Interview with Morris Kling, June 27, 1970

Nancy Marks:

...and I am Nancy Marks and I'm interviewing Morris Kling. Today is June 27, and Mr. Kling, I would like to know when you where born and where you were born, and a little bit about your early childhood and your family, where you lived.

Morris Kling:

I was born March the 30th, 1904 at Preston and Madison Street, which was really the heart of where the Jewish people lived. Most of them, of course, were immigrants, and I happen to be on my father's side, I'm a second generation Jew, and on my mother's side, I'm a third generation Jew. We lived at that address 1:00until I was six years old, and we moved out on South 2nd Street. Though we weren't affluent by any means, Jewish people who could afford to move away from Madison Street, did move out south, in the area of 1st Street and 2nd Street from, oh, maybe Magnolia Street on as far out as Brandeis.

M.K.:

I went to Cochran School, which was at 2nd and Hill, and it was called a Silk Stocking School, because the aristocracy of Louisville lived on South 3rd Street, and this was a real, real affluent bunch of people. The Jewish 2:00enrollment at Cochran School was pretty large, because as the years went on, more and more Jewish people moved to that neighborhood. And as far as I can remember, there was no separation of Jewish and Gentile children. They played together and, of course, went to school together, etc., etc.

N.M.:

Did you have any formal Hebrew education?

M.K.:

I went to Brith Sholom Sunday school on Sunday, which we took regular, traditional Sunday school lessons, studied the history of the Jews and so forth. We had a custom at Brith Sholom in those days of the children being required to 3:00go to Saturday morning services, and most of the children who went Saturday, at least among the male children, studied Hebrew Saturday morning. It wasn't a very comprehensive education in Hebrew, but we learned how to read it, and we recognized it, etc., etc.

N.M.:

Were the services mainly in English?M.K.:

The services when I was real, real young up until the time, I would say, when I was 8 or 9 or 10 years old, Brith Sholom, which is ... They were a reform temple, similar to Adath Israel, but was a lot more less reformed than Adath 4:00Israel, and we stuck to many of the conservative methods of doing things. The services were in part English and part Hebrew. In fact, at some of the, when I was real young, and I don't remember this, but I remember having been told about it, some of the sermons were given in German. Brith Sholom, of course, was about 99% German origin, and we did learn just a little Hebrew on Saturday morning.

N.M.:

Okay. That's interesting, that German sermon.

M.K.:

Yeah.

N.M.:

What did your parents do when ... Can you tell us something about your parents, 5:00your family?

M.K.:

For sure, yeah. I had two sisters, and I had three brothers. My two younger brothers and I died when they were quite young from pneumonia. My father was, he was in the wholesale general merchandise business. And my mother, who was born in Aurora, Indiana, which is about 30 miles West of Cincinnati, and her family ran what we called a general store in those days in Aurora. And as a child, I 6:00liked to visit up there. There was two Jewish families in Aurora, my mother's and another one.

M.K.:

My dad was a fairly observant Jew. He wasn't strict. In those days, some of the old kosher laws still stuck to the conservative type of Reform Judaism, for lack of any other description, we had to call it that. We didn't keep, we didn't observe the dietary laws. We were kept out of school on the Jewish holidays. My sisters were confirmed, my brother Arthur was confirmed in bar mitzvah, and I 7:00was bar mitzvah'ed.

M.K.:

As a child, I probably lacked some contact with Jewish children, because my father, who belonged to the Louisville Turners, which is a German organization, saw to it that I took my gymnastic trainings at Louisville Turners, because they were a little, probably on a higher level than what they had at the old YMHA. And in that way, I didn't have as close a Jewish contact as a child as some other people. As I remember, there was only two other Jewish families that belonged to the Turners at that time. It was the Fleishakers and the [Artners 8:0000:07:59], and that kind of isolated me. Later on as I got a little older, I did start going to the YMHA, joined a Jewish club there, the [Hertzo 00:08:19] Club, which was really supposedly an educational club but was a social club.

M.K.:

And at the Brith Sholom, there was a young people's organization forum, which was called the Brith Sholom Youth Guild. I don't where in the hell they got that name. And that attracted, this was when we were getting to be teenagers, and that attracted teenaged children, not only from Brith Sholom but from other 9:00congregations, because there wasn't too many programs of that nature among the other synagogues. And we gave dances. One of our goals and objectives was to get enough money to buy a jukebox, which we finally accomplished and so forth. So my Jewish association came more so when I became a teenager and so forth. The old YMHA was the original Jewish Community Center.

