mother. She's kosher.

A.G.:

At that time, I think I certainly was buying kosher meat. I didn't have two sets of dishes, but I was kind of kosher style. Now, I still buy kosher meat, and I have a sort of semi-kosher home. It's our own version. But I do buy kosher meat, and I don't have meat and milk together, at the same time.

M.B.:

Are you presently involved in a particular synagogue, in-

A.G.:

Yes. Still Adath Jeshurun. Yeah. Yeah.

M.B.:

And your children, they were brought up in the synagogue?

A.G.:

Our children went to the Jewish Day School. We seemed to have heard of the Day School.

M.B.:

Right.

A.G.:

Right. We were part of the original people, shortly after the establishment of the school, our daughter entered the school, my husband was a Treasurer for the School, for a long time. I worked very hard as a volunteer, for the school.

M.B.:

This seems to be as close to the hearts of many people, that I've talked to, as almost any institution here in Louisville, in the Jewish community. In talking with a lady the other day, I said, "Why did you see this as a necessity? Why did you choose this over the public schools, for your children? Did you do it mainly for the religious instruction that they would be receiving during this time?"

A.G.:

I didn't. We wanted our children to learn Hebrew, and as you, if you remember, I said I had to go to Hebrew School, and I didn't like it, and I didn't like Sunday School, because I remember how I felt as a child, when I had to take my after school time and go to Hebrew School, and it was just too much. So, the Day School seemed to be a solution to that kind of problem, because the kids could get their Hebrew instruction in their school hours, and have time afterwards, 21:00and that was really why I wanted-

M.B.:

It was really more cohesive, as far as the whole family unit was concerned, for them to get these things in-

A.G.:

Yeah.

M.B.:

... in the school day, I would think.

A.G.:

Well, I just didn't like going to school after school, when I was a child, and this seemed to be an answer, and it seemed to be a good way to get a Jewish education within the regular school period, and to grow up as an educated Jew. It seemed the answer, because I didn't think the Sunday School was the answer.

M.B.:

Well, as you look back over going to the same synagogue, over a long period of years, now, do you see any changes in the synagogue itself? Do you see maybe some traditions that have come more to the forefront, and some that have-

A.G.:

Oh, yeah.

M.B.:

... faded? Would you talk about these, for-

A.G.:

Oh yeah.

M.B.:

... a few minutes?

A.G.:

Well, when I was growing up, there weren't many bat mitzvahs, and now, many, many girls are bat mitzvah'd, and I know that I was very envious of the boys, 22:00because they could be bar mitzvah'd and I had to sort of just be a girl and stand in the background, and be left out. So, there is that. The girls are treated the same as the boys, which is very nice.

A.G.:

In addition to that, now women go up on the pulpit, and are a part of the service, can lead the service. Well, that's something very new. I mean, that's even, very recently, this has been established in our synagogue.

M.B.:

Are you seeing more young couples, say couples, coming into the community, continuing with orthodox community, or have you seen an exodus to the reform community, as you look back over the years?

A.G.:

I know my cousins, whose parents were members of an orthodox congregation in Louisville, they joined the reform Temple. As they became very affluent, they 23:00moved that way. It's a socio-economic thing, rather than any religious ideology involved.

M.B.:

So, you see that possibly the reform group might continue to grow at a more rapid pace?

A.G.:

There's been a trend back to this particular orthodox synagogue, what I'm trying to say is, as people become more affluent, as these young people, some of them, instead of going the path of joining the reform movement, corresponding to their affluence, they seem to be wanting something else, and are going to the orthodox. For a while, the orthodox congregations would be composed, I would 24:00say, of the older people, people of somewhat lower socio-economic status. But I see a trend towards a return to affiliation with an orthodox congregation by people who might have, 15 or 20 years ago, joined a reform congregation, because there's something there they're seeking for themselves and their children, which is a more Jewish life.

M.B.:

But at one time, we could have almost-

A.G.:

More traditional.

M.B.:

... divided it a little bit by the geographic-

A.G.:

Right.

M.B.:

... origins of people.

A.G.:

Geographic origins?

