Interview with Hertzle Benovitz, January 31, 1979

Ken Chumley:

This is Ken Chumley, the University of Louisville Oral History Center. The date is January 31, 1979 and I'm interviewing today Mrs. Herschel Benovitz at her apartment at 5100 Brownsboro Road. This interview is part of our Jewish Oral History Project.

Ken Chumley:

To begin with, Mrs. Benovitz, tell me a little or tell me as much as you remember about your grandparents and then your parents, your grandparents.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well my grandfather came here in 1883.

Ken Chumley:

Came to Louisville?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Came to Louisville. It took him five years to save enough money to bring his family over in 1888. My father came here in 1883 also. Now he did not come from the same place that my grandfather came from.

Ken Chumley:

How's that?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well he came here to this country ... His father had died and he came here 1:00because his mother was going to move away from where they lived and he came to this country. He had relatives. When he came here, he was about 18 years old.

Ken Chumley:

What was your father's name?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Evans.

Ken Chumley:

Evans.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Ryan B. Evans.

Ken Chumley:

Did he change his name, or was that his-

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, the name was Evans and then in Russia you had to put a 'ski' unto your name, so it became Evanski, but then when he came to this country, he took the 'ski' off of it and remained Evans.

Ken Chumley:

Evans, it sounds like a Welsh name or something.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well they were Jewish.

Ken Chumley:

Is that right? And what part of ... He was from Russia?

Mrs. Benovitz:

He was from Kovno in Lithuania.

Ken Chumley:

And Lithuania, oh.

Mrs. Benovitz:

My mother's father was also from Lithuania, but they were from a small town in Lithuania.

Ken Chumley:

And he came here in 1883?

Mrs. Benovitz:

1883 too.

Ken Chumley:

And it took him five years before he could bring the other children.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Before he could have enough money. My grandmother remained there with six children. It took a while to-

Ken Chumley:

How did your ... What kind of business did your grandfather have?

Mrs. Benovitz:

When my grandfather came here and was first a peddler and he had quite a few relatives here and he provided well for his family. In fact, my grandmother lived until 1931 and she was never dependent on anyone. My grandfather died in 1900.

Ken Chumley:

What did he do in Russia, or in Lithuania rather?

Mrs. Benovitz:

That I do not know.

Ken Chumley:

Did he settle in Louisville?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah.

Ken Chumley:

And he became a peddler you say?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

Most people became peddlers.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

Or many became peddlers.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah.

Ken Chumley:

Do you recall his telling you any stories about Russia?

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, my grandfather died before I was born.

Ken Chumley:

I thought perhaps you had heard some stories by way of your mother.

Mrs. Benovitz:

And my grandmother, she was ... The main thing that her husband wanted her to do is not to let the children come over ignoramuses. He wanted them all to have some kind of education and my mother was the oldest daughter and they kept her and the oldest son in school all the five years that he was away to be sure that they came here without being a drag on the country.

Ken Chumley:

You said schools, were these Hebrew schools, or were these-

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, they were schools-

Ken Chumley:

Grammar schools.

Mrs. Benovitz:

My mother studied German and she studied French and she studied ... It wasn't 4:00just a Hebrew school. Now my uncle did too, the oldest son and the oldest daughter. The others all came over, they were younger. My mother was only about 15 years old when she came. One child ... One of the children was only five years old when they came.

Ken Chumley:

And they came with the grandfather in 1883.

Mrs. Benovitz:

With the grandmother.

Ken Chumley:

Oh, in 1888.

Mrs. Benovitz:

In 1888.

Ken Chumley:

I guess your grandfather worked those five years and saved and ...

Mrs. Benovitz:

And sent money to have the ... You know the children had to pay to go to school where they were and you know and he kept two of them in school because he believed in education.

Ken Chumley:

You remember your grandmother?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Oh, yeah, she died in 1931.

Ken Chumley:

'31 you said, yeah. Do you remember her telling you stories about Lithuania and 5:00about the way they lived?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well it didn't seem that they had suffered so much. I know her best friend over thee was a woman doctor who taught them some English so she came here with some English. She could read. Well I don't mean she could read, but could address her own letters and could read the circular or read the headline or something like that when she came to this country.