N.M.:

Did you go to Male High School here?

M.K.:

I went to Male High School. I went to law school, the Jefferson School of Law, 10:00when I graduated from Male High. Jefferson School of Law was a night school. When I graduated from high school, I started working. I worked for my father, and that was my spending money, and I didn't want to give that up, so I took law at a very, very fine law school. Jefferson School of Law was a very fine school. We used all the best judges in Louisville as a teaching staff, and eventually it was combined with the University of Louisville Law School, and regardless of when you graduated from Jefferson School of Law, you were given a diploma from University Law School. I didn't practice the law but a very short time, because 11:00I was very anxious to have a steady income rather than to wait until I could build up a law practice, and I took a job that my father offered me. And I've been in that business ever since.

N.M.:

All right. When you finished law school and you went into business with your dad, did you continue to live at home or ...?`

M.K.:

I lived at home until I got married. I was married in 1929, and I was the youngest child and the last to get married. My mother had passed away in 1920. That's when I was 16 years old, and my father remarried a woman who worked for him at his wholesale business after I got married. And we had real good 12:00relationships with her after she married my father.

N.M.:

Did you all continue to live downtown?

M.K.:

No, we ... As I say when I was a child, I was born on Madison Street. We moved out South, whereas the Jewish population moved out South on 1st Street and 2nd Street, and until my mother died, we lived that way there, my sister kept house after my mother died, but we lived out in the South End until we broke up the home when I got married in 1929. Then Betty and I lived in Maplewood Place. 13:00That's near Bonnycastle. That's where my brother, and my brother still lives there. We lived there until our family got too big, and we got three children. We had Suzy first, and then when two of them came at one time, all of a sudden the house got too small, and we got out, and we got out and we moved on Byron Avenue in Strathmoor.

M.K.:

I became active in some community affairs through the Jewish Community Center. I became interested, and as I grew older, I became involved in, put on the Brith 14:00Sholom Temple board when I was quite young. I became active at the Jewish Community Center, put on that board. Eventually became president at the Brith Sholom Temple and became president of the Jewish Community Center, and of course, like anybody else, if you go to enough meetings, you'd be put on boards. I've been on various boards. I was General Chairman of the United Jewish Appeal. It's been some years ago already, and I was chairman of the Bonds for Israel Drive for a couple of years.

M.K.:

I had non-sectarian interests. I've been with the Boy Scouts. I became highly 15:00interested in the Fair Share Plan for the Boy Scouts in the West End. That's where the Boy Scouts were neglected down there, because as the whites moved away, nobody really did anything for the black kids, and there we had a lack of troops. And we finally got them stirred up to get some churches open to organize some Boy Scouts troops down there. I've been active in the United Way for a good number of years. Of course, now I'm, we don't live here all the time. We're down in Florida half the time. I've been Chairman of the United Jewish Appeal Drive.

M.K.:

In our condominium, we got about 1,000 units in our two buildings where we live, 16:00and I've been Chairman for the last three years, which is a quite a task, because ... You can cut this part out of the tape if you want to. 90% of the people who live in our two buildings are New Yorkers, and they're the toughest monsters to get along with than anybody ever. You're not from New York. You're from Lexington.

N.M.:

Right.

M.K.:

I'm really more interested in living in Louisville as great a part of the year as I can, because I've got more interests up here. We've got 11 grandchildren, and they all live in Louisville, and believe me, when you've got that many, most people got them scattered all over the country. I'm still active in some community affairs, and I still go down to the office for a few hours a day. It's 17:00hard to kill time down in Florida, especially when I'm a little handicapped getting around. So you want to know some people?

N.M.:

Well, I was wondering if when you were president of Brith Sholom and the Jewish Community Center, were there any changes that were going on in the community at that time?

M.K.:

Well, now, let's see. What changes did we make at Brith Sholom Temple. Off the record, we gave the rabbi a raise every year. That's not a change. Shortly after I became president, didn't happen when I was president, Brith Sholom moved from 2nd and College up to its present location at [Speed 00:18:04] and [Cowling 18:0000:18:04] you know it was...Brith Sholom was on the downgrade, because the Jewish population was moving into the Highlands, and we were losing membership. Adath Israel wasn't losing so many, because they had probably, maybe the better organization. I don't know.