M.B.:

Well, so-

A.G.:

You mean, like, Germans-

M.B.:

German, or Russian.

A.G.:

Well, yeah. That was in the beginning.

M.B.:

In the beginning, here. But as we've moved into the '20s and the '30s, this is not really at any-

A.G.:

In the '20s and in the '30s, the congregations still were organized in that fashion. You found the people of German origin predominantly in the reform 25:00congregations, but I'd say, beginning with the '50s, when the affluence started, and the people who were in the orthodox congregation, the people who came from Eastern Europe, originally, their children, with greater affluence, there was a move to the reform congregation, so then the proportion of people from the German background became less.

A.G.:

Because the affluence, I think, of the community, occurred after the Second World War.

M.B.:

Oh.

A.G.:

I mean, there was a relationship between joining the reform congregation, just sort of leaping over the conservative, going from the orthodox.

M.B.:

Well, as we go back, and you sort of look at the entire community, and look on that orthodox reform tradition, what do you see as the most unifying thing, in this community, this particular Jewish community? What force or organization, or-

A.G.:

We are-

M.B.:

... activity-

A.G.:

We're a very unified Jewish community, and the unifying force is the Federation, which is the sort of, the overarching body that has the monetary control over the different organizations, and also, the board will determine a lot of policy that eventually affects all of us. And we all work, in terms of money raising, everyone participates in raising money to support our various agencies and institutions in the community. That's a very unifying thing. As far as a meeting place, for the physical unification, I would say the Jewish Community Center has been that. It's been fantastic for young people, for everybody. It's very important.

M.B.:

I've made this statement, before on tape, or to someone, that I feel, if I was a young Jewish couple, part of a Jewish couple, coming into the community, it would mean so much to me, to be able to know that these things were here, and to know I could immediately seek out a body that would have the same beliefs and values, and-

A.G.:

Oh yeah.

M.B.:

I would think, just in attracting young professionals to our city, doctors, educators and this type of thing, a strong community bond must be important to people as they consider moving maybe, from their own community here, too.

A.G.:

For many, I would say that's true.

M.B.:

As you look back, again, I keep telling you to go back.

A.G.:

That's all right.

M.B.:

But this is what we're trying to do.

A.G.:

I like to do that. I don't get to do it too often.

M.B.:

As you look back, over, starting even with your mother's leadership-

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M.B.:

... in Hadassah, and moving on through, what sort of people have tended to be leaders in the organizations?

A.G.:

Hmm.

M.B.:

Can we kind of wrap them up, personality-

A.G.:

Oh boy.

M.B.:

...wise? Not just Hadassah, but-

A.G.:

Oh, it's hard. There's so many different organizations, and different types of people. Personalities. Help me with this a little bit. Ask me some other kind of question that will help me to-

M.B.:

Well-

A.G.:

... organize my thinking.

M.B.:

Are they generally people that are just very people oriented, are they people that, again, have done this because of the Jewishness involved with a certain-

A.G.:

Some. I think that's the answer. Some are, because they have the Jewish tradition, they have come from maybe traditional homes and part of the education they've gotten in those homes has been that we help each other, and we are a 29:00community. Some of it stems from this Jewish tradition. Some. Some, others come from a tradition of sort of, civic responsibility, which really is more secular.

M.B.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

A.G.:

And I mean, I could name people, you know, that fit into these categories. But I won't.

M.B.:

We're just about to run out of tape on this, so I think we'll stop and turn it over, and begin, and talk about some of your involvement in the community, itself.

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M.B.:

Okay?

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M.B.:

Yeah.

A.G.:

All right, yeah.

M.B.:

We're continuing, and I'm talking with Anita Goldin, we've been talking about institutions, and about some of the things that she remembers of her parents' adult life, and their involvement in the total Jewish community, here in Louisville.

M.B.:

Time to zero in for a while now, on her own adult life, and organizations, and even her job that she presently holds, and some of the work that's being done in the Jewish community, right now.

M.B.:

I'm going to let you take it away, and you can start where you want to, on that.