Ken Chumley:

And your maternal grandparents settled in Louisville then?

Mrs. Benovitz:

That was my maternal grandparents. My paternal grandfather from my father's side died very young. His mother went to Israel to live with her oldest daughter and 6:00married in Israel.

Ken Chumley:

Your mother's parents, though, they ... What part of Louisville did they settle in?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well they settled on Market Street then. I don't know exactly where on Market Street, but somewhere around ... Somewhere in the east end of Market Street.

Ken Chumley:

A Jewish neighborhood?

Mrs. Benovitz:

I'm sure it was because I know I imagine it must have not been far from Preston or somewhere in that neighborhood, exactly where, I don't know.

Ken Chumley:

And your mother, of course, was reared in that area.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

Do you recall her telling you anything about that area?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well she always told me about the first thing she did was go to school here. She went to school at Floyd and Chestnut

Ken Chumley:

That was the ... What was that school called? There was a public school there.

Mrs. Benovitz:

I forgot.

Ken Chumley:

Morris, something?

Mrs. Benovitz:

I think it was George Morris School.

Ken Chumley:

That's right. That's right.

Mrs. Benovitz:

My mother went to school there until she finished school.

Ken Chumley:

Finished the 8th grade?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah.

Ken Chumley:

Did she go onto high school or grad school?

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, then she got married. My father's settled in Salem, Indiana. When he came to this country, he came to St. Louis and his two brother-in-laws had stores in Salem, Indiana. One of them died. The other one asked him to come into business with him. The other one got sick and had to go to Texas for his health, so my father remained with the store in Salem, Indiana.

Ken Chumley:

What kind of store was it?

Mrs. Benovitz:

It was a dry goods store and my father and mother married and they lived in 8:00Salem, Indiana a couple of years after they were married.

Ken Chumley:

How did they meet?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well he used to come here to do buying for his store. At one time it was a pretty good home sell place for small merchants and many of them came to Louisville to do they're buying for their store and he did that and that's when he met my mother.

Ken Chumley:

He operated a successful store in Salem?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well, he made a living let's put it that way. How successful, I don't know and when they moved to Louisville, he had a grocery store, and he also was a resident buyer for merchants in the south for southern stores. He got sick one year and had to give up his business. That's how we moved to Mississippi.

Ken Chumley:

Where was his grocery store located?

Mrs. Benovitz:

It was on Market Street.

Ken Chumley:

On Market Street and you all lived on Market Street as well.

Mrs. Benovitz:

That's where we was from, where we was from.

Ken Chumley:

And the three years, did you leave Louisville?

Mrs. Benovitz:

The whole family moved to Mississippi.

Ken Chumley:

When you were three years old?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative). And in Mississippi we opened up a dry goods store, and my father had the store there for about 25 years.

Ken Chumley:

Why did your parents move to Mississippi?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Because my father got sick and he had to give up his business here and he had been dealing with merchants in Mississippi, so they said it was easier living 10:00down there while he was sick and he thought he would just go for a year or two, but he stayed 25 years.

Ken Chumley:

But he did have a store in Mississippi?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes. Oh yes.

Ken Chumley:

And where in Mississippi was this again?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Carrollton.

Ken Chumley:

Carrollton.

Mrs. Benovitz:

That's a very, very small town.

Ken Chumley:

Do you recall what the population is, or what it was then?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Oh, it was around five. I guess Carrollton and North Carrollton where divided up with about a thousand people, but it was a big farming area, and the towns themselves were small, but the farming area was big enough to make a very nice living there, comfortable.

Ken Chumley:

What part of Mississippi is Carrollton in?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Carrollton was one of the first towns east of the delta, the Mississippi Delta. 11:00It was ... Greenwood was the nearest town. It's about the central part of the state, but Greenwood was in the delta.

Ken Chumley:

What do you remember about ... Well you were very young, you don't remember anything probably about Carrollton?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Oh, yes, I went to school there, but I lived there for 20 years.

Ken Chumley:

Oh, wow.

Mrs. Benovitz:

That's where I got all my schooling in Carrollton and Carrollton was a very small town, but a very, very sociable town, very friendly. But there weren't any Jewish ... Oh a couple of years, one Jewish family lived there and a couple of 12:00years another, but you might say it was not a Jewish population. That's one of the reasons my parents want to move back to Louisville. Then my mother's people all lived here in Louisville. She had three sisters and a brother living here, and her mother was still living here, so they wanted to come back.