M.K.:

So when we finally moved to the Highlands, Brith Sholom turned around, and the membership started to go up by leaps and bounds. The Sunday School went from a small number of 40 or 45 when were down at 2nd Street, and it went up to almost 250 when we, three or four years after we were up here.

N.M.:

So there was really a lot to be done in organizing.

M.K.:

Well, I say that move was made before I became president. That was made about 4 or 5 years before I became president. We had as our rabbi, during World War II, Solomon Bazell, who was a very outspoken man. He was one of the few Jewish leaders in their rabbinate, who warned the people about Hitler and continually talked in the pulpit about what was going to happen. And he, during World War II, he went into the service as a chaplain. When he got out of the service, he gave up the rabbinate.

M.K.:

Another rabbi, who probably became involved because of what was happening, was Martin Perley, who was our rabbi during the Vietnam War, and he got in the bad 20:00graces of our congregation and bad graces, I guess, of the Jewish population as a whole at that time, because he was strongly against the Vietnam War, and he spoke up, which is something most rabbis won't do. That's when he gave up the rabbinate, took the human relations job. My brother, Arthur, that's the guy you ought to interview. Somebody ought to interview him.

N.M.:

He's being interviewed.

M.K.:

My brother Arthur has made a tremendous contribution to the community as a whole 21:00compared to what myself has done. It's work for the elderly, senior citizens. Arthur had studied to be a rabbi at Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. In those days, of course, was nine years, and a tremendous lot of rabbinical students dropped out of school in their 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th year because it was so long that they got, maybe not bored, they got cynical about hearing the same thing over again. And they got out because they couldn't see their way clear to be sincere in the word. That's what happened to him.

N.M.:

What about when you were president of the Jewish Community Center? When you were 22:00president of the Temple, you must've really had a lot of work to do in those years before you were president, president.

M.K.:

Well, I was on the Temple board, oh, probably from 1930, and I became president something like 1955 or thereabouts, and it wasn't any trick to be on the Temple board. We did, judging by what gauges you want to judge a temple, the Temple did become prosperous number-wise and from a budgetary standpoint. Whether we turned 23:00out any better Jews or not, I don't know. The Jewish Community Center is a lot bigger challenge than the president of a shul, because you're dealing with tremendously a lot more people. You're dealing with Jews of all three ideologies. You're dealing with a lot of non-Jewish people. Jewish Community Center today has got maybe 30%, 35% non-Jewish members, which from a financial standpoint they need.

M.K.:

They join the Center, as you know, because the outdoor facilities is convenient for them. The Center at one time was cheaper than any swim club, Lakeside or 24:00anybody else. But that was a bigger challenge than being a president of a synagogue. The club program at the Jewish Community Center in Louisville and every place else has always been a problem with what kind of a program do you want. You know, most of the clubs out at the Center are BBYO clubs.

N.M.:

These are for the high school youngsters.

M.K.:

Yeah, yeah. It's a problem to get the children to be democratic, so they don't join the club, but their mother belonged to it, their father belonged to it, become snobs. They were a prestige club. It's always been what the problem of the Jewish Community Center to have a program to involve people instead of 25:00seeing how excellent a program can be. At one time, the old YMHA, which was the predecessor of the Jewish Community Center, in an effort to have a good varsity basketball team, they got basketball players. It didn't make any difference whether they were Jewish or non-Jewish or whether they were active in the Jewish Community Center, of the YMHA or not, they had to have a good basketball team.

M.K.:

The dramatic group got that way at one time. I think it still is, but it was so that they were looking for perfection, and they went out and got real good talent, had good productions, but that isn't the purpose of the Jewish Community Center. It's to give a program to involve people who belong in it. The 26:00orchestra, they had an orchestra out there that became so non-affiliated with the Center, because here again, they wanted to go out and get the best first violinist and the best drummer and so forth. They had one hell of a good orchestra, but it wasn't what the purpose of the Center was to have the members participate. So that had to be de-emphasized.

N.M.:

That was one of the things you de-emphasized during your years?

M.K.:

Well, I'll say it's an ongoing ... With my motivation, it was an ongoing thing, because it always continually crept up. If you left it alone, you would have a dramatic group that was interested in perfection, you'd have an orchestra that 27:00played beautiful music, and you'd have a basketball team that was tops, but it didn't involve the membership, and that's what the purpose of a Jewish Community Center is. The Jewish Community Center, incidentally, has been one of the best things that can happen to Judaism insofar that it gets orthodox, conservative, and reform kids together, and they don't have that prejudice like they used to have against each other.