A.G.:

Some of the organizations I've been involved with? Well, of course, I was a member of Hadassah, since I reached my ... when I was married, I was active in Hadassah, and then, in the days when my children were at the Jewish Day School, I was very active in the Day School, I was a member of the Council of Jewish Women, and used to participate especially in the study groups that they had.

A.G.:

There must be other things. I have never participated in Sisterhood, which is part of the synagogue. I never have worked for the synagogue. I've also been very active in United Jewish campaigns, as fundraising activities, and also, I was in charge of ... what was it? Oh my God. Speakers' Bureau, for the Jewish Federation. I did that for about three years, rather recently. But I've always worked with the Federation.

A.G.:

And Bonds [inaudible 00:31:43], oh yes, I've worked for Bonds [inaudible 00:31:46], also. There must be other things, I just can't remember.

M.B.:

This might be a good point, we were talking just a few minutes ago, about the difference in Hadassah, and this [inaudible 00:32:03] women's group. Would you like to explain the difference that you see, in the two groups?

A.G.:

Well, Hadassah is made up of women from all the religious affiliations, whereas 32:00it seems to me, Mizrahi is predominantly made up of women from the orthodox congregations. Mizrahi is just much more orthodox. Hadassah is, in a sense, secular.

M.B.:

But still very involved completely with Israel, and-

A.G.:

Yeah. But a lot of it has to do with maintaining Hadassah Hospital, in Israel.

M.B.:

This is a very large institution.

A.G.:

Yes. And also, what's called Youth Aliyah, which is rescuing children, providing homes for children. Especially during the Hitler period. Children were rescued from Nazi Germany, and taken to Israel. They were separated from their families and they were brought up in camps, in Youth Aliyah camps, and Hadassah here in America, and I guess in some other ... I don't know. Hadassah is only in 33:00America. I'm not really sure. I think it is. Supporting these.

M.B.:

Have you been able to go to Israel?

A.G.:

Four times.

M.B.:

Could you tell me something about your trips? Your impressions of those?

A.G.:

Well, don't you want to know about my children?

M.B.:

Oh, I'm getting to your children.

A.G.:

Oh, you're going to get to the children. Well, that ties in. In '67 was our first trip to Israel, and it was six weeks before the war, the June war, in '67. I was affiliated with a medical group, of Jewish doctors. Most of my things, you know, a lot of my life has been with other Jews, my social life. Even that trip was Jewish doctors. And then, I've been three times since, because my daughter married an Israeli.

M.B.:

Is she presently in Israel?

A.G.:

No, she and her husband are right now living in Louisville. They have a son who was born in Israel and is a citizen of Israel and of the United States.

M.B.:

Well, this would be a good place for you to go into your family, and tell me about your own immediate children.

A.G.:

Okay. I have a daughter, who is 27, a son who's 24, my daughter is married and living in Louisville, and is working, and she has a two and a half year old son. My son in law is Israeli and was born on a kibbutz there. My son is in his third year of medical school, at the University of Kentucky.

M.B.:

Are you seeing now, changes at all, in this third generation, if you look from your mother to your children, and they're starting families, as to well, different ... say, the wife working, and all this type of thing? Did your mother ever work outside the home?

A.G.:

No. But I have.

M.B.:

But you have.

A.G.:

For a long time, now.

M.B.:

Do you see this, much of this pattern in your age group, throughout the community?

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Women my age are either going back to school, I did that maybe 15 years ago, they are working, yeah.

M.B.:

Has this in any way appeared to make any difference in the closeness of the Jewish family? You've always been told that there was a special bond, and better discipline, and ...

A.G.:

Well, I don't know, because my children are grown. I'm working with children out of the house. I don't know what's happening in families where mothers are working and the children are still small. I mean, I'm at a different stage, so I can't really answer that.

M.B.:

Well, let's move on then, to your present job, and I would like for you to tell me about the overall organization that you work for, and then your specific job, if you would?

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). [crosstalk 00:36:01]. Well, first of all, I've been 36:00working since the end of January, at the Jewish Family and Vocational Service. The Jewish Family and Vocational Service is only one year old. Formerly, it was the Jewish Social Service Agency, and the Jewish Vocational Service, and these two agencies have come together to form the Jewish Family and Vocational Service.