Ken Chumley:

Do you remember living in the deep south, do you remember any racial tension for instance or any of that?

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, I don't. I never did. I heard more about racial tension when I came back to Louisville. I never paid any attention. Of course, the colored people and the white people never went to school, but they didn't here either. But I never saw any scrimmages, never saw any trouble between colored and white.

Ken Chumley:

The people in Carrollton accepted you?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Very, very much. We were accepted in the finest and the best. The very top people. My father was on the board of all of them and he was a trustee at the school, he was on all consultations and conferences.

Ken Chumley:

After 25 years there, your parents moved to Louisville?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative). Well no, they moved here ... My father came here in I think it was 1920, bought some real estate in '21 when the family came here, but we still maintained the store in the South in Mississippi and once a month 14:00they'd go down there because they still maintained the home down there and the home here. And then we kept the store until about 1926.

Ken Chumley:

But did you come back to live?

Mrs. Benovitz:

I came back in 1923 and I came here between 21 and 23.

Ken Chumley:

I guess Carrollton, Mississippi was more home than Louisville?

Mrs. Benovitz:

It was to me because I was raised there and had so many friends there, but then I came here and married here. My husband was born and raised in Louisville.

Ken Chumley:

What do you remember about your husband's parents? Do you recall the same much about them?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes, my husband was the second child. His grandmother 15:00and grandfather were here, and his grandfather was dead before I was married into the family, but I knew his grandmother.

Ken Chumley:

And they were from Lithuania too?

Mrs. Benovitz:

They were from Lithuania too, but I don't know what part. I don't know what towns they came from, but they came, or what years they came, but I know they must have married in 1897 or 1898 or something like that because my husband was the second child.

Ken Chumley:

And you said that I guess your husband's parents had settled in St. Louis?

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, no. My father's parents settled in St. Louis.

Ken Chumley:

Okay, I'm getting this confused, yeah.

Mrs. Benovitz:

My husband's parents as far as I know, settled right in Louisville, right to 16:00start with.

Ken Chumley:

Did they live in the same area where you were born in Louisville?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well when I moved, they lived on Madison Street. I don't know where they lived before. I didn't know him until I moved back to Louisville in the 20's.

Ken Chumley:

What was your husband doing then? What kind of business?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well he was first in the insurance business when we married, and then he had a store ... We opened a store in New Albany, Indiana with a cousin of mine, Norman Evans.

Ken Chumley:

What kind of store was that in New Albany?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Dry goods, lady's and men's ready to wear.

Ken Chumley:

Was that a popular business for people to be in?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes, yes. We had a very nice business there, and we were there from ... We had the store there from '41 to '66.

Ken Chumley:

During the Depression, you were married, of course.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

I guess your husband was in the insurance business.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Insurance business.

Ken Chumley:

What was that like for you?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well we'd didn't suffer during the Depression. My husband was frightened because so many of his friends had lost their job, but we just tried to make ... Live like our friends were living, but we didn't suffer. I mean the Depression didn't affect us in any way.

Ken Chumley:

Why do you suppose you weren't as-

Mrs. Benovitz:

My husband was a go-getter and a worker and he always worked and he worked hard during the Depression, and we didn't suffer financially.

Ken Chumley:

Was the insurance business a good business to be in during the Depression?

Mrs. Benovitz:

I guess not.

Ken Chumley:

Or was there any business?

Mrs. Benovitz:

I don't know. I can't recall I mean suffering from the Depression.

Ken Chumley:

You always had enough.

Mrs. Benovitz:

We were never hungry, let's put it that way.

Ken Chumley:

Where were you living, down in the Market Street area?

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, not at all. We lived in [Avery 00:18:53] Court in the Sherman Apartments. We moved around quite a bit before we moved up in the highlands in '38, but in the 19:00heart of the Depression we were living down in that part of town.

Ken Chumley:

What do you remember about the early Jewish community? What are your earliest recollections of the community?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well when I moved in Louisville in 1923, my father was already a member of the Adath Jeshurun and as soon as we married, we became members of the Adath Jeshurun.