N.M.:

Did they used to really have that when you were growing up?

M.K.:

Oh, sure. I'm sure you've heard the words before. It's Polack and Kike and those 28:00kinds of words. Do you know, Nancy, at one time, and I'm going back maybe 60, 65 years ago, Eastern, Russian, and Polish Jews could not join the Standard Club, because if you weren't from Germany or Austria-Hungary, to hell with you. Of course, I say that's going back 50 or 60 years ago. There was a lot of prejudice among the different branches of Judaism.

N.M.:

That's really interesting. I think we'll rest for a minute.

M.K.:

Okay. If you want.

N.M.:

We're now going to talk about some other things that Mr. Kling's parents did when he was a youngster. Just what they, as the Roosevelts did, in the community. Okay?

M.K.:

My father was in law and politics, and he was interested in the Louisville Board of Education and ran for it for several times, several times, never got elected, but was an influence in some of the policies that they had. The reason he was interested in the Board of Education was because he in his business he sold a 30:00tremendous amount of school supplies, and he was interested in seeing that the quality of the education went along with the commercial part of it. He also was involved ... At one time, he was Chairman of the Democratic Campaign Committee in Louisville, and he didn't become involved in any religious things, you know, [inaudible 00:30:43]

N.M.:

What were some of the policies that the board adopted that, or they think adopted, that he [inaudible 00:30:55]

M.K.:

Well, he was interested in seeing that the sale of school supplies was kept out of the school system. Instead of being sold in the schools, were sold by 31:00merchants, because he thought that there was an area of graft with whoever administered the sale of school supplies in schools had sticky fingers on them. He was also interested in seeing that the children got the best values, that is the most number of sheets of paper and a tablet and filler paper, and he was instrumental in seeing that free books, he tried for many years to get free books in the local school. Of course, it eventually came but not in his time.

N.M.:

And that's why you've always been interested in Jewish education.

M.K.:

Yeah, right.

N.M.:

I don't have on tape what you did in Jewish education.

M.K.:

What I did in Jewish education? My participation in Jewish education was being a member of the Bureau of Jewish Education board and trying to upgrade the quality of Jewish education, both in the congregational schools and in the community schools. I was on the Hebrew School Board, the community Hebrew School Board, and it was my goal to help where I could, to see that the quality was upgraded, and I think I certainly gave it my full effort, but I think over a period of years, as I've told you before, I think the quality has been tremendously upgraded.

M.K.:

Will you excuse me a minute?

N.M.:

Sure.

M.K.:

[inaudible 00:33:06] In my memory, there are two Jewish men who made a big contribution to the community, and one of them is Charlie Morris, and the other is Louis Cole, Sr., that's the father of Louis Cole, Reverend. They were both instrumental in organizing Judaism, Jewish, organizing, well, it always was important. I think Charlie [Strough 00:33:41] needs mentioning for the work that he did in the New American in 1940 on. And [Saul McLean 00:34:05], both of them made a tremendous contribution in founding a [New Americans 00:34:05] in Louisville.

N.M.:

When was this?

M.K.:

That was from, I would say, 1940 to almost up to the present, 1970. There was a, as you know, a Jewish people from Jewish refugees from Europe had to have somebody make an affidavit out for them in this country that they wouldn't be drawing on the poverty [inaudible 00:34:45], and they may know the arrangements, and the arrangements to see that they were housed when they got here, properly fed. To those that they could, we got them jobs. We had quite a few German 35:00refugees that came to Louisville that went into the mercantile business. Max Oppenheimer, who had the only [inaudible 00:35:19], and Mark [Narno 00:35:20]. Joe [inaudible 00:35:26] and Fred Louis and Alfred [Behr 00:35:30], they were all helped while they were, well, with these Jews in Germany. At the time they got out of Germany, they didn't have much. They couldn't bring it with them. Eventually, they got reparations, but they were helped by the New American Committee.

N.M.:

And did most of the Jewish community do everything they could to help settle all 36:00these Jews?

M.K.:

The Jewish community was sympathetic to them. There was one ... You've got to understand the personality of the German people. My dad was a German, and we used to call him a hard-headed Dutchman, and the Germans that came to Louisville were also hard-headed. Some people called them arrogant, but they were [inaudible 00:36:38], and they were out for that reason. They'd naturally become assimilated, took on the ways of the American Jews.