A.G.:

I came to work as an assistant, in the Russian resettlement program. The program has gotten huge, and the woman who was working in the program needed someone to help her in it. Louisville has committed itself this year to resettling 140 Russians. Now, I don't have the statistics in front of me, and I can't remember, but this is a tremendous increase over what happened last year. This is a 37:00program that's been going on for five years, and in the first year, three families were resettled. Three families, so what would that be? About nine people, or ten people, something like that. Last year, 23 families were resettled.

A.G.:

In May, we resettled 18 families in one month. So, in the meantime, in March, the woman that I was supposed to assist had to leave, so I am in charge of the whole resettlement program, and that's one program in the agency. There's another program where the older people in the community are served, and helped. It's a program for the elderly.

M.B.:

Okay, now this is aside from the Jewish Community Center Activity?

A.G.:

Oh, yeah. [crosstalk 00:37:51]. This is the Jewish Family and Vocational Service, which is an entirely separate agency, funded partially by the Jewish community, the funds are raised through the UJA campaign that's organized by the 38:00Jewish Federation, funded partially by United Way, funded to some extent with federal funds and state funds, and some county assistance. Now, I'm talking about the resettlement program. In terms of the overall agency funding, I think it would be Federation and United Way. It's really a United Way agency, overall. Then there's the vocational service that's given, with vocational counseling and job placement and testing, we have a psychologist who's part of the vocational service.

M.B.:

And this is not just open to refugees coming in, this would be any Jewish person-

A.G.:

This is open to anybody. It's non-sectarian. And then there is family counseling and individual counseling, other than vocational. Soon, there's going to be 39:00another type of thing that's called, it has to do ... it's sort of a preventive type of thing, and I forget what they're called. I can't remember. We've hired a new person, and it's family ... I just can't remember-

M.B.:

Crisis intervention? [crosstalk 00:39:22].

A.G.:

It's not. No, it's before crisis. It's something that, we have groups to teach people how to be good parents, and that type of thing. It's more of a ... I can't remember the name of the service.

M.B.:

About how many people are involved in work then, where you are? Just the staff, itself?

A.G.:

Just a minute. I'm talking about ... not the secretarial staff? About three office people, and about three ... three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, about ten. Ten people. Family Life Education is that other, I had forgotten. But 40:00somebody's coming in to work in that. So that'll be about 11, staff people.

M.B.:

Tell me a little bit more about how the Russian settlement is coming along. We have one of the young women working in our class right now, so I assume someone-

A.G.:

Yeah, that's right. [crosstalk 00:40:26]. I remember now. I know who that is, yeah. I haven't met her, but I know. They're moving that family.

M.B.:

How do you think that, to come into an entirely different language, even though many Russians, I'm sure, can talk English.

A.G.:

Oh no. Oh, no. They come to Louisville not knowing much English. We have an interpreter, and the interpreter came to work after I came, because I had to have an interpreter. I don't speak Russian, and I don't speak Yiddish. Some of the older Russians come speaking Yiddish, but the younger ones don't. And you asked me, how it is ...

M.B.:

Just-

A.G.:

It's very interesting, but it's extremely difficult, because of the language barrier.

M.B.:

Could you just pick out one family, that you've worked with and give me sort of a blow by blow account of how you would settle this family successfully. What would be the first thing you would do?

A.G.:

Well, the first thing ... you really want to know, step by step what we do? We go to the airport, and we meet them, and then we take them to their apartment and we have a nice lunch there for them. Oh, before they come, I forgot that whole part. We have to rent an apartment. With the aid of volunteers in the community, we get the apartment furnished with their basic furniture, and their small household items, and about a week's supply of food. Now, the furniture comes mostly from donations, from the Jewish community. And then, there is some money spent on some items that we put in, we have to buy them. So, the apartment 42:00is readied. That's a whole big deal.

