Interview with T. William Samuels Sr., May 15, 1985

Partial Transcript: Today is May the 15th, 1985.

Segment Synopsis: This segment includes an introduction of the interviewer, the project, and Mr. Samuels.

Partial Transcript: You came from a long line of distillers, and while I don't need to know exact details, what are your memories of your father, or if you remember your grandfather, in their business relations.

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels recalls visiting his father's distillery as a kid and after prohibition, when his father was selling finished liquor to the pharmaceutical trade. His dad, Leslie B. Samuels, took the distillery over from his father around 1900, reactivated the distillery after prohibition in 1934, and died in 1936.

Partial Transcript: What did it mean for your career choices when you were...

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels discusses graduating from the University of Louisville Speed School in 1932. He talks about the different small jobs he had until he and his dad reopened the distillery, naming it T. W. Samuels Distillery. He lists some of the financiers and backers, such as Max Hirsch and Robert L. Block.

Partial Transcript: And he was also married to Margarite Bernheim, who was a daughter of I. W. Bernheim of the Bernheim distillery and also Bernheim Forest.

Segment Synopsis: This segment is about how Mr. Samuels knew Mr. Bernheim and about Mr. Bernheim's personality, children, and reason for building the forest.

Partial Transcript: So I guess when we left off in the chronology, we were in the mid-thirties...

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels discusses some of the work he did at the distillery, which was primarily planning, designing, and drawing the new plant.

Partial Transcript: He always had projects going outside of his own business...

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels discusses his father's life outside of the distillery - he was a very active community member. He also talks about his father's personality, education, and religion. He relates the story of how his dad met his mother, Mary Louise Carol, while working in Salt Lake City at the Nelson County Record newspaper.

Partial Transcript: Was it a blow to him?

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels recalls his father and Jim Beam - who were neighbors, friends, and competitors - meeting and discussing prohibition, though neither were active with trying to reverse it.They discuss the Jim Beam family, the economical impact of prohibition in that area, and how his father was able to make a living after prohibition.

Partial Transcript: That's one of the reasons, when we wanted to started up again in 1933 or '34...

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels recalls the reason his father needed investors and how active some of the investors were in the distillery. He also discusses the positions he held at the distillery, and why they sold the distillery, and how the sell impacted him.

Partial Transcript: Well, what did you do during the war?

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels talked about joining the Navy after selling the distillery in 1943, retiring for a few years after leaving the Navy in 1946, and some of the jobs he had after leaving retirement around 1949.

Partial Transcript: Well, okay, now we've really come to the part where we start talking more about Maker's Mark.

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels says the decision to make his own brand happened over time. He talks about the four elements he wanted to have in his bourbon and how he decided to focus on these four elements.

Partial Transcript: So you knew what you wanted to produce, where did you start?

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels recalls choosing a plant for his distillery, some of the important people who helped him get started, such as Sam Cecil and Elmo Beam, assembling a staff, and working on a recipe for Maker's Mark.

Partial Transcript: Then the next job was getting a name for the brand.

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels recalls trying to decide on a name, before allowing an advertisement agency to do so; packaging the brand with advice from Hap Motlow Jack Daniel's to work with George Shields' company; and beginning to sell Maker's Mark in 1958, at first in California, then more locally.

Partial Transcript: Well, can you just give me some ideas of, maybe, milestones or kind of watershed events...

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels' recalls the regions in which Maker's Mark did well and how he was able to get Maker's Mark onto airlines.

Partial Transcript: Let's go back to even the earlier days of production...

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels talks about the type of production workers he employees. He also recalls the changes from the 1960s to the 1980s, when the sale was greater than the production at one time, and how he needed to cut back on some fringe markets.

Partial Transcript: At that point, had your son come into the business?

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels says his son came into the business around 1967 after graduating from law school. He talks about his own feelings on that and the roles his son had at Maker's Mark.

Partial Transcript: I guess we ought to talk about the decision to sell.

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Samuels said he decided to sell because bourbon sales were declining. He talks about why he decided to sell to Walker, instead of some of the other interested buyers.