Ken Chumley:

Was that a large congregation then?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well, no. I don't know what the membership was, but I'm sure it wasn't very large. I don't think any of the congregations were very large then.

Ken Chumley:

Where was it located?

Mrs. Benovitz:

At Brook and College.

Ken Chumley:

Right near the Jewish area.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah. At that particular time we lived on Brook Street when I first came here at Brook and St. Catherine when I first came to Louisville.

Ken Chumley:

Was it an active congregation?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes, it was always very active and Rabbi Gilman was here. Rabbi Gilman was Rabbi there for over 50 years I think.

Ken Chumley:

What kinds of projects and activities was the synagogue involved in? Neighborhood House was it involved in the Neighborhood House or anything like that?

Mrs. Benovitz:

I don't know.

Ken Chumley:

Okay. Was your father very involved in the congregation?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes, very involved.

Ken Chumley:

Tell me a little bit about his involvement.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well my father was a scholar and he was called on all communities and all the advisory boards and being that he was retired when he came to Louisville ... He retired and not living too far away from the synagogue, he went quite often.

Ken Chumley:

You said he was a scholar.

Mrs. Benovitz:

I mean my father was a student. I never saw him without a book or without studying. I don't mean just a Hebrew book. I mean I never saw him that he was 22:00wasn't reading or studying doing something like that.

Ken Chumley:

Did he have a particular interest?

Mrs. Benovitz:

He once upon, before he left here, he was studying law, but when his father died he had to give that up. But he never quit studying, let's put it that way. He was a well-read man.

Ken Chumley:

I presume then that he emphasized learning to you?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes, he emphasized learning. Of course, we living in Mississippi didn't get much education that we would have if we have lived in the city.

Ken Chumley:

How many children were in your family? I failed to ask that.

Mrs. Benovitz:

There was five of us.

Ken Chumley:

Five of you.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Only two of us are living.

Ken Chumley:

That's a large family isn't it, or was it then?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well it was average I imagine.

Ken Chumley:

Did your father emphasize Hebrew learning?

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, he didn't stress it. He wasn't against it, but he would've liked, but I never studied Hebrew.

Ken Chumley:

Was Judaism emphasized in the home?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

Or were you-

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, Judaism was emphasized. We celebrated every holiday and every festival, everything in the home.

Ken Chumley:

Of course, there was no synagogue in Carrollton, Mississippi.

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, but we always celebrated. We always had ... When we got older, we went to the little down of Greenwood, which was closer to us on the Jewish holidays.

Ken Chumley:

You said that your father didn't emphasize Hebrew learning in the home, but-

Mrs. Benovitz:

Now my brothers had some Hebrew learning, but we were too young children to [inaudible 00:24:25] Hebrews, but my younger sister was born while we were living in Mississippi and I was too young to go to Hebrew school, so he taught my brothers as much Hebrew as he could, but you don't have time to teach everything.

Ken Chumley:

Yeah, true enough. True enough.

Mrs. Benovitz:

But we observed all the Jewish holidays and all the Jewish traditions.

Ken Chumley:

Was that because the traditions and all were such a part of-

Mrs. Benovitz:

Of his life.

Ken Chumley:

Of his life?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah.

Ken Chumley:

Would you say that your father was a "religious" man?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well I guess in a sense of the word. He never would've been a Rabbi, but he was a student. A student of the religious you know-

Ken Chumley:

Was he a person of faith would you say?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

A believer?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

Was that emphasized to you, and the other four children?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes. Yes, he was a believer and he wanted us to believe you know.

Ken Chumley:

Jumping back ahead here to the Jewish Community in Louisville, we were talking about your father and Adath Jeshurun and all. Your husband and you after you were married became a part of the congregation.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

Did you all take an active part in the life of the congregation?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well, I did for a while. I was active in the Sisterhood, and my husband was on the board at one time.

Ken Chumley:

Tell me a little bit about Sisterhood. I don't know much about that.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well we had a very active Sisterhood. It dated back many, many years, I don't know how long, and we had a very big Sisterhood. I don't know exactly what the numbers were.