A.G.:

Then, they come, we take them to their apartment, and then shortly after they're settled and rested, we bring them into the office, and we tell them what we will do for them, and give them an idea about our policy, and what to expect, and we also get the vocational and educational history, so we'll know what kind of jobs they could possibly enter. We send them to school for eight weeks, this is a new policy, to have them go to school for eight weeks. Five days a week, four hours a day. We have a school at Keneseth Israel Synagogue. We have to arrange the transportation, we use TARC.

A.G.:

So, a family would come to the office, and then start school, and then we also have to help them, they come with terrible dental problems, they come with health problems, and we have to arrange to send them to doctors and dentists. So, that's all part of the initial process. We enroll the children in school, right now we're very busy getting children ready for camp. Some mothers say, "I've got to get my child ready for camp." I have about 40 children I'm getting ready for camp, and these children, a lot of them don't speak English. When I say I, I mean I and the three other people that help me with this. We work day and night.

M.B.:

Okay, let's just take the children, for a minute. Now, would you automatically enroll them in Jewish Day School, or do you enroll them in a private school that's close to the apartments that you have?

A.G.:

Well, private schools close to the apartments, there's no money for private-

M.B.:

Now, I said private, but I meant public.

A.G.:

Oh, oh yeah. Public schools, but they have to go to special school for a while, when they come. You know, because of the English problem. They're always at special school for foreign children.

M.B.:

Oh, and the Board of Education-

A.G.:

Yes. Oh, yeah. The Board of Education helps. Now, I have not enrolled anybody in school, yet. I have not had that experience, but I will. In September, I'm going to have about 30 or 40 kids I'm going to have to enroll. We ask the parents what they want to do. If some parents say yes, if the child is young enough, the child can start at the Jewish Day School, if the parents want the child to. Like, a first or second grader could. But if they're a little older, they can't start in the Day School, because that's too hard. That means learning Hebrew and the child's trying to learn English, and it's just too hard for the child.

A.G.:

So, that's school, and then the camp. The children get their camp free. This is with Fresh Air Fund money, and this quite a nice thing for the children. Four 45:00children are being sent to an overnight, two week camp in Ohio. We have picked four children we think would heavily benefit from that experience. That also is free for the children. Jewish Hospital provides free care for our people, and Jewish doctors and dentists, and some non-Jewish doctors and maybe dentists, I'm not sure about that, are helping the people with their medical problems and dental problems, initially.

M.B.:

How do the people react when they first see this, when they walk into this furnished apartment?

A.G.:

Oh. That is the most dramatic experience. I mean, they come off the plane in a little bit in a daze, of course, not knowing what to expect, and quite tired, because they've been whisked from Rome, where they've been two or three months waiting to enter. Overnight in New York and come through. They get to their 46:00apartment, almost without exception, they are overwhelmed and I'll tell you something, there was one elderly woman who said when she saw her kitchen, she said, "How many families use this kitchen?" And I don't think I'll ever forget that. That same woman said, "Is there enough bread, here?" In Louisville. They were very poor people, this particular woman, was very poor.

A.G.:

Just last week, a young couple came and we took them to their apartment, and they said, "This is just like heaven." Because the apartment we took them to was really, very, very nice. The owner had just fixed it up, and it really was nice. Anyone would have been thrilled, even an American. But they're overwhelmed, because one thing about, in Russia, they have to live in very small quarters. Many people in very small area, and they really here, apartments, compared to 47:00what they have had, is really very luxurious, and they like all of our modern equipment. They don't know how to use it.

A.G.:

We sent an air conditioner, a window unit to some people that needed it very badly, and this was a few weeks ago, when we had a very hot spell in Louisville. And just a few days ago, one of the staff people told me he went over to their apartment and they didn't know how to work it. They had just had air blowing in, they didn't know how to turn on the cooling system, so he showed them. But see, they don't know how to use the equipment. We try to teach them, of course.

M.B.:

It's probably almost like going in cultural shock.

A.G.:

It is a cultural shock.

M.B.:

Do you find that, I know in talking with people much older than you, and looking back on the Jews that came in from Germany, that some just seemed to hop right in and learn the language, [crosstalk 00:47:57] but for others, it was just almost too much of a step, was just learning the language, particularly the 48:00older people.