N.M.:

Okay. About how many German Jews came over, do you know? Between 1940 and '50? You know, just mention a few names if you have to. [crosstalk 00:37:22]

M.K.:

There were a lot, I would say. Nancy, I wouldn't care to make a guess.

N.M.:

Oh, okay.

M.K.:

You could probably really, I think, in this if you wanted to find that both the Clarences would probably mention it.

N.M.:

Okay. That's good to know.

M.K.:

[inaudible 00:37:45] of the people that [inaudible 00:37:51] now Joe Kaplan. Phil [Evety 00:38:00] passed away, past president of the federation. I was the 38:00vice-president of the federation, then I was president because when I reached that coin, I was going down to Florida for six months a year. [inaudible 00:38:30], that's Ms. Friedman's husband, Robert. You probably heard about him, you know? Here's some of the original charter members of the original conference, which we now call a federation. That's the original people who 39:00formed it, you'll find. And there's many people who are [inaudible 00:39:12]

N.M.:

Now, is this the Morris man you ...?

M.K.:

Charlie Morris, yeah.

N.M.:

Okay. [inaudible 00:39:15]

M.K.:

Take that and run through it tonight.

N.M.:

When you were chairman of UJA in Louisville, when was that?

M.K.:

Give me the book, I'll tell you.

N.M.:

Okay.

M.K.:

1962. That year we raised all of $530,000. The year before we raised $467,000. 40:00The year after, we raised $510,000. The real big increase came in 1967, because of the [inaudible 00:40:28] War. 1967, raised $1,600,000.

N.M.:

UJA here, did they began with the creation of the State of Israel?

M.K.:

The original, I would say, approximately, or maybe a year or two before. Let's see what year they first gave a hand. 1939, they raised ...

N.M.:

I would like to know about any of the outstanding or great personalities that you've met, men that were nationally great or from Israel or something like that.

M.K.:

Well, I met [inaudible 00:41:45], and I met [Glengarrian 00:41:47], and I met practically everybody who was a named person with Israel. Not only here, but I met them in New York, because I attended the many national meetings in New York. And of course, in that time I've been to Israel. I couldn't catalog them all, 42:00but it was the system to have people meet those people, of course, and then work around at them and then get to about all of them. I didn't meet the president. What's his name? President, Premier, [Benine 00:42:32]?

N.M.:

Something like that.

M.K.:

I didn't meet him.

N.M.:

Now, how did ... Did you meet them at dinners? Did you meet them in small groups?

M.K.:

I met them at dinners, I met at the cocktail hour before dinners. The national, what they used to call a national kick-off dinner or meeting for the United Jewish Appeal used to be held in Miami, and they always brought name people in 43:00there. And I met them there, individually or met them by listening to them. They moved to New York. I attended many of those meetings in New York. Of course, everybody who was involved in the campaigns at any high level at all attended those kind of meetings to get the information, to get not indoctrinated, to get the food.

N.M.:

Are there any interesting anecdotes you have that you recall or that [inaudible 00:43:51]

M.K.:

Oh, I don't think the tape [inaudible 00:44:03] We've been to Israel several 44:00times. We met lots of people in Israel. Betty has some relatives over there that we got to know pretty well. Left Germany in 1939 and 1940 and got into Israel. I think the biggest friend we Jews had was Harry Truman, because he was the one that played an important part in getting Israel recognized at the United Nations. You know, Harry Truman was in a haberdashery business with a Jew. 45:00[Donald 00:45:05] Jacobson, who supposedly had some influence on Truman. Whether it's true or not, I don't know.

N.M.:

I know you've worked in the community and temple and given so much of your time in [inaudible 00:45:30] Would you like to say something about how you have worked to bring about a new reform congregation or why?

M.K.:

No, I don't want to say anything, because I'm just one of many who contributed to those things. I'll say this, that there are a lot of people who worked for the betterment of all kinds of things. They do it for the people they work for, 46:00but they do it also for their own satisfaction and involvement. When I'm down in Florida, as I say, I took that job with the [UJA 00:46:14] to get myself involved, because I like to do those things and it keeps you busy. I try to do volunteer work in Florida. You got that tape thing on?

N.M.:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

M.K.:

Turn it off. I'll tell you something about my volunteer work.