Ken Chumley:

Were you involved in certain projects, raising money, and the like was the Sisterhood?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well, I was [inaudible 00:27:00] and out on our own, things like that. I was 27:00treasurer of the Sisterhood for about six years and other things. I was active I would say. I was part of the Sisterhood.

Ken Chumley:

What was the relationship of the reform and conservative elements? Was it a good relationship?

Mrs. Benovitz:

As far as I was concerned, it was very good, and I think that after the Holocaust it became excellent for everybody. I don't think-

Ken Chumley:

You were telling me that you thought the Holocaust had improved things.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes. You see the Reform Jews, more of them came from Germany and they weren't as 28:00close to the other Jews, but after the Holocaust the relationship got much better.

Ken Chumley:

Before though, I guess during the '20s, '30s-

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well I never felt it because I had friends on both sides.

Ken Chumley:

Yeah, were there any areas in which both cooperated?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well we had ... As long as I've lived in Louisville, they had the Thanksgiving service, the Reform and Adath Jeshurun had ... As long as I've lived in Louisville, they've had joined Thanksgiving services.

Ken Chumley:

Did you ever get the feeling ... Of course, you were Orthodox, correct? Or unorthodox?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Conservative.

Ken Chumley:

Conservative, I'm sorry. Did you ever feel as some have expressed to me that Reform Jews rather "looked down" on non-Reform Jews on conservatives?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well don't you think there's a certain class in every religion. Some of them other you know, but I never felt looked down on. I had friends as I said in both of them.

Ken Chumley:

Okay. What about during or just before the war, did you have any indication ... Did the Jewish Community have any indication of what was happening in Germany before the war began?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah. I talked about my father, I told you he was well-read and before Hitler 30:00came into power, my father was dead already. My father died in 1932, so they had a very old what was his name that was head of Germany then? Remember he was a very old man in his '80s.

Ken Chumley:

Hindenburg?

Mrs. Benovitz:

I forgot what his name was. Anyway he says, "We know what we've got, but all this Reich about Hitler, we better take notice of it." He had been reading about him before 1932, so felt that Hitler was not a friend to the Jews very, very early.

Ken Chumley:

Of course, other people didn't-

Mrs. Benovitz:

The other people no.

Ken Chumley:

-See that part of him.

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, no, no, but as I told you, my father did a lot of reading.

Ken Chumley:

During the '30s, '38, '39, '40.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well earlier than that. I know that I had a brother-in-law that came from Germany. He came here on a visit because his sister came here about 1935 or something. She already noticed trouble, and you were talking Arthur Kling. Arthur Kling's daughter-in-laws family came here in the early 30s too, they started feeling troubles.

Ken Chumley:

Did you talk with people other than your ... You mentioned someone, a relative, who had been in Germany.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well my brother-in-law was born there, but he came here on a visit. He had some relatives here. He was just about 16 or 18 years old and his sister remained in 32:00Germany and she came over about 1935 or 1934.

Ken Chumley:

Do you recall anything what they might have said about that?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well they felt that there was going to be trouble there, so that's why they came here, and the person that just called-

Ken Chumley:

Rose [Hanson 00:32:44] Hanson came from Germany?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes, she came I guess in the '30s, sometime in the '30s.

Ken Chumley:

What do you remember about I guess the time up to World War II when Hitler was 33:00invading Poland and taking France and, etc., etc., etc. Was there kind of panic do you think? Do you think a lot of Jews were thinking-

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well the ones that had relatives, they were worried about getting their families, but I didn't have any relatives over there. All my family ... Those that had relatives over there were trying hard to get their families.

Ken Chumley:

Do you suppose it easier for the Reform Jews to get their families out of-

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well they needed the help from the other Jews too. I know many of the other Jews signed up to bring, you know or sent money or contributed towards-

Ken Chumley:

Sponsored?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Sponsored different things. They needed the help of the other people.

Ken Chumley:

Did many of the immigrants from Europe settle in Louisville? Were there a lot of-

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well those that could be sponsored, I guess settled in Louisville, but imagine you would find out more of that from Alleram. Do you know Alleram?

Ken Chumley:

We've interviewed him, yeah.

Mrs. Benovitz:

He'd know more or Arthur Kling would know more of that, than I do. Those that were sponsored, they could be sponsored, but both have had close relatives.

Ken Chumley:

In 1941, you mentioned that your husband, and you went into business.