A.G.:

Yeah. It's the older people. We decided that there's a relationship, and it's so obvious, anyway, between going to work and learning the language. In other words, people learn the language better when they have a goal of using it in a work situation. The older people are not going to be going to work. Most of them, either they're going on some kind of assistance, after 65, or they're in a certain age group where they really ...

M.B.:

Well, will there be enough of them that they would maybe, this might sound strange, but like, have a Russian sect within the, say in the Jewish Community Center. [crosstalk 00:48:46].

A.G.:

There already is. We have almost 300 people here, now.

M.B.:

So, they wouldn't necessarily have to go through all the trauma of learning English to [crosstalk 00:48:55]-

A.G.:

To socialize? No. As a matter of fact, we have real communities now, because 49:00we're finding apartments, they're all together in different areas, they're very much together.

M.B.:

Where are some of the areas that you're finding?

A.G.:

Well, I mean, especially in the Heights. Point Heights Lane, all the way from Taylorsville Road to Barstown Road, we have different apartment areas, where we're putting people. Some of these apartment complexes are going to be completely Russian, pretty soon. Because I rent every apartment that comes available. I rent them two and three months ahead of time. Have to do that. Have to have the apartment rented, so that when we hear a family is coming, I have an apartment for the family.

M.B.:

I hate to even ask this question, but-

A.G.:

That's all right.

M.B.:

... I mean, do you find any resistance on the part of landlords, to renting the apartment to them?

A.G.:

Well, I guess I'm not acquainted with the landlords who don't rent to the Russians, at this point, I'm only acquainted with the landlords who had been 50:00renting, and when they have a vacancy, they call me. I mean, that's the way it works now. I really don't have to seek out apartments anymore. So, those that don't want the Russians, there's no contact with.

M.B.:

There's plenty, in other words, as you said. This is no problem.

A.G.:

Well, it was a problem last summer, and that's why we're renting apartments two and three months ahead of time. We are always afraid it's going to be a problem. Now, it will become a problem, because I am filling complexes with Russians, right now, and we're going to run out of apartments in that area. See, we need to put them all together, for many reasons. First of all, in order to, when we have to pick them up for anything, we pick up for school, for example. It's so much more convenient to have them all together.

A.G.:

The second thing is, it's very good because they can help each other and they don't need us every minute to assist them. Because the ones who have come earlier can help the ones that have just arrived, and that's essential now, with 51:00the large numbers that we have to take care of. We need the assistance of the Russians who have been here.

M.B.:

Do you have any tie-in at all, to know that say, large percentage of these people had relatives in Louisville to begin with, or are they basically people that just chose Louisville of three or four spots that they could have gone to?

A.G.:

Only one family, no, two families have Louisville relatives. Two. The rest have come here because we were asked to accept them. It seemed like our community would be a good community for jobs. I didn't mention that one part of that whole process, in the end, in the ultimate part of the process is to find jobs for the people. Because once people have jobs, they become fairly self sufficient.

M.B.:

Well, when the Russian families arrive in Rome, and you said, then they stay 52:00there for several months, are there like, 12 target cities in the United States? How do they go about deciding which cities will be receiving them? Has the Federation sent word-

A.G.:

Oh, no.

M.B.:

... from someone, "We will take so many-"

A.G.:

Yes, yes. We have assumed the responsibility of resettling 140 people, this year. There has been an agreement, which was a Federation decision, the board of the Federation made this decision, and an organization called HIAS, Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, which is very old, and dates back to the late 1880s, when the last wave of Russian immigrants came to the United States. They are told that Louisville will accept this number.

A.G.:

Now, when the people leave Russia, they go to Vienna, some go to Israel, some go to Rome. HIAS takes care of the people in Rome and brings them to Louisville. We are constantly in touch. I'm in touch with a couple people in New York, that's 53:00where the HIAS office is. And we will get a call, or we'll get some kind of material, describing the particular family, the composition, the age, the vocational background, work history, and medical record. We are asked, "Will you accept this family? We think they would fit into your community, what do you think?" And we talk about it, and then we say yes or no. We call them and tell them.

M.B.:

Could you name, say, three other communities that you know are receiving large numbers?

A.G.:

Large numbers? Cincinnati probably, I don't know how large. Indianapolis takes some. Of course, Chicago takes large numbers. Cleveland takes probably tremendous numbers.

M.B.:

Really?

A.G.:

Oh yeah. There are 70 to 90 cities in the United States that are participating, and I just got some information about somebody in Henderson, Kentucky or the 54:00Jews of Henderson, Kentucky are interested in helping to resettle a Russian family, in Henderson, Kentucky. So that might open up some other communities in Kentucky.

M.B.:

And some of these people may be more at ease in small communities.

A.G.:

Oh, no. These are big city people. All these people are coming from large cities.

M.B.:

Leningrad, and places like-

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Odessa, Kiev. And we've only got one or two people from Moscow. We don't take professional people, like doctors and dentists here, anymore. We did originally, but we don't. We can't retrain them, we don't have the set up here. We can't give them the technical education they need, to meet our American standards of practice.

M.B.:

So, really, if you had to have an ideal background, would it be just in something more general like business, or-

A.G.:

You mean the person-

M.B.:

The person that's coming.

A.G.:

Definitely not. Not business. The ideal is an auto mechanic, that's one of the ideal vocational skills. I mean, we see an auto mechanic, we know we can-

M.B.:

Raise them right up.

A.G.:

We've had like, electricians. Yeah. Welders, we've recently accepted some welders. Now, whether we'll be able to place them or not, see, we've got to wait eight weeks, they need to learn English.

M.B.:

Even going further back, and maybe this isn't an area which you've really even had time to deal with, but how are these people, meaning the ones that are pushed to the forefront, getting out, I mean, have they like, been on a waiting list for quite some long time? Or does it take strings on their part to get out? Or ...

A.G.:

It doesn't take strings. They apply for an exit visa. How they are selected or rejected, we don't know on what basis the government decides who is going to 56:00leave and who's going to have to stay. We rather suspect they are keeping the people that are most vital to their own economy.

M.B.:

They possibly are keeping the professionals that you're saying would be so-

A.G.:

Well, or some other highly skilled or highly educated person. You understand, a lot of the professionals, I mean, they probably are getting out, but they don't come here, they go to New York or someplace where they can get the kind of retraining they need. I mean, the Russians are not going to let out some people that they want to keep, and they're giving us ... their old, I'm sure they're not reluctant to give us their old people. We're getting a lot of old people. We just got a 90 year old man, the same day we got a two year old child, in that same group that came.

A.G.:

I mean, they weren't related, but we got a lot of people. We're getting a lot of old people, and sick. We're also getting young people, but after they apply for 57:00their exit visa, and they get their visa, when they get it, they have to sometimes wait a whole year, and they can't keep their jobs after they apply for an exit visa, and they don't get any services, any health services. So they can be in Russia for a year, as long as a year, without any means of support.

A.G.:

So what they do, is they start selling off their furniture, and they borrow from people. That's why they come with such hideous health condition. They haven't seen a doctor for a year, they haven't seen a dentist. In Rome they have some kind of a superficial examination, just to tide them over. But they come, some of the kids have really terrible teeth, it's very upsetting.

M.B.:

Well, the people that have the nerve to go through all this, and go through the hardship, are they people who have possibly already been mistreated?

A.G.:

Not necessarily. They're not mistreated, exactly. If I understand it, there is very obvious antisemitism in Russia, and in terms of higher education, I think they're excluded at the Universities. They feel, the people that come here feel that they have left a situation that was very potentially threatening to them, life threatening. They were scared, as Jews. [crosstalk 00:58:31]. And there is antisemitism in Russia. There always has been, and in some cases, in the newspapers, it's rather blatant, in some of the publications.

M.B.:

Well, I would think, of all the things that are going on here in Louisville, this must be definitely one of the most important human services, possibly going on.

A.G.:

I mean, those of us, the four of us, there are three other people and myself that are involved most closely with this. I know at least two of the other people, and myself, we work day and night. I have a dining room table that's 59:00full of-

M.B.:

As you were saying, your dining room table is full.

A.G.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). And-

A.G.:

(silence)