Mrs. Benovitz:

In New Albany.

Ken Chumley:

In New Albany in a store there.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

Tell me a little about that period from 1941 to 1966.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well we had a very profitable business. We went into business with this cousin 35:00of mine, Norman Evans, and he was already in business, and the store remained Evans Stores, and we stayed in business. Norman died early and so we stayed in business until our children grew up and see if they wanted the business, and they didn't, so we went out of the business.

Ken Chumley:

Did you work in the store with your husband?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

What did you do there, sales and just everything?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Just about anything. At first, I did buying and sewing and everything. After a while, in the store I wasn't needed as much. I just went a couple of days, but I would go wherever they needed me. If the cashier went off for lunch, I took her job and if one of the girls went for ... I just took over anywhere I was needed.

Ken Chumley:

When I talked with is it Evelyn Topsic -

Mrs. Benovitz:

Topsic, uh-huh (affirmative).

Ken Chumley:

Today, she mentioned that I guess your grandfather had formed a business sometime earlier 1900s or so, which is now called the Ohio Valley Bag.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Oh, that was her grandfather. That was my husband's father.

Ken Chumley:

Your husband's father.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

The Ohio Valley Bag & Burlap.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah, Bag & Burlap.

Ken Chumley:

Which still exists.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes. In fact, my husband's brother runs it, William Benovitz. That was on my husband's side of the family.

Ken Chumley:

How did that get started? Did-

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well that was started before I married into the family. My husband was never in it.

Ken Chumley:

Was he just ... Did he want to be independent and make it on his own, or?

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, I mean he started up ... I think it started, my husband was already a working member of the family, and my father-in-law started it up on a small scale, and my husband didn't every go into the business or anything. The other two ... Two of the other brothers were in there.

Ken Chumley:

And so your brother-in-law is involved in the business today?

Mrs. Benovitz:

He's the one that has the business now. He's the only one in it, William Benovitz.

Ken Chumley:

Mrs. Topsic also mentioned that at sometime or another, your husband had peddled papers in Jewish Hospital?

Mrs. Benovitz:

When he was a little boy, he started selling papers at the age of 10 years old. That's the reason he never went in the bag business. He was helping provide for 38:00the family. He sold ... They lived at Floyd and Madison, right next to the ... The City Hospital bought their house to enlarge the hospital and when he was a little boy at 10 years old, he used to sell papers there. That was before I met him.

Ken Chumley:

That was when he was in school, I guess?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah, he was a child.

Ken Chumley:

Did he finish his education?

Mrs. Benovitz:

He finished high school.

Ken Chumley:

Where did he go to high school?

Mrs. Benovitz:

He went here in Louisville.

Ken Chumley:

Male or-

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah, he want to Male.

Ken Chumley:

I guess he worked at various jobs while he was a student.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes, he worked always. He worked from when he was really ... As I told you why we didn't suffer during the Depression because he started working at 10 years old.

Ken Chumley:

I guess he always enjoyed his work too, huh?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well we had to.

Ken Chumley:

Had to. It wasn't a matter always I guess of enjoyment.

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, enjoying it, that's right and when he got older, he went from one job to another and finally went with the Metropolitan I think. I know he was with the Metropolitan when we married. That was in early 1920s.

Ken Chumley:

Metropolitan Insurance?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Life insurance and he was there until 1941 when we went into the store.

Ken Chumley:

And you all left that business in '66?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

Was it just getting to be more than you could handle, or did you just-

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, as I say, he held the business to see if his son or Mr. Evans' son wanted the business. They didn't, so he got out, and he went in with Master Charge. My husband and my son's father-in-law started Master Charge.

Ken Chumley:

Did they originate the idea?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yeah, here in Louisville and that grew, so the bank took it over, and my husband worked for the bank until he died. In fact, he was on his way home from work when he died.

Ken Chumley:

Master Charge is a big operation.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Oh, I know, it was too big for an individual to handle it, so the bank got it, First National Bank, and my husband worked with it until he died.

Ken Chumley:

Is there a Benovitz still working at First National?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes, my son.

Ken Chumley:

What is his name?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Melvin.

Ken Chumley:

Melvin. Is he with Master Charge?

Mrs. Benovitz:

He's with the bank, inner bank and Master Charge. Do you know him?

Ken Chumley:

I've heard that name, yeah. How many children did your husband, and you have?

Mrs. Benovitz:

We only have one, Melvin.

Ken Chumley:

One.

Mrs. Benovitz:

But he's married and has three children.

Ken Chumley:

Are they involved in the Jewish Community?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well go to Adath Jeshurun and their children go to Sunday school. He's a busy man making a living for his family, so he doesn't have much time for being involved in the synagogue, but he is a member.

Ken Chumley:

Yeah, do you think that Jews face a problem in being assimilated into American culture into losing their Jewish traditions and-

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well I think many traditions just like any other religion. I don't think that traditions have gone any farther than some of your other religions. They've all had to change some traditions, do you think so?

Ken Chumley:

Well do you think it's a question of change, or do you think it's just a question of losing the tradition or forgetting the tradition? Do you think that 42:00forgetting the tradition is a danger?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well I don't think they're going to forget all of them. I think there's some of them that'll stay with them. I don't think they're as involved as they were as far as you know, we've seen many things changing.

Ken Chumley:

There's a Reform rabbi who recently spoke about the need for Reform Jews to begin to share their faith with others who have no religion. In other words, there was a plea to become evangelical.

Mrs. Benovitz:

You mean here in Louisville?

Ken Chumley:

Not in Louisville, but there was an article in The Post an opinion recently.

Mrs. Benovitz:

I find that in our synagogue, Rabbi Kling, there are many Gentiles who wanted to 43:00convert to Judaism not because of intermarriage, but they have become ... And many of them have come in, and they have become very, very good Jewish members.

Ken Chumley:

Why do you think they became members?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well they just started studying, and they got interested.

Ken Chumley:

Became interested.

Mrs. Benovitz:

They became interested, and they just found that they liked the religion and there's quite a few. If you go to the services on Saturday morning, Friday night, you see quite a few. They were non-Jews, and I think people convert from one religion to another. We don't know why, but they find something in another religion.

Ken Chumley:

There's been talk too that intermarriage has become a problem for Jews because of Jews marrying non-Jews, Gentiles, the faith is beginning to wane. Do you 44:00regard that as a problem?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well in a sense of the word, we find ... Once upon a time if a Jew married a non-Jew, they became Christians altogether, whatever religion they joined, they left the Jewish faith, but now many of them that intermarriage, they convert the other way to Judaism. There was a wedding here just this week that the girl was non-Jewish, and the man was Jewish and they were married at the Temple and she's converting to Judaism. So I think we find it both ways now. Once upon a time it was only one way.

Ken Chumley:

Today you think that the community, the Jewish Community, is more of a community, more of a unified community?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes, I think it is, and I think people are beginning to understand Judaism 45:00better, and they study it more as a religion rather than as a minority or something.

Ken Chumley:

Do you think more people are interested in it?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes.

Ken Chumley:

Both Jew and Gentile?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Yes. I think many Gentiles are interested too.

Ken Chumley:

Do you think anti-Semitism is still a problem?

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well I think we'll always have anti-Semitism. I think as long as we have an organization like the Ku Klux Klan and those things, there always be anti-Semitism.

Ken Chumley:

Do you think there's a resurgence of anti-Semitism? I'm thinking about American neo-Nazism.

Mrs. Benovitz:

Well I think that ... I don't know if it's any worse, but I think that it's ... 46:00As long as you have leaders that are going to come out and try to convert the other fellow, we'll always have that trouble. Don't you think so in your religion too?

Ken Chumley:

Maybe, yeah.

Ken Chumley:

I have run out of questions. Do you have anything to add for the record?

Mrs. Benovitz:

No, only that I think Louisville is a very fine city because I don't feel any discrimination here.

Ken Chumley:

Never have?

Mrs. Benovitz:

No. I try to see both sides and try to understand both sides and moving into this building is the best, half and half Jews and Gentiles and everybody's very sociable and friendly. I don't feel any ... I don't feel down at all.

Ken Chumley:

I want to thank you for your time today. I enjoyed talking with you.

Mrs. Benovitz:

I enjoyed it too and I hope we can get something out of it.

Ken Chumley:

Thank you.